Warhammer - The Old World

[Noserenda]

Thats a very good point, theyve been running a disappointment engine the last few years, we shouldnt really take all these pictures of minis imply they will be released any time soon given their older nature, we could be looking at the first year or two's releases after all.

Which is what was bugging me about the release, much much more miniatures than i was expecting and a squidge less rules, like, rules are far and away more elastic (and cheap!) than miniature production so i would really rather have expected the opposite, rules for everyone and fairly limited model support out the gate that fills out over the first year of so for the core factions and then maybe look at the rest or new armies down the line.

Though i probably would have done one entirely new line (in the core box) to gauge interest from veterans as y'know most of us still have a couple of fantasy armies or could rebase (or buy and rebase!) an AoS one which gives them no sales indication at all aside from maybe the sales of new bases?

[silverstu]

Yeah it certainly looks like a degree of caution with the [initial] restricted number of factions. But clearly they want it to succeed so it will be a balancing act between not over extending themselves but giving it enough resources to generate and sustain interest. Since bloodbowl/necromunda/Heresy/titanicus have enjoyed plastic kits I think we can hope for a reasonable amount. I have my dwarf army and I'm always looking to expand them with nice models but Wood elves were always intriguing- I could be tempted, especially if they did plastic wardancers. 

That basing video makes a lot of sense - I looked at one of my plastic iron breakers yesterday and he looks so squished on his base. Since I don't play much [except 40k recently] I really enjoy the hobby side and basing is one of my favourite bits of styling an army/model so larger bases are win. Yes it will be a pain to rebase but movement trays in the new sizes will work very well as a quick upgraded also make shifting big units about so much easier.

Interesting that they have mentioned models coming back in metal as well as plastic and resin..some classics in metal could be awesome. 

[Tervindar]

For some wild speculation, if the box does turn out to be Tomb Kings vs Brettonia, what do you think will be part of that launch box? 

On the brettonia side, I could see that new paladin, 10-20 bowmen, 10-20 men at arms, 5-10 knights of the realm? 

[Clan's Cynic]

[Twisted Firaun]

2 hours ago, Tervindar said:

For some wild speculation, if the box does turn out to be Tomb Kings vs Brettonia, what do you think will be part of that launch box? 

On the brettonia side, I could see that new paladin, 10-20 bowmen, 10-20 men at arms, 5-10 knights of the realm? 

Seeing as GW has previewed weapons for Tomb Guard and a Liche Priest’s staff, my money is on 10-20 Tomb Guard, a new unit of skeletal warriors, a Tomb King/Prince, and the GLORY OF LONG LOST NEHEKHARA!!!!

[Marcvs]

2 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

[insert confused lady doing math meme] ==> me trying to figure out the percentages resulting from "most armies", "predominantly", "some", and "also".

[The Brotherhood of Necros]

Just now, Marcvs said:

[insert confused lady doing math meme] ==> me trying to figure out the percentages resulting from "most armies", "predominantly", "some", and "also".

Don’t forget “a whole load”! 

[RyantheFett]

3 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Sooooooooooooooo I feel like they wanted to say something positive, but it came out as "don't worry guys not everything is old resin! We got some metal models mixed in as well!!!!!"

[Clan's Cynic]

1 minute ago, RyantheFett said:

Sooooooooooooooo I feel like they wanted to say something positive, but it came out as "don't worry guys not everything is old resin! We got some metal models mixed in as well!!!!!"

Considering the doomsaying that "TOW will be almost entirely overpriced FW resin!" which was being propagated, it at least nips that one in the bud. 

[Marcvs]

1 hour ago, RyantheFett said:

Sooooooooooooooo I feel like they wanted to say something positive, but it came out as "don't worry guys not everything is old resin! We got some metal models mixed in as well!!!!!"

Honestly when it comes to returning kits, metal (wood elves) models are the ones I am most looking forward to

[silverstu]

6 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Honestly when it comes to returning kits, metal (wood elves) models are the ones I am most looking forward to

Yep! Metal dwarfs as well, but especially the wood elf heroes!

[novakai]

21 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Considering the doomsaying that "TOW will be almost entirely overpriced FW resin!" which was being propagated, it at least nips that one in the bud. 

i mean the percentage of FW and plastic can be scewed like pre-HH to still be a lot of resin though

[MitGas]

You know, just thought about something.... if TOW is set in Magnus'/Asavar Kul's time, then we could get an Engra Deathsword mini. That would be rad.

[The Brotherhood of Necros]

I’d love to see future campaigns focus around:

1) DE/Lizardmen/Skaven/VC (that’s Vampire Coast!)/Dogs of War or Estalia

2) Cathay/Ogre Kingdoms/Chaos Dwarfs/Daemons of Chaos 

It will be interesting to see if they just keep gradually progressing the timeline forward from where they are now or if they jump between different historical chapters.

[Clan's Cynic]

If Horus Heresy is any indication I'd not be surprised if they jumped back and forth around the timeline. The first campaign supplement for HH 2.0 has been Siege of Cthonia which takes place co-currently with the Siege of Terra, so they'll have to jump back in time for any future books not set on Terra.

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[Chikout]

1 hour ago, Clan's Cynic said:

If Horus Heresy is any indication I'd not be surprised if they jumped back and forth around the timeline. The first campaign supplement for HH 2.0 has been Siege of Cthonia which takes place co-currently with the Siege of Terra, so they'll have to jump back in time for any future books not set on Terra.

 

That might be what happens but that's not how they are framing it. They have said several times that the story of THE GAME is one 30 year period of history.

Here's the direct quote.

"The game will be set firmly within the Old World itself – the lands between the coast of Bretonnia to the west and the Worlds Edge Mountains to the east – during the decades immediately before the Great War Against Chaos and the Siege of Praag."

If there is a change of time period it looks like it will come with a second edition at the earliest. Also any of the non core factions would have to wait for a hypothetical second edition to get any attention. 

[Clan's Cynic]

9 minutes ago, Chikout said:

That might be what happens but that's not how they are framing it. They have said several times that the story of THE GAME is one 30 year period of history.

Here's the direct quote.

If there is a change of time period it looks like it will come with a second edition at the earliest. Also any of the non core factions would have to wait for a hypothetical second edition to get any attention. 

If GW/FW think they can sell Magnus the Pious and Asavar Kul models I'm sure they won't mind nudging things forward.  Although I'd expect they'll cover New World/Far East before then... maybe. 

[The Lost Sigmarite]

I was asking myself the question : how is the return of the Old World affect the other rank and flank wargames out there in the market ? Especially the ones that drew the most inspiration from WFB and benefited the most from its dissapearance (by drawing a lot of ex WFB players) : KoW and 9th Age. 

[Twisted Firaun]

54 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

I was asking myself the question : how is the return of the Old World affect the other rank and flank wargames out there in the market ? Especially the ones that drew the most inspiration from WFB and benefited the most from its dissapearance (by drawing a lot of ex WFB players) : KoW and 9th Age. 

Probably depends on the mixture of new and old miniatures GW releases, as well as the rulebook of course.

[Jator]

1 hour ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

I was asking myself the question : how is the return of the Old World affect the other rank and flank wargames out there in the market ? Especially the ones that drew the most inspiration from WFB and benefited the most from its dissapearance (by drawing a lot of ex WFB players) : KoW and 9th Age. 

  I'd say it would be good for KoW but bad for Mantic (So, bad for KoW in the long run?). There's  always been lots of people playing with GW's miniatures, and now they'd have a bigger selection to buy from.
 
 
 

[Clan's Cynic]

On 6/17/2023 at 6:46 PM, The Lost Sigmarite said:

I was asking myself the question : how is the return of the Old World affect the other rank and flank wargames out there in the market ? Especially the ones that drew the most inspiration from WFB and benefited the most from its dissapearance (by drawing a lot of ex WFB players) : KoW and 9th Age. 

I think 9th Age will be dead and buried since it's entire pitch was "Warhammer Fantasy now GW has dropped it.". Warhammer Armies Project seems to have largely replaced it anyway, at least from what I've seen. 

Kings of War I think will hurt, but I don't think it will be outright replaced. Most people already used their Fantasy collections with it, so in that respect not much will change. KoW now has enough 'original' armies with models GW don't sell an equivalent to (Halflings, Northern Alliance, etc) to still do fine there.

I think they'll lose some people to the "officialdom" of Games Workshop, even if TOW's writing ends up being far weaker than Mantics, but it existed before The End Times and will probably do so after - longterm it may actually benefit from people becoming disenfranchised from GW but still wanting to use their model, whereas right now you're kind of stuck if you hate Mantic's sculpts but want Fantasy models which have since gone OOP.

Conquest: The Last Argument of Kings I think is living on borrowed time. I love the lore, I love the game, I really like most of the models, but I think their death will be in pricing themselves close to GW's offerings with models which aren't very agnostic.  Now GW is back in the game, almost all potential 'newblood' to rank-and-file games will remain with TOW, rather than potentially finding a game like Conquest, which will hurt them long term.

A Song of Ice & Fire I think is different enough that it will do fine, as it's unique enough to stand on it's own merits. It has a strong IP behind it, a lot of board game newblood from the CMON branding and has a good reputation for a relatively competitive community. Plus it's just a fun game which is inexpensive to get into.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[The Lost Sigmarite]

1 minute ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I think 9th Age will be dead and buried since it's entire pitch was "Warhammer Fantasy now GW has dropped it."

I had heard that 9th was already in decline years ago because of terrible internal balance. From what I've heard, they let the community participate in balancing, which prompted every army main to try to buff their favourite faction and create a big mess of powercreep and broken balance. 

3 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Kings of War I think will hurt, but I don't think it will be outright replaced. Most people already used their Fantasy collections with it, so in that respect not much will change. KoW now has enough 'original' armies with models GW don't sell an equivalent to (Halflings, Northern Alliance, etc) to still do fine there.

I do think this is what will save Mantic. They didn't go all in on the Warhammer copycat train (yeah they have copycat armies like "Abyssal Dwarfs" or """Ratkin""") but they have enough unique concepts (Basileans, Trident Realm, Northern Alliance, Nightstalkers...) to stand on their own. And I do think the unique KoW armies are the best part of what Mantic does anyway. Good for them and their players if their game continues to move along as years go by.

6 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Conquest: The Last Argument of Kings I think is living on borrowed time. I love the lore, I love the game, I really like most of the models, but I think their death will be in pricing themselves close to GW's offerings.

This is the statement that shocked me the most. Conquest has shown a lot that it was super ambitious, with 10 factions planned, dozens more being thought about, Allessio Cavatore being at the helm... It looked like the game was making headway, even if here in France I have yet to see a Conquest player (apparently it's "big-ish" in the UK and in Singapore from what I've been told). I know some people that tried to convert me to Conquest, but they weren't members of the local wargaming community, and it always boiled down to this : Conquest has great minis, I trust them when they say the rules are great, and that the lore is good, but it's as expensive as Warhammer but with a community that's 1000s of time tinier. That's the ultimate crux of the problem : big prices, but small playerbase. 

13 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

A Song of Ice & Fire I think is different enough that it will do fine, as it's unique enough to stand on it's own merits. It has a strong IP behind it, a lot of board game newblood from the CMON branding and has a good reputation for a relatively competitive community. 

I got my neighbour into wargaming with an ASOIAF starter. He comes from a D&D background, and it's the IP that attracted him. And we have found a circle of fellow players were I live. I think that's a great sign that the game is and will be fine. 

In conclusion, I find it funny that whatever happens, Warhammer will always be a big part of wargaming. Every game that tried to be the next WFB never really took its place, or just deviated from that to become its own. And it's ultimately what keeps them afloat and thriving. It's a bit like what WoW is to MMOs. There's been a lot of annouced "WoW killers", none really succeeded. I feel the same is true for Warhammer.

[cyrus]

In the latest video youtuber rumors monger Valrak says the old world launch box Bretonnia vs Tomb kings is coming at the end of year ( November/December)

Early 2024 they will start to release army books/index 

Edited June 20, 2023 by cyrus
Grammar

[Beliman]

5 minutes ago, cyrus said:

In the latest video youtuber rumors monger Valrak says the old world launc box Bretonnia vs Tomb kings is coming at the end of year ( November/December)

Early 2024 they will start to release army books/index 

That's exactly the same rumor that was floating around 2 months ago.

[cyrus]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

That's exactly the same rumor that was floating around 2 months ago.

Yes , it is basically the same rumors making the round but it is reasonable.

At this point for the launch box I am expecting something similar to Battle for Osgiliath box set : returning classic miniatures and new plastic heroes for both factions.

Spoiler