AoS 2 - Ogor Mawtribe Discussion

[Pitloze]

2 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Just looked at them. Looks amesome. Thanks so much. Their cobbled bases might be the solution for another project as well. 

 

Play it first. The ironblaster spam won't be the solution even with the trophy rack. It isn't reliable as is anyway. Slaanesh even on paper is crazy to beat. But to be fair that's why they are so crazy on top. I'm curious to see if top 3 will be possible. I'm still convinced that big blocks of ogors will be the thing opponents can't deal with. (except Slaanesh which is a weird conundrum)

But that's of course just my speculation.

Stonehorns running around capping objectives is also something people will need to deal with. I played a game vs Nurgle and I stole, and held, and objective over 10 blightkings with 1 Stonehorn and 1 Mournfang. I think on games where the objective is random they will be valuable. I really hope big blocks of Ogors are going to be a thing. playing 24 gluttons and 8 Ironguts seems fun.

[MKsmash]

I think all these list ideas, unit opinions, and unit statistics are great and all, but I think you can't say whether or not a list is good unless if you've played it. Lists are nice, but they don't help a lot if you haven't tested them.  If you have, tell people! We all want to know how Mawtribes works and how they work against other armies!

[Kramer]

Just now, Pitloze said:

Stonehorns running around capping objectives is also something people will need to deal with. I played a game vs Nurgle and I stole, and held, and objective over 10 blightkings with 1 Stonehorn and 1 Mournfang. I think on games where the objective is random they will be valuable. I really hope big blocks of Ogors are going to be a thing. playing 24 gluttons and 8 Ironguts seems fun.

Absolutely. Frostlord on stonehorn with ethereal will be a challenge for a lot of armies. I am curious/ worried about being outmagiced every game and being zoned out in endless spells. More so than Slaanesh (but i;m not aiming for the top spots to be fair)

[Pitloze]

1 minute ago, Kramer said:

Absolutely. Frostlord on stonehorn with ethereal will be a challenge for a lot of armies. I am curious/ worried about being outmagiced every game and being zoned out in endless spells. More so than Slaanesh (but i;m not aiming for the top spots to be fair)

With bloodgullet, the pot, and a balewind vortex you have good chance at playing the magic game. One butcher to stay at the pot on the vortex and one slaughtermaster/butcher to push along with the troops. You can also bring cogs instead of the vortex but I like the spell range increase more than the movement.

[Kramer]

6 minutes ago, Pitloze said:

With bloodgullet, the pot, and a balewind vortex you have good chance at playing the magic game. One butcher to stay at the pot on the vortex and one slaughtermaster/butcher to push along with the troops. You can also bring cogs instead of the vortex but I like the spell range increase more than the movement.

Yeah offensively I can see some potential there. But I meant more defensively. How Skaven play with lots of magic and zoning out areas with endless spells, that playstyle I can’t really find a solution for. It’s basically a question of can’t do everything at once 🤔😂

but like @MKsmash rightly says. I’ll first play test my two current lists of which I actually have the models and then see how it turns out. 

[Reuben Parker]

30 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Yeah offensively I can see some potential there. But I meant more defensively. How Skaven play with lots of magic and zoning out areas with endless spells, that playstyle I can’t really find a solution for. It’s basically a question of can’t do everything at once 🤔😂

but like @MKsmash rightly says. I’ll first play test my two current lists of which I actually have the models and then see how it turns out. 

Blood rock talisman would give you next to pot +3 unbind and +2 dispel could be good to stop and or dispel annoying endless spells but takes up an artifact. However if you feel that you really need to shore up the anti magic it’s pretty good. 

[Frowny]

Its interesting to me that so many people are very much pushing the ogors/big block of gluttons side of things as the more competitive. Mornfangs seem to hit harder than gluttons on the charge, are about the same defensively (12 wounds on a 4+ for 140 points vs. 12 wounds at 5+ for 120), and nearly as good offensively when charged as well! Plus they are faster, and benefit from the lackluster everwinter bite thing. They also do quite well with buffs, with 2 good attack profiles. The huskard on stonehorn buff is also quite solid for them, and he seems decent on his own. Not as killy as the frostlord, but nearly 100pts cheaper is worth something as well, so for his points he is almost as killy, since so much of the damage is the stonehorn itself. You could even run them in bloodgullets to still get the casting support if so desired. 

Alternatively, Leadbelchers and Ironguts also both seem better than gluttons. The ranged attacks or 2'' reach while being similarly survivable adds a ton of versatility that gluttons with their 1 inch reach will be lacking. 

I've played enough sylvaneth Kurnoth hunters to know that on anything more than small units, 1' reach means many models won't be able to reach.

Maybe its a function of what models people have though......

 

 

[FatherTurin]

So I’ve been torn over Ossiarch Bonereapers and Ogors as a side army while I’m waiting for the new Kharadron tome, and I settled on Ogors.  I’m trading the Feast of Bones Ossiarch half for a second set of Ogors (I know it’s not a straight trade, $$ wise, I don’t care), and with the aim of putting something on the table as quickly and as cheaply as I can, I’m getting a Beastclaw start collecting and put this list together:

Underguts Mawtribe

Tyrant (General, mass of scars, blast keg)

Frostlord on Stonehorn (metalcruncher)

Butcher

6 Gluttons

6 Gluttons

4 Leadbelchers

2 Ironblasters

4 Mournfang

Feast of Bones Battalion

I can’t decide if I should take the Butcher artifact to refill the maw pot, or the realm artifact to make the Frostlord ethereal.  Also, there are changes I could make (make the Frostlord the General, take 2 units of mournfang and one big unit of gluttons to get the 4+ mortal wounds while also rerolling charges from the battalion.

For something really thrown together, this list actually looks...kind of decent?  Bear in mind I haven’t played AoS in a long time, and haven’t played Ogors of any kind in even longer (I stupidly sold my Beastclaw army a while back).  Am I crazy?  Is this a good list, or at least a fun one for more casual games?  I know it isn’t  focused, half gun line and half mass of muscle to the face, but going for a “combined arms” approach with Ogors actually strikes me as absolutely hilarious.

Edited November 7, 2019 by FatherTurin

[FPC]

43 minutes ago, Frowny said:

Its interesting to me that so many people are very much pushing the ogors/big block of gluttons side of things as the more competitive. Mornfangs seem to hit harder than gluttons on the charge, are about the same defensively (12 wounds on a 4+ for 140 points vs. 12 wounds at 5+ for 120), and nearly as good offensively when charged as well! Plus they are faster, and benefit from the lackluster everwinter bite thing. They also do quite well with buffs, with 2 good attack profiles. The huskard on stonehorn buff is also quite solid for them, and he seems decent on his own. Not as killy as the frostlord, but nearly 100pts cheaper is worth something as well, so for his points he is almost as killy, since so much of the damage is the stonehorn itself. You could even run them in bloodgullets to still get the casting support if so desired. 

Alternatively, Leadbelchers and Ironguts also both seem better than gluttons. The ranged attacks or 2'' reach while being similarly survivable adds a ton of versatility that gluttons with their 1 inch reach will be lacking. 

I've played enough sylvaneth Kurnoth hunters to know that on anything more than small units, 1' reach means many models won't be able to reach.

Maybe its a function of what models people have though......

 

 

Definitely some valid points here. Largely I agree with your points and especially look forward to running massed LBs and/or Mournfang.  Might even try a “Gluttonless” army with mostly LBs. They’re about as good in melees and their shooting is decent.

A few things worth considering tho:

-There are some Glutton-only buffs...but not a ton.

-Mournfang will outpace some of your best “wholly within” buffs. In particular, the Firebelly -1 to hit bubble. It is unreliable but good if it goes off.

-Mournfang in large numbers will also have issues getting everyone into combat.

-The Glutton discount at 12 is a BIG incentive.

-Gluttons are necessary for some battalions.

Just some general thoughts. Nothing that really merits not taking things other than Gluttons. Just worth noting.

[Lysandestolpe]

Hey y’all,

Here is a tutorial just for you all amazing ogor players! I hope you find it useful  

 

 

[Fabint]

5 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

That's a really cool list. I gotta say, I'm an Ironjawz player and I'm really on the verge of getting into Mawtribes. After watching Doom's review and TheHonestWargamer (which completely put me down about the faction btw) I really don't know where to stand about the units. On one side, you have Doom and HeyWoah who say that Gluttons are king and BCR has really get hit, on the other hand you have HonestWargamer who pushes the Gnoblars as being necessary to screen, and pushes leadbealchers as being really good. The Ironblasters though, listening to Doom, really seemed bad, unfortunately. What is your thinking behind taking them in? 

I really like your list btw, it seems thematic and strong, however it doesn't have the Gluttons who, after watching Doom's game on his channel vs IJ (and completely wiped the floor with them), have such staying power on the board, they really seem like a key component of a Mawtribes army. Please feel free to enlighten me.

Honestly I like Mournfang over Gluttons, and own a ton of them already which makes them hard to justify picking up. What I'm going for is a strong shooting list (4x Ironblasters, Thundertusk, 12x Leadbelchers) that want you to come on in.

 

The Frostlord can take point thanks to his amulet and mount trait, making him have a 3+ save and if he gets charged your opponent fights last. Kinda using him as a screen for all the guns, to help deal with Idoneth and Slaanesh.

The Ironblasters can all keep double shooting until melee, at which point the Slaughtermaster makes them count as monsters for trampling damage.

While 4x double tapping ironblasters can't theoretically kill a KoS reliably, adding in a dozen leadbelchers and a Thundertusk certainly helps.

I'm not using the trophy rack because... well honestly I felt like the ethereal amulet anchor on the Frostlord was necessary to make him anything more than a waste of points. 

 

This is all theory, though. Right now I'm running a mostly BCR army that I'm loving on the table. I'm also super curious to see what people will pull off with Winterbite. I think between Yeti pile in moves, command ability fight first, and the Thundertusk fight last power they might actually end up being a powerhouse. Unfortunately I can't imagine buying enough yetis and cats for that.

[Reuben Parker]

As the magic tribe is probably the best outside specific builds their re roll all wounds CA on gluttons does increase glutton value a lot. 

However if not running max glutton for buffs and 80 point discount I think leadbelchers are better. Gluttons feel like 12s or nothing for me although it’s great that there’s no clear cut super core unit in the book I think. Most of the warscrolls feel useful (bar TT riders and FLoTT). 

[Entombet]

I just wonder why some ppl think that 12 model 48 wounds unit will be hard to shift?, Its nothing that witch elves, plague monks and many more units cant handle in one turn of combat

[Bozly]

Im new to the ogres but i was looking at the skal battalion with a hunter and some sabers. It looks like an efficient little detachment. +4 to charge baked in and the current wording lets you spam +1 atk on the sabers unit. Might be a halfway decent backline assassin unit. Curious if you guys have tried it

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, Entombet said:

I just wonder why some ppl think that 12 model 48 wounds unit will be hard to shift?, Its nothing that witch elves, plague monks and many more units cant handle in one turn of combat

Trueish but not without a big investment on their side as well. But I think a big reason is that it worked before the book. Now we have debuffs, healing and a speed boost. So more chances of getting the charge, -1 to hit, restoring wounded ogors. So should work better right? Not to mention the attack back from the survivors improved

I have played plenty of games vs daughters of khaine and from my experience it’s not that likely they get the full unit in one go. 
the math also supports that. If your opponent gets 20 Out of 30 within striking distance, 4 attacks, witchbrew re-rolls, no greasy deluge:

(from memory mind razor won’t work because we have a better bravery in combat but not sure on that, let me know if I missed other buffs as well)

I like how the doom and darkness guy phrased it; to experience the full resilience of these ogors you need to experience it first. 
say they do the average of 27 wounds. Six still get to strike back forcing them into between 13 en 23 faith saves. Again this is with no buffs on the ogors and with witchbrew and +2 attacks for the witch elves. Not saying the gluttons are the saviours all of the sudden but the math seems to support my previous experience that it’s very rare to lose 12 bulls in one go  

 

7 hours ago, Frowny said:

Its interesting to me that so many people are very much pushing the ogors/big block of gluttons side of things as the more competitive. Mornfangs seem to hit harder than gluttons on the charge, are about the same defensively (12 wounds on a 4+ for 140 points vs. 12 wounds at 5+ for 120), and nearly as good offensively when charged as well! Plus they are faster, and benefit from the lackluster everwinter bite thing. They also do quite well with buffs, with 2 good attack profiles. The huskard on stonehorn buff is also quite solid for them, and he seems decent on his own. Not as killy as the frostlord, but nearly 100pts cheaper is worth something as well, so for his points he is almost as killy, since so much of the damage is the stonehorn itself. You could even run them in bloodgullets to still get the casting support if so desired. 

Alternatively, Leadbelchers and Ironguts also both seem better than gluttons. The ranged attacks or 2'' reach while being similarly survivable adds a ton of versatility that gluttons with their 1 inch reach will be lacking. 

I've played enough sylvaneth Kurnoth hunters to know that on anything more than small units, 1' reach means many models won't be able to reach.

Maybe its a function of what models people have though......

 

 

For me the battalions play a biggest part in it. Also see my response above about resilience. The other thing is while the mournfang have a lot positives... those bases are such an annoyance. Even with gargant hackers I found a them unwieldy.  But that’s maybe a skill to learn. 
I definitely feel there is a place now for leadbelchers. Ironguts I’m not sold on but again that’s more because experiences before the book and their 4+ to hit 😑

[BrocknerTheBear]

When making lists for meeting engagements were gluttons cant be taken above 6 models per unit is there still a place for them, or would it be wiser to go ironguts instead for the rend and damage?

I still feel the multiple hits on 6's has a place for anti horde as some units can still reach 40 models.

[Lucentia]

Mindrazor will still give the witches Rend 1, and they can get reroll hits depending on the battleround, but they won't be getting the +1 damage from mindrazor without investing in other bravery buffs/debuffs elsewhere in the army, so they won't cut through the entire unit quite so readily anymore.

[Eevika]

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

my previous experience that it’s very rare to lose 12 bulls in one go  

My plague monk list can deal 110 mortal wounds in a single attack on avarage. If i just can get my buffs off

[Pitloze]

Gluttons can also one shot other 5+ battleline units. It's a battle of who swings first.

[Afalconeer]

Returning player here, I've been waiting until ogres got a proper book before jumping into Aos and it's finally arrived. This is the list I'm thinking of running, which looking through a lot of the other posts here seem fairly normal.

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Bloodgullet
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Tyrant (160)
- General
- Trait: Nice Drop of the Red Stuff!
- Artefact: Splatter-cleaver
Butcher (140)
- Cleaver
- Artefact: Wizardflesh Apron
- Lore of Gutmagic: Blood Feast, Ribcracker Slaughtermaster (140)
- Lore of Gutmagic: Greasy Deluge, Fleshcrave curse
Firebelly (120)
- Lore of the Sun-Eater: Fiery Whirlwind
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Pairs of Clubs or Blades
4 x Ironguts (220)
2 x Leadbelchers (80)
2 x Leadbelchers (80)
2 x Leadbelchers (80)
Goremand (140)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 165

 

I have thought about dropping the Firebelly and vortex to pick up 4 more leadbelchers, but his spell lore is just so good. Also I've seen people being down on the tyrant, but replacing him with another spell caster seems redundant, and more ogres just doesn't seem as killy. I suppose a couple of mournfang might be ok, or I could drop him and the vortex for some maneaters but the means leaving the cauldron unattended plus no longer being able to bully the gluttons first turn.

 

[Beastmaster]

To turn the question around, which unit can endure so much more than 48 wounds plus healing options?

Edited November 7, 2019 by Beastmaster

[Kurkulem]

10 minutes ago, Beastmaster said:

To turn the question around, which unit can endure so much more than 48 wounds plus healing options?

it's not really about the 48 wounds but 5+ to save

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Eevika said:

My plague monk list can deal 110 mortal wounds in a single attack on avarage. If i just can get my buffs off

But then the argument against gluttons is moot. Nothing in the game survives that  so it’s back to a positioning game. Actually it’s an argument for 20 gnoblars as everything you could bring dies to that, so go for the cheapest screen and get the counter in. 

also can you show my what you combine for that ? Because that’s insane if that’s truly the average. 

[Eevika]

2 minutes ago, Kramer said:

also can you show my what you combine for that ? Because that’s insane if that’s truly the average. 

40x Plague monks with Sword and Staff. Glottkin +1 attack, Plague furnace +1 attack, Charge +1 attack, Blades of Putrifaction mortals on 6+ to hit and then we finish off with full rerolls to hits with a Verminlord Corruptor. Thats 360 attacks and you just reroll all hit rolls that are not a 6. You avarage at 110 mortals according to my calculations. 

[Juicy]

My stardrake with lord castellant and staunch def died 3 times over from a buffed unitnof plaguemonks like that.  Puur shock moment. I feel like 12 gluttons are still the way to go to get some massive bodys on a objective.