The Rumour Thread

[Ganigumo]

Afflicting units with diseases is a very nurgle mechanic, but even at the maximum number of points you're looking at 3-4 mortals on average. Whats really telling that the mechanic (and possibly the entire book) has issues is the phases they activate. Movement (which requires you to be in combat the previous round), and end of combat. This means any abilities which key off of enemy units being diseased, or how diseased they are might be a challenge to activate.
Disease and Plague weapons are also 2 of the allegiance abilities, and if we use warclans as an indication they'll only get 3 allegiance abilities.
Bookkeeping is an issue too, for wanting to focus on simplified rules in aos3 they created another rule thats seemingly low impact AND annoying to track.
 

My initial impression has me lump it in with kruleboyz in terms of design, which seems middling from a power perspective (which isn't an issue, we want books to be mid-tier) but has a bunch of weirdly complex and annoying rules that can be frustrating at times.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, Ganigumo said:

This means any abilities which key off of enemy units being diseased, or how diseased they are might be a challenge to activate.

At least disease points only ever drop to 1 at miniumum, so once a unit is sick it stays sick.

[Copywolf]

Also, once a unit hits 7 disease points, you don't need to worry about adding any more until after the battleshock phase.

[Lucentia]

Might've been simpler to have disease tokens cap at 1 but deal an automatic d3 mortal wounds instead.  But it depends what other effects (if any) can be tied into disease token count.  I don't hate it, but it is a little messy for a fairly low impact ability.

[PJetski]

Hey dude what if

What if we

Dude what if we turned this model

This stupid model into a game mechanic

Bro... I love it

Dude I'm so high right now

[ibel]

2 minutes ago, Lucentia said:

But it depends what other effects (if any) can be tied into disease token count.  I don't hate it, but it is a little messy for a fairly low impact ability.

I dont know if the Impact is so low.

Lets say i have 5 enemy Units in Combat with my BK and other. Lets say every enemy Unit procc 2-3 Mortals Wounds EVERY Battelshock Phase. So u have 10-15 Mortals EVERY Battelshock Phase, so Maybe 22 Mortals a Round. Same like 11 DragonArmySC !!

My Problem is: Are ur Units Durybel enough to stay 2-3 Rounds in Combat ?! Or are the Points so high that u didnt have Many Nurgle Units on the field ?!?!

[Ganigumo]

After some thinking their third allegiance ability is probably just summoning, getting points for diseased units instead of territory control.

5 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

At least disease points only ever drop to 1 at miniumum, so once a unit is sick it stays sick.

true but this could still be a big sticking point for the army, especially with the amount of powerful output in the game, needing to get through a round of combat to get your ability is no small feat sometimes. I know nurgle's thing IS durability, but its still a concern.
Presumably they'll have a spell to disease something at range (which they alluded to), but their casting has never been great so mileage will probably vary wildly based on matchup.

 

1 minute ago, Lucentia said:

Might've been simpler to have disease tokens cap at 1 but deal an automatic d3 mortal wounds instead.  But it depends what other effects (if any) can be tied into disease token count.  I don't hate it, but it is a little messy for a fairly low impact ability.

With how tough it seems to have abilities that scale with the number of disease tokens on a unit because of the phasing it feels like any abilities that get better with the number of tokens will be pretty tough to use. I think a binary system would've been better design as well. Would've been fitting for the mortals to be a horde buster ability to (roll for each model and on a 5/6+ they take a mortal), less impactful on elite stuff sure, but killing 10-20 grots with your allegiance ability would feel pretty good.

 

 

Just now, ibel said:

I dont know if the Impact is so low.

Lets say i have 5 enemy Units in Combat with my BK and other. Lets say every enemy Unit procc 2-3 Mortals Wounds EVERY Battelshock Phase. So u have 10-15 Mortals EVERY Battelshock Phase, so Maybe 22 Mortals a Round. Same like 11 DragonArmySC !!

My Problem is: Are ur Units Durybel enough to stay 2-3 Rounds in Combat ?! Or are the Points so high that u didnt have Many Nurgle Units on the field ?!?!

The delivery system is completely different. Stormcast dragons can hit pretty much any unit they want with it, nurgle is probably going to struggle to hit anything on the backline with the full effect.

[mojojojo101]

10 minutes ago, ibel said:

I dont know if the Impact is so low.

Lets say i have 5 enemy Units in Combat with my BK and other. Lets say every enemy Unit procc 2-3 Mortals Wounds EVERY Battelshock Phase. So u have 10-15 Mortals EVERY Battelshock Phase, so Maybe 22 Mortals a Round. Same like 11 DragonArmySC !!

My Problem is: Are ur Units Durybel enough to stay 2-3 Rounds in Combat ?! Or are the Points so high that u didnt have Many Nurgle Units on the field ?!?!

I think it will probably do a reasonable amount of damage in totality, as you point out. 

The problem is that the damage is unreliable, spread out and happens right at the end of the BS phase so you can't react to it (and it won't trigger BS tests either I think). It's also pretty easy to avoid, particularly for shooting armies.

In my experience unreliable, spread out damage is rarely worth it's points in a game that really favours focusing down key targets at a precise time.

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by mojojojo101

[ibel]

3 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

The delivery system is completely different. Stormcast dragons can hit pretty much any unit they want with it, nurgle is probably going to struggle to hit anything on the backline with the full effect.

If u can stay Long enough in CloseCombat i didnt even see a Problem here.

Especially if everything in Nurgle Army geht a 5+ Ward we are more durabel than many Armys. But jes the way it procc can be very Complecatet.

[ibel]

2 minutes ago, mojojojo101 said:

The problem is that the damage is unreliable, spread out and happens right at the end of the BS phase so you can't react to it (and it won't trigger BS tests either I think). It's also pretty easy to avoid, particularly for shooting armies.

In my experience unreliable, spread out damage is rarely worth it's points in a game that really favours focusing down key targets at a precise time.

jes could be.

But i think it trigger bevor BS Test because it happen "at the beginning of the BS pahse" so... or what u guys think ?

[mojojojo101]

4 minutes ago, ibel said:

jes could be.

But i think it trigger bevor BS Test because it happen "at the beginning of the BS pahse" so... or what u guys think ?

Ah, I misread the text the first time. The damage does happen at the beginning of the phase, so will affect BS tests, then the tokens are removed at the end of the phase, which I think is a bit odd but hey ho.

I don't think it's necessarily bad, but it doesn't really help get things done, when you really need them done.

[ibel]

3 minutes ago, mojojojo101 said:

I don't think it's necessarily bad, but it doesn't really help get things done, when you really need them done.

hey u really could be Right but if u stay Long enoungh in CC it may helps to win the fight and get dmg done (a really big Problem 4 Nurgle)

do u think "Munific Wanderers" will still exist ?! 

[mojojojo101]

18 minutes ago, ibel said:

hey u really could be Right but if u stay Long enoungh in CC it may helps to win the fight and get dmg done (a really big Problem 4 Nurgle)

do u think "Munific Wanderers" will still exist ?! 

It will definitely help win long drawn out fights, as a little bonus, but it doesn't feel like something to be relied upon, or to write lists around.

There is a section in the book for 'Plague Legions and Contagiums' I guess Munificent Wanderers will be in there, hopefully relatively unchanged.

[Chumphammer]

2 hours ago, EntMan said:

I may be missing something but I don't see how a unit can have more than 3 disease points. It gets reduced to 1 after battlshock and can have a max of 2 added next turn (1 after movement, 1 after fighting).

And you get herpes, and you get herpes, and you get herpes

you all get herpes! 

[Grimrock]

2 hours ago, Higolx said:

Not really? Leave a d6 at the side of enemy unit and use that to count. If you reach 7 you can use something else but Im not so sure how common getting to 7 is going to be.

Frankly I loved it. Its really translates to game well the idea of getting sicker as you fight nurgle

Actually with the way it degrades I think it might be better to do it in reverse. As soon as any unit has any disease you give it a token of some sort (since it'll stay with them for the rest of the game at a minimum of 1) and then you grab a d6 if you add any more throughout the turn. In battleshock you can take the dice away and leave the token.

Hard to speak to the strength right now, but it seems ok. It looks like a poor trade for the wheel, but it is very thematic and it definitely plays to a war of attrition where nurgle gradually wears away at the opponent. Spells and artifacts could make a huge difference in how much damage you cause throughout a game so we'll have to wait and see what we get.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Grimrock

[yukishiro1]

Good old Nurgle, God of disease, decay, and accounting. 

Hopefully the scrivener will have a special warlord trait table that lets you do things like amortize your disease tokens on an extended schedule, invest them to earn interest, or cash them out without having to pay capital gains tax by using a shell company based in the Eightpoints. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by yukishiro1

[Ogregut]

1 hour ago, mojojojo101 said:

Ah, I misread the text the first time. The damage does happen at the beginning of the phase, so will affect BS tests, then the tokens are removed at the end of the phase, which I think is a bit odd but hey ho.

I don't think it's necessarily bad, but it doesn't really help get things done, when you really need them done.

Where would you have it take effect? 

The start of the BS phase makes most sense for any bonus MW. 

[pixieproxy]

Getting real antsy on the timeframe for the balance update, any rumours on when it's actually coming?

[boyadventurer]

2 hours ago, Warfiend said:

Yeah leave a d6 along side it in addition to the wound counter and all spell effect counters, surely won’t be messy This is just bad game design. 

What a perfect opportunity to grab the new Nurgle-brand Virulent Dice-ease™ dice conveniently up for pre-order this weekend

[BaylorCorvette]

4 minutes ago, pixieproxy said:

Getting real antsy on the timeframe for the balance update, any rumours on when it's actually coming?

Same. I'm holding off on additional list building and thus model buying / building / painting until I know what changes are being made. I think we are assuming before end of year but I don't know that GW has actually made that commitment this FAQ pass?

[yukishiro1]

December usually means January. 

[pixieproxy]

1 minute ago, BaylorCorvette said:

Same. I'm holding off on additional list building and thus model buying / building / painting until I know what changes are being made. I think we are assuming before end of year but I don't know that GW has actually made that commitment this FAQ pass?

They've only said "December" and not much else.

[mojojojo101]

36 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

Where would you have it take effect? 

The start of the BS phase makes most sense for any bonus MW. 

Oh, I agree.

What I meant was it seems slightly odd that doing damage and removing tokens happen at opposite ends of the phase.

It doesn't really matter I suppose... just feels odd.

[Ganigumo]

11 minutes ago, mojojojo101 said:

Oh, I agree.

What I meant was it seems slightly odd that doing damage and removing tokens happen at opposite ends of the phase.

It doesn't really matter I suppose... just feels odd.

Just a hunch but they probably generate summon points in the battleshock phase, possibly at the end like slaanesh does, and the army probably uses the plague tokens to generate their summon points (either 1 for 1 or maybe 1 point for a diseased unit and 2 if its maxed out or something like that).
That way the points aren't counted if the unit is destroyed or runs away as its not infected anymore.

[Nezzhil]

6 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Mega gargant rumours:
- little less hp
- more cost so only 3 big on 2k
- count on obj degrede with wounds

Unclear if one of 3 or all 3

These are too many changes for a Balance Update. I think this is a wishlist.