Warhammer - The Old World

[Sathrut]

1 hour ago, sandlemad said:

I dunno, it’s overpriced in the sense that everything by GW is overpriced but for comparison that heresy box has a little over half the miniatures of the tomb kings one. And a bunch of the tomb kings are cavalry and chariots.

Of course the issue is that this box is built around the chunky old Harryhausen skeletons…

In five years, said Skeleton Warriors will turn 30. I still think it's a crime GW never updated them at the same time they did Tomb Guard in 2011, and at this point it's clear GW must view the kit as perfection....despite updating it in 2008 for VC.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Sathrut

[Bosskelot]

Not updating the old core troops and focusing on useless giant monsters seems like the exact same issue that caused the old TK refresh to flop.

You'd have thought GW would have learned from 9th ed 40k that you need to update the core troops of a faction first otherwise people aren't going to buy into it.

[Beliman]

I'm not a fan of old sculpts, but I get the charm that they are trying to sell.

My main issue with TOW is that I'm not fan of the first 2 armies, and the rumor says te next two are going to be released summer 2024 (near AoS 4.0). Let's see what happens...

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, Bosskelot said:

Not updating the old core troops and focusing on useless giant monsters seems like the exact same issue that caused the old TK refresh to flop.

You'd have thought GW would have learned from 9th ed 40k that you need to update the core troops of a faction first otherwise people aren't going to buy into it.

My opinion exactly

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

I'm not a fan of old sculpts, but I get the charm that they are trying to sell.

I struggle to see it as anything but a cold-hearted business decision. Putting old kits back in production is free money in so far as it makes additional profit from molds that have already paid for themselves. I understand that reusing many old kits might have been a necessary thing to do to get the TOW project greenlit at all, but "Hey, look at all those nostalgic models" is just post-fact marketing spin, IMO.

[Ejecutor]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

I'm not a fan of old sculpts, but I get the charm that they are trying to sell.

My main issue with TOW is that I'm not fan of the first 2 armies, and the rumor says te next two are going to be released summer 2024 (near AoS 4.0). Let's see what happens...

Back in time when I was teenager I had High Elves. When I recently came back to hobby I would have picked Bretonia instead, or even Empire, but the CoS range is so much better... and the new Bretonian unit has 0 appeal to me. So I would pass.

Also the fact that the rules are not translated in my native language is a big downside to me.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Ejecutor

[Gotz]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I struggle to see it as anything but a cold-hearted business decision. Putting old kits back in production is free money in so far as it makes additional profit from molds that have already paid for themselves. I understand that reusing many old kits might have been a necessary thing to do to get the TOW project greenlit at all, but "Hey, look at all those nostalgic models" is just post-fact marketing spin, IMO.

totally agree, but its weird when gw tends to prioritise updating core troops when there is a range refresh.

[Flippy]

12 hours ago, Doko said:

yes for sure,i am one of those,i would like start a wood elf army(so i have a excuse to start sylvaneths also with kurnoth hunters as the treekin and durthu as durthu etc) but now i gonna wait for when wood elfs get their turn.

Would you really settle for a big box of this?

[Ogregut]

13 minutes ago, Flippy said:

Would you really settle for a big box of this?

Wouldn't be those but these glade guard 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

18 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

Wouldn't be those but these glade guard 

I think @Flippy's post was a jab at the age of the Tomb Kings skeleton kits. It's actually my criticism of the TK and Bretonnia relaunch, specifically: Those two factions desparately need updated plastic kits. Other factions that will be making their return (High Elves, Wood Elves, Orcs and Goblins...) are much better off in that regard. Many Fantasy models still hold up. It's just that TKs and Bretonnia are largely not among that group.

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

37 minutes ago, Flippy said:

Would you really settle for a big box of this?

NGL - yes. I'm getting back into TOW *because* of the doofy models. They're a low-pressure, nostalgia-laden painting experience and I'm having so much fun redoing my old Orcs right now.

That said, I recognize that a lot of people have some really valid criticisms of that old Skeletons kit, especially when it comes to building TK variants and not having enough parts to do so.

Edited December 15, 2023 by acr0ssth3p0nd

[madmac]

38 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

Wouldn't be those but these glade guard 

As someone who bought a box of Glade Guard I wouldn't want those either, rough kit, felt like the mold was slipping, plus the proportions were terrible.

I'll agree though that in a general sense, GW isn't releasing anything for ToW that's even slightly tempting me to get me on board. I don't hate brettonia as a faction but the new CoS range is just so much better, why would I ever buy a box of lego horses?

[Davariel]

It's funny to think that those old skeletons put my friends and I off starting Tomb Kings over a decade ago.

I don't mind old models but some definitely age better than others.

[Sathrut]

Seeing the reaction to the leaked box got me thinking. We've already seen GW are not averse to bringing back old models for miniatures that already have a plastic version (treeman), but how would they handle VC and Lizardmen? Bring back the kits that got updated in AoS? Skeleton Warriors, Dire Wolves, Zombies, Fell Bats, Black Coach, Blood Knights, Saurus Warriors, Kroxigor, Slaan Mage Priest?

 

[Clan's Cynic]

I can't help but feel like if they did immediately drop brand spanking new Skeletons, the reaction would instead be, "GW DESTROYS players old collections!!! TOW is a MONEYGRAB! New Skeletons are HOW MUCH??? DEAD ON ARRIVAL?!"

I recall a lot of muttering that "TOW will make you rebuy entirely new armies! Damn you GW!" initially, so it's kind of funny to see that flip to "TOW is making you buy old models??? Damn you GW!" years later.

That post on WarCom about units like Peasant Archers coming in boxes of 32 does give me a tiny bit of optimism they'll be 'competitively' priced. Obviously GW is adverse to actually lowing prices, but the way they seem to get around that is by bundling more bodies in the box before setting the price. The new Mark III Tacticals being 20 for £45 surprised a lot of people, so hopefully we see something similar here (a lot of models in a box for a decent price, even if I doubt it'll be 'cheap').

Edited December 15, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

17 minutes ago, Sathrut said:

Seeing the reaction to the leaked box got me thinking. We've already seen GW are not averse to bringing back old models for miniatures that already have a plastic version (treeman), but how would they handle VC and Lizardmen? Bring back the kits that got updated in AoS? Skeleton Warriors, Dire Wolves, Zombies, Fell Bats, Black Coach, Blood Knights, Saurus Warriors, Kroxigor, Slaan Mage Priest?

 

For now they are part of the "unsupported" factions. As far as I understand that means they will get downloadable rules, but will not be supplied miniatures through GW and will not be part of the narrative. I think that means those factions need to just make do with AoS models or ebay. What happens in the future is anyone's guess.

6 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I can't help but feel like if they did immediately drop brand spanking new Skeletons, the reaction would instead be, "GW DESTROYS players old collections!!! TOW is a MONEYGRAB! New Skeletons are HOW MUCH??? DEAD ON ARRIVAL?!"

I recall a lot of muttering that "TOW will make you rebuy entirely new armies! Damn you GW!" initially, so it's kind of funny to see that flip to "TOW is making you buy old models??? Damn you GW!" years later.

IMO anyone who pretends to get upset the idea of resculpts for TOW is just still upset about the End Times. That is a real character type that is out there, though. Quite a few "never GW, never again" posters out there.

[Clan's Cynic]

6 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

IMO anyone who pretends to get upset the idea of resculpts for TOW is just still upset about the End Times. That is a real character type that is out there, though. Quite a few "never GW, never again" posters out there.

I think there's just always people who get upset about resculpts regardless of game. The new Deathwing Terminators for instance, haven't escaped that despite the reaction generally being positive. 

Chances are they'll probably still buy them anyway, even as they grumble. It was funny seeing a lot of the people bemoaning beakies as the posterboys for Horus Heresy 2.0 still buy the box which contained 40 of them...

[KingKull]

2 hours ago, Ogregut said:

Wouldn't be those but these glade guard 

I would buy dozens of these (again, as I sadly sold my WE army years ago) in a heartbeat. Same goes for glade riders (and even 6th ed eternal guard & wild riders, which I like infinitely more than 8th ed resculpts).

[Ejecutor]

3 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I think @Flippy's post was a jab at the age of the Tomb Kings skeleton kits. It's actually my criticism of the TK and Bretonnia relaunch, specifically: Those two factions desparately need updated plastic kits. Other factions that will be making their return (High Elves, Wood Elves, Orcs and Goblins...) are much better off in that regard. Many Fantasy models still hold up. It's just that TKs and Bretonnia are largely not among that group.

Maybe they have ready some refreshes to be released in between the launch and the Empire vs Orcs boxes.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

4 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Maybe they have ready some refreshes to be released in between the launch and the Empire vs Orcs boxes.

I doubt it, but also that seems like the worst of both worlds: First rerelease the old kits, and then obsolete them right after.

[Ejecutor]

7 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I doubt it, but also that seems like the worst of both worlds: First rerelease the old kits, and then obsolete them right after.

Also I am waiting to see those rumoured mummies. The new knights kit are in the middle between a new sculpt and an old sculpt, for me. They just look weird, kinda cartoony. So I am not sure if I want more new sculpted units if they look like that... 😅

[Sathrut]

24 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

For now they are part of the "unsupported" factions. As far as I understand that means they will get downloadable rules, but will not be supplied miniatures through GW and will not be part of the narrative. I think that means those factions need to just make do with AoS models or ebay. What happens in the future is anyone's guess.

Yeah, it was more a wondering how they would handle a hypothetical return if TOW succeeds. I do wonder if the base size change occured not just because of ranking issues for returning kits, but a silent acknowledgement of letting people use AoS models in TOW.

 

44 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I can't help but feel like if they did immediately drop brand spanking new Skeletons, the reaction would instead be, "GW DESTROYS players old collections!!! TOW is a MONEYGRAB! New Skeletons are HOW MUCH??? DEAD ON ARRIVAL?!"

I recall a lot of muttering that "TOW will make you rebuy entirely new armies! Damn you GW!" initially, so it's kind of funny to see that flip to "TOW is making you buy old models??? Damn you GW!" years later.

That post on WarCom about units like Peasant Archers coming in boxes of 32 does give me a tiny bit of optimism they'll be 'competitively' priced. Obviously GW is adverse to actually lowing prices, but the way they seem to get around that is by bundling more bodies in the box before setting the price. The new Mark III Tacticals being 20 for £45 surprised a lot of people, so hopefully we see something similar here (a lot of models in a box for a decent price, even if I doubt it'll be 'cheap').

Oh, absolutely. That kind of reaction seems to come from trolls, and those too bitter to move on.

I've seen people expressing their disappointment that they haven't updated the TK core, and the response has been some variation of "If you don't like the old minis, shut up and deal with it/GW has brought Fantasy back! They said it would be old kits with some new, why are you complaining/why did you expect otherwise?"

By now I've seen a number of people saying the core units were what put them off collecting TK while Fantasy was alive. They were hoping for updated core units, but their plans to start have been shelved again once they saw it was the same kits.

It'll be interesting to see how TK/Bret fare once the initial hype has died, considering both lines will primarily consist of 20+ year old kits.

 

[Jator]

6 hours ago, Flippy said:

Would you really settle for a big box of this?

I will do it if they were Chaos Dwarfs.

[Ejecutor]

23 hours ago, sandlemad said:

Dragon 

Tomb king

40 spearmen

32 archers

16 light/heavy cavalry

3 chariots

Been a while since GW made a box this big, at least for a non-starter kit.

How would you say those units are packed?

They said a unit of bretonian archers would be 32 archers + spikes, so presumably we have 1 Spearmen unit, 1 Archers unit, 1 Cavalry unit and 1 Chariots unit + the dragon?

[TaeRam]

Games Workshop should be ashamed for putting these skeletons on sale