AoS 2 - Ogor Mawtribe Discussion

[PainfullyMediocre]

14 hours ago, HostilSpike said:

So with our Battalions gone, I can't help but wonder what the point of a Huskard on Stonehorn is now. They really should make it a Priest to give it a purpose

Finest Hour and the ability to issue commands to himself? I'd like it if it got the Priest keyword, but then it would make Thundertusks totally redundant.

[Wazzuli]

Am I crazy or (outside of Ironguts) are Maneaters going to be our new saviors(for Gutbuster forces)  3 man unit, rend, and you can give then a free ability for 180? points. Mostly based of coherence rules buy seems like a steal!

[Schauer]

4 hours ago, Wazzuli said:

Am I crazy or (outside of Ironguts) are Maneaters going to be our new saviors(for Gutbuster forces)  3 man unit, rend, and you can give then a free ability for 180? points. Mostly based of coherence rules buy seems like a steal!

I love them personally with the new point costs. 

 

If you go with a gutbusters general you could feasibly get your cheap battleline with 3 x 4 Leadbelchers for 540 PTS vs 3x6 Gluttons at 780 pts. Then fill out the list with some maneaters and a couple auxiliary pieces and you're cooking. Im not sure if its enough yet to put them on equal footing with the BCR part of the ogor armies but they see soo little play that who knows really what they offer in games

[Beastmaster]

Will Frostsabers still be battleline with a Hunter general?

[Wazzuli]

@Beastmasterthey are! @SchauerI sold all my BCR and then Mawtribes came out lol. I love my Gutbusters though so I'll make it work lol. I'll let you know if I get a game in how they do! 

[Lord Krungharr]

20 hours ago, PainfullyMediocre said:

Finest Hour and the ability to issue commands to himself? I'd like it if it got the Priest keyword, but then it would make Thundertusks totally redundant.

The HoSH is good if you have Mournfangs.  The extra damage on the charge is pretty nice, and with an All Out Attack, those tusks get scary.  And even at a reinforced unit of 4 they still only need 1" of coherency.  

[Oldhat]

Here is what I am brainstorming currently and I am a total noob so it could be awful, but it is essentially what I own at the moment.

Underguts

Grand Battery
Butcher
3x Ironblasters

Vanguard
Tyrant
(6) Gluttons
(6) Gluttons
(4) Ironguts

Battle Regiment
Butcher
(4) Leadbelchers
(4) Leadbelchers

Suffocating Gravetide
Mawpot

Vanguard for the freebie movement boost. Battery because Ironblasters. Leadbelchers drop with the Butcher probably last to ensure they can be in the best position to support via Unleash Hell as they move up the board. Gravetide because it can go in front of a unit and I had some leftover points because listbuilding with Ogors is extra tough. Not a lot of wiggle room. 

Thoughts on that for someone trying to jump into AoS 3?

Edited June 22, 2021 by Oldhat

[Kadeton]

3 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

The HoSH is good if you have Mournfangs.  The extra damage on the charge is pretty nice, and with an All Out Attack, those tusks get scary.  And even at a reinforced unit of 4 they still only need 1" of coherency.  

I've used that command ability maybe once or twice in the last twenty games, just either wasn't in position to use it (spread thin across objectives) or couldn't spare the CP. Given we've got a lot more CP available now, yeah - it could definitely do some work. Gotta make up for all the damage the Mournfangs lost when the Eurlbad went away somehow...

[Schauer]

5 hours ago, Kadeton said:

I've used that command ability maybe once or twice in the last twenty games, just either wasn't in position to use it (spread thin across objectives) or couldn't spare the CP. Given we've got a lot more CP available now, yeah - it could definitely do some work. Gotta make up for all the damage the Mournfangs lost when the Eurlbad went away somehow...

All-Out Attack is different now right? This one just adds +1 to hit vs rerolling 1s. Makes those 3 damage tusks a bit more reliable as a 3/4 rather than a 4/4

Edited June 22, 2021 by Schauer

[Ganigumo]

7 hours ago, Oldhat said:

Here is what I am brainstorming currently and I am a total noob so it could be awful, but it is essentially what I own at the moment.

Underguts

Grand Battery
Butcher
3x Ironblasters

Vanguard
Tyrant
(6) Gluttons
(6) Gluttons
(4) Ironguts

Battle Regiment
Butcher
(4) Leadbelchers
(4) Leadbelchers

Suffocating Gravetide
Mawpot

Vanguard for the freebie movement boost. Battery because Ironblasters. Leadbelchers drop with the Butcher probably last to ensure they can be in the best position to support via Unleash Hell as they move up the board. Gravetide because it can go in front of a unit and I had some leftover points because listbuilding with Ogors is extra tough. Not a lot of wiggle room. 

Thoughts on that for someone trying to jump into AoS 3?

An extra artifact for the gruesome trophy rack on the tyrant could help, but you need to run 3 heroes in a single battalion to get access to it, which is a pretty heavy tax for ogors since our heroes are pretty expensive.

[GrogTheGrognard]

8 hours ago, Oldhat said:

Here is what I am brainstorming currently and I am a total noob so it could be awful, but it is essentially what I own at the moment.

Underguts

Grand Battery
Butcher
3x Ironblasters

Vanguard
Tyrant
(6) Gluttons
(6) Gluttons
(4) Ironguts

Battle Regiment
Butcher
(4) Leadbelchers
(4) Leadbelchers

Suffocating Gravetide
Mawpot

Vanguard for the freebie movement boost. Battery because Ironblasters. Leadbelchers drop with the Butcher probably last to ensure they can be in the best position to support via Unleash Hell as they move up the board. Gravetide because it can go in front of a unit and I had some leftover points because listbuilding with Ogors is extra tough. Not a lot of wiggle room. 

Thoughts on that for someone trying to jump into AoS 3?

Personally I'd drop the 2 units of 6 gluttons because with the new coherency rules it's very hard for them to all get their attacks, and they aren't in large enough units to get the buffed ogre charge. Instead replacing the gluttons with two units of 4 leadbelchers saves you enough points to get another ironblaster in the battle regiment so you can max out on your Underguts command ability. If you don't have another ironblaster I'd just replace the gluttons with 2 units of 4 ironguts since the ironguts can fight in small square formations and still get all their main attacks with their 2" reach. That being said I do think the list looks good for AoS 3 I just feel the gluttons have lost some of their usefulness with the new coherency rules.

[Kadeton]

1 hour ago, Schauer said:

All-Out Attack is different now right? This one just adds +1 to hit vs rerolling 1s. Makes those 3 damage tusks a bit more reliable as a 3/4 rather than a 4/4

Absolutely. +1 to hit is huge for us. +1 to our already solid saves is also very nice!

It's worth noting that a unit can only receive one Command in each phase. Since both All-Out Attack and Line-Breakers are both used in the combat phase, you can't stack them on the same unit. So you'll have to choose between 3+/3+/-1/2 (with +1 to hit for all the Ogor attacks as well) and 4+/3+/-1/3. I think All-Out Attack is clearly better, so you'd only be using Line-Breakers if there's a better target for All-Out Attack (which I guess there almost certainly is, like any Stonehorn).

[Schauer]

38 minutes ago, Kadeton said:

Absolutely. +1 to hit is huge for us. +1 to our already solid saves is also very nice!

It's worth noting that a unit can only receive one Command in each phase. Since both All-Out Attack and Line-Breakers are both used in the combat phase, you can't stack them on the same unit. So you'll have to choose between 3+/3+/-1/2 (with +1 to hit for all the Ogor attacks as well) and 4+/3+/-1/3. I think All-Out Attack is clearly better, so you'd only be using Line-Breakers if there's a better target for All-Out Attack (which I guess there almost certainly is, like any Stonehorn).

Now that you mention it too with that +1 to hit it may now actually be feasible to run Gargant Hackers now since a bit of their unreliability is fixed with all out attack. If you combo with bloodfeast you are then left with 11 inch move ironguts that have a better "Gulping bite" in the form of the mournfang tusk. 

 

Very interesting prospects here, might need to pick up a few more of them to try this out!

[Oldhat]

4 hours ago, GrogTheGrognard said:

Personally I'd drop the 2 units of 6 gluttons because with the new coherency rules it's very hard for them to all get their attacks, and they aren't in large enough units to get the buffed ogre charge. Instead replacing the gluttons with two units of 4 leadbelchers saves you enough points to get another ironblaster in the battle regiment so you can max out on your Underguts command ability. If you don't have another ironblaster I'd just replace the gluttons with 2 units of 4 ironguts since the ironguts can fight in small square formations and still get all their main attacks with their 2" reach. That being said I do think the list looks good for AoS 3 I just feel the gluttons have lost some of their usefulness with the new coherency rules.

Working within model constraints, I think I can drop one unit of Gluttons for a unit of four Ironguts, which then let's me grab Soulscream Bridge (which I have done thematically as my dudes tunnelling). That puts me at 2k on the nose. I think I'll start there and see how it shakes out. 

[GrogTheGrognard]

41 minutes ago, Oldhat said:

Working within model constraints, I think I can drop one unit of Gluttons for a unit of four Ironguts, which then let's me grab Soulscream Bridge (which I have done thematically as my dudes tunnelling). That puts me at 2k on the nose. I think I'll start there and see how it shakes out. 

Alright, allow me to wish you luck with your list, and let us know how it goes!

[Lord Krungharr]

4 hours ago, Schauer said:

Now that you mention it too with that +1 to hit it may now actually be feasible to run Gargant Hackers now since a bit of their unreliability is fixed with all out attack. If you combo with bloodfeast you are then left with 11 inch move ironguts that have a better "Gulping bite" in the form of the mournfang tusk. 

 

Very interesting prospects here, might need to pick up a few more of them to try this out!

Only 2 attacks on the Gargant Hackers though, but yeah those tusks certainly help make up for it on the charge.  Hmmm, all my Mournfangs have clubs cuz of the ol' Eurlbad.  Dang it.

[peasant]

I love the idea of going maneaters heavy

[Pariah255]

Mournfang discussion: 

I feel that Mournfangs are sort of struggling for identity in a BCR force right now. But, I think they have a forgotten function in the form of their Clubs/Hackers and Fists loadout. With AoS 3 only really allowing one or two big horde units on the table, I feel like the Spikefist has an underrated form of utility, where you can just charge your Mournfang into your opponents one (maybe two) horde unit(s), and wait for them to swing with it. Granted, bouncing a wound back on 6s to save is NOT (Repeating: NOT) a good plan for a unit, but its probably better than letting your 430 point FLoSH get bogged down by a unit of Clanrats or Marauders. I wonder if they aren't just a speedbump for our opponents to deal with.  I've had a good long think about it and I cannot seem to grasp how to best utilize them. Let me know where the hive mind is at. Cheers!

[LoonKing98]

Had my first 3E game with Gutbusters a couple days ago, and Gluttons are as neutered as I thought they were going to be. Even in the min squad of six, I never had more than three-maybe four if I piled in tactically- fight at a time, and I had to sacrifice attacks repeatedly to kept coherency. Until a battletome comes out justifying their inclusion, I will probably run exclusively Ironguts and Leadbelchers from now on. Which is a shame, as buffed up Gluttons were always a joy to charge across the field, but now they are so limited in their damage potential that I just cant justify bringing them when Ironguts are around the same price. 

[Kadeton]

5 hours ago, Pariah255 said:

With AoS 3 only really allowing one or two big horde units on the table, I feel like the Spikefist has an underrated form of utility, where you can just charge your Mournfang into your opponents one (maybe two) horde unit(s), and wait for them to swing with it. Granted, bouncing a wound back on 6s to save is NOT (Repeating: NOT) a good plan for a unit, but its probably better than letting your 430 point FLoSH get bogged down by a unit of Clanrats or Marauders. I wonder if they aren't just a speedbump for our opponents to deal with.

I've certainly used Mournfangs with ironfists against glass-cannon melee units in this way - they often die, but they bounce back enough damage to cripple the enemy in the process. They're the least useful things in my list, so I don't mind throwing them away.

In AoS3, I think they'll make a great tarpit if that's what you need them to do. Throw All-Out Defense on them, and you've got 24 wounds with a 3+ save that bounce mortals on a 6 - that's not easy for anything but the scariest combat units to deal with. They'll certainly tie up most hordes for a significant portion of the game, and put out quite a bit of damage in the process (if your Stonehorns don't arrive to wipe the horde out first).

Mine are modeled with gargant hackers, so I'm quite keen to see if those can work well in the new edition (I proxied them as club & fist most of the time in 2nd). The extra rend and reach are potentially very relevant.

[Charleston]

I wonder why people dislike Mournfangs so much? While loosing the Battalion in Matched no longer allows fishing for MW's, they got with "All out attack" a huge buff to their reliability (Hitting on 4+ is a damned joke). Where they hit by some points increases? 

Btw the Husskard CA is also a neat buff to Mournfangs which also syngergizes well with the All out Attack.

[Laststand]

16 minutes ago, Charleston said:

I wonder why people dislike Mournfangs so much? While loosing the Battalion in Matched no longer allows fishing for MW's, they got with "All out attack" a huge buff to their reliability (Hitting on 4+ is a damned joke). Where they hit by some points increases? 

Btw the Husskard CA is also a neat buff to Mournfangs which also syngergizes well with the All out Attack.

They went up 20pts to 160 for 2.

[Kadeton]

5 hours ago, Charleston said:

I wonder why people dislike Mournfangs so much? While loosing the Battalion in Matched no longer allows fishing for MW's, they got with "All out attack" a huge buff to their reliability (Hitting on 4+ is a damned joke). Where they hit by some points increases?

There's nothing wrong with Mournfangs, they're just not as good as Stonehorns at... anything, really. That doesn't make Mournfangs bad, it just means Stonehorns are awesome.

Quote

Btw the Husskard CA is also a neat buff to Mournfangs which also syngergizes well with the All out Attack.

No synergy possible, unfortunately. Both CAs are used in the Combat Phase, so they can't be received by the same unit.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Kadeton

[Ganigumo]

6 hours ago, Charleston said:

I wonder why people dislike Mournfangs so much? While loosing the Battalion in Matched no longer allows fishing for MW's, they got with "All out attack" a huge buff to their reliability (Hitting on 4+ is a damned joke). Where they hit by some points increases? 

Btw the Husskard CA is also a neat buff to Mournfangs which also syngergizes well with the All out Attack.

Mournfang can be used well, but their big problem comes from our allegiance abilities. They only count as 2 models each on objectives, which is the same as any other cheaper ogor, and they were never worth running in big units to get the better ogor charge off of (and now we can't).
The point increase didn't help either, as now 4 mournfang are the exact same cost as stonehorn beastriders, who do get the better ogor charge, and count as 10 models on an objective.

If they counted as 2 models for ogor charge, and 3-4 for might makes right, I think they'd be in a really good spot.

[Lord Krungharr]

I like the MW bouncing speedbump for Mournfangs.  They're good for filling out a battalion now, basically like they were before too.  And model diversity is nice to see on the table sometimes.  They can always retreat if the Ironguts catch up and need some space to get in there.