AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[Arcian]

On 4/17/2020 at 2:55 PM, 5kaven5lave said:

Ok, so next Harvester question. The ability to recycle only works if a model dies within 3”, so where would you place a Harvester relative to a block of 20 Mortek? At one end where you’re taking models off from? Ta!

I've seen some people (and how I usually use them) have the harvester in the middle of the mortek guard ranks sort of like

             MMMMMMMMMM
MMMMM HarvsterMMMMM

As the harvester can reach over the front line mortek to smash enemy units.

[5kaven5lave]

1 hour ago, Arcian said:

I've seen some people (and how I usually use them) have the harvester in the middle of the mortek guard ranks sort of like

             MMMMMMMMMM
MMMMM HarvsterMMMMM

As the harvester can reach over the front line mortek to smash enemy units.

Thanks man, this is super helpful and what I will run as default. There is also a Stardrake in my local meta which worries me as three instakill bites could well break my coherency in something like that. Would you keep that formation and hope you roll enough 4+s to fill in any gaps? Run them as a 4x5 block instead so you can lose 3 and keep coherency in the back rank? Have my Morteks fight after the Drake so I can pile in afterwards to regain cohenrency? Any extras ideas from anyone much appreciated. 

[Mad Doc Grotsnik]

Mortisan Soulreaper, eh?

Compared to his mates, I’m just not seeing him in a list?  Am I missing something here?

[Arcian]

2 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Thanks man, this is super helpful and what I will run as default. There is also a Stardrake in my local meta which worries me as three instakill bites could well break my coherency in something like that. Would you keep that formation and hope you roll enough 4+s to fill in any gaps? Run them as a 4x5 block instead so you can lose 3 and keep coherency in the back rank? Have my Morteks fight after the Drake so I can pile in afterwards to regain cohenrency? Any extras ideas from anyone much appreciated. 

Ah yes the stardrake. I admit I had slightly forgotten about that unit (local stormcast player doesn't run one, and I haven't taken my reapers to a tournament yet) so if you're going up against one it might be smart to change up how you position the harvester. I mainly run that formation to better protect it against flanking attacks since it's such a "Kill this thing first" target.

The harvester off to the side of the block, or behind them may work? That way you can still regen units when they die. You could also bring the harvester around after the guard are engaged, though i'd still be worried about it getting flanked by a scary unit. Though I suppose if that happens you'd be able to smash them with the guard.  I apologize for not having much experience against a star drake

[5kaven5lave]

8 minutes ago, Arcian said:

Ah yes the stardrake. I admit I had slightly forgotten about that unit (local stormcast player doesn't run one, and I haven't taken my reapers to a tournament yet) so if you're going up against one it might be smart to change up how you position the harvester. I mainly run that formation to better protect it against flanking attacks since it's such a "Kill this thing first" target.

The harvester off to the side of the block, or behind them may work? That way you can still regen units when they die. You could also bring the harvester around after the guard are engaged, though i'd still be worried about it getting flanked by a scary unit. Though I suppose if that happens you'd be able to smash them with the guard.  I apologize for not having much experience against a star drake

Thanks again kidder, running him at the side of a deeper block was my thinking so will give that a whirl. 

[5kaven5lave]

Yet another question, this time about Katakros:

His Supreme Lord CA only gives +1 to save for (not keyword?) Mortis Praetorians - does that mean that bit can only work if you take that sub faction? Cheers. 

[Arcian]

40 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Yet another question, this time about Katakros:

His Supreme Lord CA only gives +1 to save for (not keyword?) Mortis Praetorians - does that mean that bit can only work if you take that sub faction? Cheers. 

He only gives mortis praetorians the +1 to save, but all of his other abilities will be applied to your army no matter what subfaction you take (like the +1 to hit bubble).

Also keep in mind that Katakros also has the mortis praetorian keyword so his save becomes a 2+ when he uses Supreme Lord

[PraetorDragoon]

23 hours ago, Mad Doc Grotsnik said:

Mortisan Soulreaper, eh?

Compared to his mates, I’m just not seeing him in a list?  Am I missing something here?

He doesn't provide much, just some more additional damage. And he needs to get close to deal it, not great for a low-wound hero. Compare this to the healing of the Boneshaper or the rerolls from the Soulmason which offer more utility. 

[Mad Doc Grotsnik]

More or less my take away. There’s on item which might be useful on him, but I think I’d just double up on one of the other two.

[123lac]

Hallo friends,

I currently have Arkhan as well as Nagash and I was looking through the Legions of Nagash roster and thought to myself...these old models kinda suck.

But luckily I can use both of these heroes in the bone daddies army.

So is anyone able to tell me if there is a viable build for Ossiarchs that includes both Nagash and Arkhan? Or should I be building a list around one or the other of these heroes?

Thanks!

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

1 hour ago, 123lac said:

Hallo friends,

I currently have Arkhan as well as Nagash and I was looking through the Legions of Nagash roster and thought to myself...these old models kinda suck.

But luckily I can use both of these heroes in the bone daddies army.

So is anyone able to tell me if there is a viable build for Ossiarchs that includes both Nagash and Arkhan? Or should I be building a list around one or the other of these heroes?

Thanks!

I'm not a Bonereaper expert by any means, but I seriously doubt there is any really viable list that using both, as Bonereaper troops are pricey. Nagash + Arkhan + bare minimum battleline is most of 2000 points. The Ossiarchs are decidedly not a horde army, which means reaching a useful number of models prevents that kind of investment in heroes.

[Nasrod]

I want to share the product of a lot of brainstorming and theorycrafting. It's an attempt to use Arkhan as a durable, +2 anchor for casts/unbinds  while still maintaining the trademark durability of Petrifiex Elite lists to capitalize off his amazing regeneration passive for as long as possible. That durability is vulnerable most of all to ranged mortal wounds primarily generated through spellcasting; so the tl;dr is: "Protecting Arkhan protects the army."

Liege-Kavalos [General] - 200
Mighty Archaeossian, Godbone Plate

Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament - 360

Mortisan Boneshaper - 130
Lode of Saturation 

Kavalos Deathriders x 5 - 180
Mortek Guard x 10 - 130
Mortek Guard x 20 - 260

Immortis Guard x 3 - 200
Immortis Guard x 3 - 200
Morghast Archai x 2 - 210

Bone-Tithe Shrieker - 30
Soulstealer Carrion - 20

Aegis Immortal - 80 

2000/2000 | Petrifex Elite | 9 Units, 7 Drops | Approximately 7 RD per turn 

Being slower than their Harbingers while still wielding a highly unreliable damage output given their points investment, there's not much reason at first glance to ever use the Archai in favor of the Harbingers. However, utilizing the Aegis Immortal battalion to give them the ability to soak wounds from nearby heroes, they gain a fantastic niche that I haven't seen explored in any other list: with an RD spent per turn (Net 0 when remembering the battalion grants us 1 per turn; consider it an additional cost), you gain an Arkhan that moves 12", but has a defensive profile of 23 wounds with a 3+ save. Target Arkhan? on a 2+, the wound goes to the Archai. On a 5+ the wound allocation is negated entirely. Target the Archai? They also have a 5+ negation against mortals. 

Essentially, the list operates in blocks of synergy. 

Assault Block 1: Arkhan the Black + Morghast Archai x 2
Assault Block 2: Liege-Kavalos + Kavalos Deathriders x 5
Objective Block 2: Mortek Guard x 20 + Immortis Guard x 3
Objective Block 1: Mortisan Boneshaper+ Mortek Guard x 10 + Immortis Guard x 3

The assault blocks rocket up the battlefield and attempt to cause as much damage as possible/tie the enemy down for a turn; yes, we're throwing Arkhan into the fray here. The objective blocks move up behind them and secure objectives. After one round of combat, the leaders retreat while they leave any surviving Archai or Deathriders behind to continue slowing your opponent. Each of your leaders fall back to the objective blocks behind them, who have all enjoyed 2 turns of running up the field. A healthy Immortis Guard awaits each of them, protecting them from additional wounds and allowing at least 1 turn to capitalize on healing to ensure Arkhan and the Kavalos can continue into the late game.

At this point, the heroes and Immortis Guard stay where they are, while the Mortek Guard either dig in their heels for a grand last stand, or separate to protect backfield objectives/steal objectives deep in enemy territory... it's really up to what's necessary. The entire point of this list is to essentially "halve" the distance of the board so to speak. They can either attempt to alpha strike turn 1 and bring the fight to you, at which point your Guard are online on turn 1/2 which is what you want anyway; or they can move cautiously in fear of your threat range, bringing their movement down to the level of your own Mortek Guard. 

One note: the Boneshaper needs to use the Lode of Saturation on the accompanying 10 guard every turn. 10 Guard looks squishy compared to the other blocks here, but when you realize they're +3 save/++5 deathless, and regenning 6 bodies a turn if Arkhan and the Boneshaper both have their say in the matter? The idea here is to force the opponent to over commit. 

This army sports 31 wounds worth of +2/++6 armor saves, and 30 more that are +3 reroll fails/++6! 

Now, the sad news here: I can't make any purchases anytime soon. I'm missing Arkhan, the Liege-Kavalos, AND the Deathriders to make this list a reality. But I'd love feedback, and may take a crack at proxying the list whenever it's safe to be playing Sigmar again and report back with my findings.  

Edited April 23, 2020 by Nasrod

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

I really like that list, Nasrod! I don't know for sure how well it would work on the table, but if you get a chance to proxy it after quarantine (or try it during over something like Tabletop Simulator) I look forward to hearing how it does. I also like how you broke down your tactics/blocks.

I have a similar idea for an Aegis Immortal-focused list that I'm considering building once my StD are further along the hobby process, but instead of Arkhan, it uses more cavalry, with a second Liege-Kavalos, a second Deathrider unit, the Kavalos Lance battalion, and less Mortek Guard and Endless Spells. I also swapped out the Boneshaper for a Soulmason.  It's not quite as cast-y, but the Soulmason should do good work.  With the two battalions, it's down to a four-drop list (Soulmason and one unit of guard are the only things that don't fit in), and it would generate RDP like nobody's business (not to mention the free Kavalos Wedge use). Heck, with that kind of RDP generation, I can see the Immortis Guard generating Necropolis Stalker-rivaling levels of hurt, between the bonus attacks on each weapon from the Liege and their own special ability.

[Goldy751]

Im thinking about going for spears only on all my mortek guard. they are a bit more balanced and fun imo.

Also I the way I want to paint the weapons works much better on the spears than on the swords.

what do you guys think?

 

[Overread]

The maths for spears and swords shows that when equal numbers of guard are in combat, swords will deal more damage than spears. However this relies on there being equal numbers; as you get more spears in combat the numbers shift and spears beats swords eventually. So when you've large units spears can be a boon because they let you get more models into close combat. With smaller (under 30) units you typically don't need the extra inch of range to get the majority/all of the unit into combat range. 

 

That said the difference is not night and day so if you want to go all spears - GO for it! 

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

And the look on that spear is very nice, so consider this a second "go for it!" 😀

[Arcian]

20 hours ago, Nasrod said:

I want to share the product of a lot of brainstorming and theorycrafting. It's an attempt to use Arkhan as a durable, +2 anchor for casts/unbinds  while still maintaining the trademark durability of Petrifiex Elite lists to capitalize off his amazing regeneration passive for as long as possible. That durability is vulnerable most of all to ranged mortal wounds primarily generated through spellcasting; so the tl;dr is: "Protecting Arkhan protects the army."

 

I actually super like this list a lot. I need to pick up a second catapult to finish off my "competitive" build, but I could run yours too if I picked up some boxes for immortis guard. I may have to add that to my shopping cart whenever I can actually order minis again haha

[5kaven5lave]

Just had a couple of games with Mortek Guard. Crikey. Messed up my first game with my list above vs. Seraphon but wised up for a rematch and had my 2 units of 20 shrug off his magic phase and delete 500 points of my opponent’s army turn 1. So brutal 😍

[Rune]

On 4/23/2020 at 3:24 AM, 123lac said:

Hallo friends,

I currently have Arkhan as well as Nagash and I was looking through the Legions of Nagash roster and thought to myself...these old models kinda suck.

But luckily I can use both of these heroes in the bone daddies army.

So is anyone able to tell me if there is a viable build for Ossiarchs that includes both Nagash and Arkhan? Or should I be building a list around one or the other of these heroes?

Thanks!

This list won a 50 man tournament in Copenhagen back in February. His list had also won another tournament in Sweden. 

It's good. Definitely viable.

[123lac]

22 hours ago, Rune said:

This list won a 50 man tournament in Copenhagen back in February. His list had also won another tournament in Sweden. 

It's good. Definitely viable.

Thank you so much for finding that list! I'll only need to buy 2 boxes of guard, a Liege-Kavalos and the endless spells. All of which I like the look of. Excellent

[Scurvydog]

So what do people think of the WD battalions? I'm not too impressed and I think people will prefer other options... anyway for reference:

They all require Mortis Praetorians so I guess wont be in play in competetive much for that alone...

Vokmortians dread retinue is basically just the battle box setup with some scaleability, vokmortian, mortek, stalkers and morghasts. In the hero phase he can revive 1 model within 8" and 1 enemy hero will permanently be chosen to be at -1 to hit vs Vokmortian.

Harvester Scythe-Corps is 2 rider units and 1 harvester. Harvester get +1 wound roll when within 12" of riders (not wholly). This one comes with another major drawback as Vokmortian needs to be the general to take this... That is a bad tax on top...

[Nasrod]

Until Vokmortian is buffed there is no reason to take him. I think a fair buff is he gets +1 to cast and dispel when he's within 12" of an enemy, scaling to +2 if he is within 3" of an enemy general dying.

Something to reward how close they want him to enemies. End of the day he is 180 points for 6 wounds base +5 save... absolutely unusable, which is a crime given how amazing his model is. 

[chosen_of_khaine]

Honestly, the upside to Ossiarch Bonereapers being overall very high power level is that you can take sub-par units for fun and still make it work. After not losing a single game with several different Petrifex lists (not at tournaments or anything, mind you), I've settled on this as a more casual list that still has some punch:

Mortis Praetorians
Katakros - General
Vokmortian - Drain Vitality
2x20 Mortek Guard
10 Deathriders
3 Immortis Guard
Gothizzar Harvester
Nightmare Predator

I still have yet to lose a game with it, but most of the games are at least close and are much more fun for both players.

Edited May 3, 2020 by chosen_of_khaine

[Inferno]

Hi,

I  have rules question:

Can Nagash, heal himself with Invocation of Nagash ablity? 
Imo, he can as he gets OB keyword. 

[frostfire]

I know we are going through the quarantine but has any one played against the new seraphon since they came out for months?

They got some serious ranged damage and I think it would be a hard match up for OBR.