AoS 2 - Ogor Mawtribe Discussion

[Lord Krungharr]

18 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Your assuming drops will still count from battalions. If you look at the pic of the new battalions you can see the one symbol at the top that says 'counts as one drop'. To me that translates as all others dont count as one drop

Right, 4 drops:  1 drop from the Battle Regiment and then 3 from the units in the Command Entourage.  I saw somewhere that the least drops 'steals the initiative'.  Hard to say if that means players roll off for the initiative but a lower drop count can steal it from the roll-winner or if it's like now where the lowest drop-count just wins the initiative.

[Pariah255]

Interesting consideration for Beastclaw fanatics: 


Odds that Mournfang gain the Monster (or Behemoth for battalion purposes) Keyword in AoS 3? I feel like that would really make Mournfang a VERY solid choice. Not that they're horrible now, but obviously they are kind of sub-par. Not sure how they would affect listbuilding or whatever, but people smarter than I am can discuss this! Just a thought!

Edited June 13, 2021 by Pariah255

[HostilSpike]

The universal artefact for 5+ Ward and Priest buffs might make Huskard on Thundertusk a much more reliable support piece. 

[Charleston]

18 hours ago, Pariah255 said:

Interesting consideration for Beastclaw fanatics: 


Odds that Mournfang gain the Monster (or Behemoth for battalion purposes) Keyword in AoS 3? I feel like that would really make Mournfang a VERY solid choice. Not that they're horrible now, but obviously they are kind of sub-par. Not sure how they would affect listbuilding or whatever, but people smarter than I am can discuss this! Just a thought!

No chance. With the new Monster rules? It would be just a crazy and in my opinion unjustified buff

[Frowny]

People are commenting on huskards being better (which is maybe true) but the real winners seem like the things that were already strong- Frost Lords on Stonehorns. 

Easy access to a 2+ save is excellent with either all out defence or finest moment. Similarlly, +1 to hit is excellent on them since so many of the stonehorns attacks hit on 4's. It makes the brand of the skald/ black clatterhorn less necessary too. Healing d3 is also excellent on such a sturdy model, and a free roar or d3 mortals as a monster is excellent too. 

I always find my ogres have tons of extra CP sitting around since we have almost no useful command abilities, so getting some excellent ones is a big improvement. 

Some other thoughts on improvements/nerfs

Winners-

Yetis- pile in 6 inches is still excellent, and even better to avoid enemies shooting you on the charge. They never wanted to be more than 3 anyway, so that's fine already. 

Sonehorn Beastriders- as above, can now get +1 to hit from a nearby general to help out their inaccurate horns/hooves

Huskard on thundertusk- Maybe pending his points, might be useful. if points stay in the same ratio, still just worse than a stonehorn though

Frost Sabres- Little 2 man units lose nothing, having little small screens is now much much better than big long screens.

Losers

Gnoblars- without stringing them out they are just kinda useless. Might makes right tends to be better for taking objectives than giant blobs of infantry that are terrible when fighting anything and die to a sneeze.

Gluttons-Giant bases and 1'' reach are a huge problem. While its true, I seldom got 12 into combat, I could usually manage 8-10.  Now I think it will be hard to get more than 7 without losing coherency, not to mention the unit size changes make taking them in bit units hard to do. It also undermines an entire part of our allegience ability, since as written, its hard to get more than 8 gutbusters in a unit. Only ironguts can even do it. Maybe point changes will save them. 

Leadbelchers- same problem as glutton, just won't get many into range. Maybe MSU 2 man units running around could be fun. 

All of this could easily be changed with expected point changes, so we'll see. 

I wish they'd made an exception for mid-wound units like ogres. I understand that 60 grots strung out single file is a big much, but 6 gluttons in a row seems pretty appropriate and not at all out of place. I also don't like how 25mm bases are forever extra good just because 25mm < 1inch. seems super arbitrary for a system that doesn't formally have rules for base sizes (unlike say infinity which has a whole silouhette thing). Even with a point drop, I can't imagine gluttons faring well with all the unit size and coherency changes though. 

[Ganigumo]

Don't forget Ironguts are big winners, come in 4s and have 2" range on those big weapons with easy access to +1 to hit/save.

Something to keep in mind about the yetis 6" pile in is that regroup counters it at least 50% of the time. Although that costs a CP so maybe its a win.

[Schauer]

Hard to say who the winners and losers are until some clarifications are made about how some subfaction stuff works with the new rules. 

 

Boulderhead for instance allowed each leader mount to have a trait instead of just one. Does this remain the case for 3.0 considering mount traits are considered an enhancement now? If not, this becomes a very unattractive subfaction. 

 

Also worth noting that a lot of models should expect a points increase, and I would imagine the monsters are no exception. How high they hike the stonehorn and now revitalized huskard on thundertusk remains to be seen and could effect things. 

 

I noticed a funny combo that it possible. I dont think it is viable but it would be a funny thing to throw out in a game

FLoSH (Boulderhead)
Artefact of Power: Arcane Tome (makes them a wizard)
Spell Lore: Flaming Weapons (Use on themselves to give +1 damage to casters melee weapons. Use on the spear)
Mount Trait: Black Clatterhorn

Bring a butcher and use an enhancement to give him Molten Entrails. Cast on the Stonehorn.

You then have a 400 point model with an attack profile that features

4/3+/3+/-1/4
3/3+/3+/-/1
6/3+/3+/-2/5
D6/2+/2+/-1/d3+2

[Ganigumo]

Actually frostlord on thundertusk is an interesting pick, bit of a hassle to get an artifact, but he can have a 3+ save, a 5+ ward, -1 to be hit, and reduce rend targetting him by 1

[Grugg]

Hello all, had my first game of 3.0 last night against soul blight.

We used the 2.0 points, but all other 3.0 rules where possible.

We only used core battalions (assuming that battle tome battalions won't be match play legal) and the reenforecment rules for list building.

Reenforecment rules massively changed they way I built my standard list. I was only able to get gluttons to a unit of 9 (not 12) and had to run more minimum units where I would normally have larger units.

Edit: I should add this meant I was unable to have ogor uunits doing crushing bulk on 4+ besides my FLoSH

The changes to objective holding affected my opponent more (he had 2 monsters) so was able to contest objectives a bit better - however the ogor rules are still great.

My MVP was definitely iron guts. Ran them 'reenforced' as a unit of 8, they shredded everything they touched and held the central objective all game.

We only had time to play 4 out of the 5 rounds and were tied for points. The resummoning of death minions was valuable for encroaching in from the edges and he was able to throw them at me to clog up my units whilst he used a Vampire lord on zombie dragon and Manfred to eat units.

FLoSH was able to shred the VLoZD, but my ironguts weren't able to get to Vlad to turn him into mince meat.

Another weakness I found was a spell he used (something like winds of death, it had winds in the name) that does hits based on the amount of units near the Target and goes off twice on a casting roll of 9+. That spell was able to finish off my FLoSH before he could heal up and kill my slaughter master from full health in a turn.

Maybe I should've taken a second slaughter master instead of a tyrant? Also tempted by emerald lifeswarm as I feel I could've done with more healing for sure.

Does anyone have any thoughts on playing the new rules yet?

List below if anyone has any comments:

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Bloodgullet

Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- Artefact: Splatter-cleaver
- Mount Trait: Black Clatterhorn
Slaughtermaster (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Nice Drop of the Red Stuff!
- Lore of Gutmagic: Blood Feast
- Bloodgullet 2nd Spell: Ribcracker
Tyrant (160)
- Big Name: Fateseeker

Battleline
8 x Ironguts (440)
9 x Ogor Gluttons (360)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
3 x Ogor Gluttons (120)
- Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists
4 x Leadbelchers (160)

Units
2 x Leadbelchers (80)
2 x Leadbelchers (80)
2 x Frost Sabres (40)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 144
 

Edited June 17, 2021 by Grugg

[Unter]

1 hour ago, Grugg said:

Hello all, had my first game of 3.0 last night against soul blight.

We used the 2.0 points, but all other 3.0 rules where possible.

We only used core battalions (assuming that battle tome battalions won't be match play legal) and the reenforecment rules for list building.

Reenforecment rules massively changed they way I built my standard list. I was only able to get gluttons to a unit of 9 (not 12) and had to run more minimum units where I would normally have larger units.

Edit: I should add this meant I was unable to have ogor uunits doing crushing bulk on 4+ besides my FLoSH

The changes to objective holding affected my opponent more (he had 2 monsters) so was able to contest objectives a bit better - however the ogor rules are still great.

My MVP was definitely iron guts. Ran them 'reenforced' as a unit of 8, they shredded everything they touched and held the central objective all game.

We only had time to play 4 out of the 5 rounds and were tied for points. The resummoning of death minions was valuable for encroaching in from the edges and he was able to throw them at me to clog up my units whilst he used a Vampire lord on zombie dragon and Manfred to eat units.

FLoSH was able to shred the VLoZD, but my ironguts weren't able to get to Vlad to turn him into mince meat.

Another weakness I found was a spell he used (something like winds of death, it had winds in the name) that does hits based on the amount of units near the Target and goes off twice on a casting roll of 9+. That spell was able to finish off my FLoSH before he could heal up and kill my slaughter master from full health in a turn.

Maybe I should've taken a second slaughter master instead of a tyrant? Also tempted by emerald lifeswarm as I feel I could've done with more healing for sure.

Does anyone have any thoughts on playing the new rules yet?

List below if anyone has any comments:

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Bloodgullet

Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- Artefact: Splatter-cleaver
- Mount Trait: Black Clatterhorn
Slaughtermaster (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Nice Drop of the Red Stuff!
- Lore of Gutmagic: Blood Feast
- Bloodgullet 2nd Spell: Ribcracker
Tyrant (160)
- Big Name: Fateseeker

Battleline
8 x Ironguts (440)
9 x Ogor Gluttons (360)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
3 x Ogor Gluttons (120)
- Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists
4 x Leadbelchers (160)

Units
2 x Leadbelchers (80)
2 x Leadbelchers (80)
2 x Frost Sabres (40)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 144
 

cool post. did you have any challenges with coherency for the ironguts?

[Malakithe]

Anyone see any points leaks yet? The IJ leak, while questionable, is a big oof if true. Brutes went back up to their release points of 180. 

[Grugg]

3 hours ago, Unter said:

cool post. did you have any challenges with coherency for the ironguts?

Not massively. As they have 2 inch reach they can attack over their first rank, I generally ran them in 2 lines of 4.

However, due to terrain causing coherency issues I often had to forgoe getting 3 or 4 in combat, but 4 or 5 of them still shred.

Overall I would say coherency is a big deal for the larger units, it was a bit of a pain for my 9 man glutton unit.

My opponent had real trouble getting his 10 direwolf squad to get more than 3 or 4 into combat with coherency + terrain.

Certainly nits something you need to consider.

 

[Frowny]

I've always run ironguts in just 4's, and they have usually worked fine for me even there. I put them behind some gnoblars or dogs and with their 2 inch reach, can pile in and fight over them the first combat. Since I then usually have 2 combats before they take damage (first they have to kill the screen) they have usually killed whatever they are fighting even without the extra 4 models, and even with the screen, they are notably cheaper. 

Interestingly, 4 ironguts with a screen will beat 8 over 2 turns if on the defense at least some of the time. 1'st turn the 8 man unit murders the screen, but takes ~10-12 wounds back, losing 2-3 models, 2nd turn the 4 ironguts take can be picked first (you are the active player now), kill another 2-3. The remaining ~2-3 ironguts from the 8 man unit fight back but now can be slowly grinded out by the still intact 4 initial ironguts over subsequent turns. The secret is positioning your ironguts 2.1 inches behind the screen. It's not a done deal, and can swing either way, for example if you have to pick some other critical combat first, but the fact that it is close when one unit combination costs 120 points less is still quite important to note. 

4 man units do lose staying power that way though and are less good on the charge but better defensively, and the screens can sometimes be used doing something else if needed as well, granting some flexibility. 

[Schauer]

So now that the point costs are out of the bag how do you guys feel about them?

 

Personally I think the big winner is maneaters since they stayed the same

Edited June 17, 2021 by Schauer

[peasant]

Rip gluttons

[Walrustaco]

These aren’t leaks. So i feel like I can post these?

[HostilSpike]

2 hours ago, Walrustaco said:

These aren’t leaks. So i feel like I can post these?

Honestly feels like we got off better than a lot of factions. 

Just realised the effective 120pts increase on 12 Gluttons, ooooof.

Edited June 17, 2021 by HostilSpike

[Mutton]

Leadbelchers still too expensive. Gluttons are going to have a rough time doing anything in an edition where everyone can routinely get +1 save. Having rend or mortal wound output is vital. Gnoblars at 120 why? We probably got lucky with the Frostlord.

The thought of running 18 gluttons is funny though.

[Bayul]

That's fine. My former Eurlbad list looks like this now:

Ogor Mawtribes / Boulderhead (1995)

Battle Regiment
Huskard on Thundertusk (335)
- General
- Touched by the Everwinter (Pulverising Hailstorm / Keening Gale)
- Alvagr Ancient
- Blood Vulture
Mournfang Pack (160)
Mournfang Pack (160)
Mournfang Pack (160)

Alpha-Beast Pack
Frostlord on Stonehorn (430)
- Brand of the Svard
- Old Granitetooth
Frostlord on Stonehorn (430)
- Black Clatterhorn
Stonehorn Beastriders (320)
- Blood Vulture

My frontline Stonehorns get a D6 normal move before the first battle round (!) while the Huskard priest supports from the back.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Bayul
This list doesn't work

[inultus]

44 minutes ago, Bayul said:

Alpha-Beast Pack
Frostlord on Stonehorn (430)
- Brand of the Svard
- Old Granitetooth
Frostlord on Stonehorn (430)
- Black Clatterhorn
Stonehorn Beastriders (320)
- Blood Vulture

Leaders can not be in a alpha-beast pack unfortunately.

[Frowny]

Seems like the things that were not great already (gluttons, gnoblars) went up a lot, while the things that were excellent already (stonehorns mostly) went up slightly but also gained a bunch of abilities. I think the tome will be well positioned after this in overall strength, but it would have been nice to reassess the internal balance a bit.

[Bayul]

11 hours ago, inultus said:

Leaders can not be in a alpha-beast pack unfortunately.

Right, I'd need to downgrade one of my Frostlords or the Huskard to a second Stonehorn Beastriders for them to be valid for Alpha-Beast Pack (or Line Breaker). I think I move the Stonehorn Beastriders into the Battle Regiment and have three drops:

Ogor Mawtribes / Boulderhead (1995)

Battle Regiment

Frostlord on Stonehorn (430)
- General
- Lord of Beasts
- Old Granitetooth
Mournfang Pack (160)
Mournfang Pack (160)
Mournfang Pack (160)
Stonehorn Beastriders (320)
- Blood Vulture

Frostlord on Stonehorn (430)
- Brand of the Svard
- Black Clatterhorn

Huskard on Thundertusk (335)
- Alvagr Ancient
- Pulverising Hailstorm
- Blood Vulture

Great Mawpot (0)

 
 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Bayul
Traits

[Lord Krungharr]

Well I'll still run my Gluttons, as they're all nicely painted so it would suck to try and convert them to Maneaters.  So I'll make some Maneaters!  Still Gluttons with IronFists can get some MW in if they take a whole bunch of saves. Maybe bless them with a 6++ from HoTT and add an All Out Defence vs a nonrendy enemy?    

Leadbelchers should be able to Unleash Hell with D6 shots per dude I think, so that's something maybe worth extra points?  

 

[Pariah255]

Hey gang, quick question: 

If I am not mistaken, Huskards on Thundertusks can chant an Everwinter Prayer plus the one on their warscroll, correct? If this is the case, do we get another prayer for generic prayers as well (Smite and Ward)? I've been combing over the rules and I feel like there could be some merit to running a Huskard on Thundertusk or two as a supporting Hero/Behemoth for both Beastclaw and mixed lists; Giving that unit of Ironguts a 6+ ward and healing a Stonehorn every turn seems pretty sweet to me! (or even giving a dual FLoSH list the ability to hit and wound on 2s for two turns in a row with Finest Hour)

[Kadeton]

The points changes are rough for trying to fit my Beastclaws neatlyish into 2000 points, but they seem pretty fair overall. A Frostlord at 430 is still excellent, considering the boost they received, and the lack of a Eurlbad means I don't have to take a Huskard any more. Poor Gluttons, though.

1 minute ago, Pariah255 said:

Hey gang, quick question: 

If I am not mistaken, Huskards on Thundertusks can chant an Everwinter Prayer plus the one on their warscroll, correct? If this is the case, do we get another prayer for generic prayers as well (Smite and Ward)?

In 2nd Ed, you could chant both. In 3rd Ed, every Priest can chant one prayer only per round, full stop.