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On 7/27/2020 at 11:29 AM, alghero81 said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/27/the-aelven-pantheon/
 

Nothing new but they point out to Malerion doing no-good and the Khainite warband: “We’ll have to wait and see to find out – but, perhaps, not for long. 

I'm very intrigued by this Khainite warband as it is basically outright stated that it belongs to Morathi...and yet it's nothing like her Daughters of Khaine faction. I thought for sure shadow aelves would belong to exclusively to Malerion, but here we have an example that says otherwise. So how do they fit in? Does she have another group in Ulgu outside of the DoK? Are they a subfaction? Will they be allowed in a DoK army in AoS? Is this a unique phenomenon? 

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17 minutes ago, Yeled said:

I'm very intrigued by this Khainite warband as it is basically outright stated that it belongs to Morathi...and yet it's nothing like her Daughters of Khaine faction. I thought for sure shadow aelves would belong to exclusively to Malerion, but here we have an example that says otherwise. So how do they fit in? Does she have another group in Ulgu outside of the DoK? Are they a subfaction? Will they be allowed in a DoK army in AoS? Is this a unique phenomenon? 

We'll have to see but the idea of keeping a cadre of spies and assassins that can manipulate the shadows of Ulgu is definitely something that would appeal to Morathi. The DoK are a powerful force but ultimately a pretty bloodthirsty cult of fanatics. Given their queen's goals, a more subtle weapon would probably be called for at least some of the time.

In terms of their shadowy powers, this seems to be coming from Morathi herself based on how the trailer says that they were reborn. Sounds like they could be a new variant of Scathborn mutant, though they seem a little un-grotesque for that. Maybe it's a power she can grant? She does turn people into gorgons after all, giving them shadow-magic might not be that difficult by comparison.

I'd imagine that for now they'll fit into a DoK army in much the same way as the Kurnothi UW warband fits into a Sylvaneth army.

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18 hours ago, Gistradagis said:

I lowkey (highkey) wish Malerion comes out with his dark elves and they happen to be Chaos, rather than the "we were bad but now we're good" meme-style of Morathi and daughters. You don't even need to make them allies per se to the Chaos God armies, just like how Skaven really isn't allied with them. A darker mirror to the Lumineth, and perhaps a more interesting take than "more elves for Order, but this time edgier."

Morathi seems more directly opposed to Slaanesh than chaos in general due to her history. A lot of the things they do does seem like it might be feeding khorne (blood for the blood god, murder, etc), and since Khaine is "dead" there is potential there for morathi to get "usurped" again but by a different chaos god this time. 

As far as Malerion's elves go I imagine his motivation will be to improve the elves. Morathi seeks power, Teclis seeks to recreate the old , Allarielle abandoned the old, and Malerion will seek to improve the elves. Specifically I'm imagining elves with dragon elements since Malerion is part dragon, but anything could do really. It would be reminiscent of the dark eldar, with stuff like scourges, wracks, mandrakes, etc. The elves of the old world weren't strong enough and malerion can use his power to make them better.

Also they've been dropping hints at the new dark elves being soon, but it does seem unlikely we'd just get a new army. I'm betting Orruk Warclans is the way battletomes will go though, and this new battletome will be "Aelves of Hysh" and contain the updated DoK rules, as well as the malerion stuff. Lumineth realmlords was also built in a way to accomodate the introduction of teclian forces in the same way.

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5 hours ago, Bayul said:

Wake me up when they show an undead parrot.

Does it have to be a Norwegian Blue?

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I see the Warcry band's connection to Morathi being the result of one of two things

1. It's a lore-based justification to explain a real-world problem: these guys are out before the army that they're designed to be a part of, so GW wrote an explanation to fit them in the closest currently existing force. It's the same situation as the Kurnothi/Sylvaneth and Snarlfangs/Gloomspite.

2. There is not Malekith dark elf revival, and the Shadow Elves will be an expansion to the DoK. This is going off the Warcom article that implied that Malekith doesn't even exist and it's all some scheme Morathi came up with. I don't like this idea so I'm going to pretend it's the first.

It'll be interesting to see whether or not the DoK will remain as an independent force after the release of the Shadow Elves. We might end up with a Warclans/Mawtribes situation, regardless of whether or not Malekith ends up being a real character.

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I really hope the 3 Starter Sets for 40K drop in October or with the New Codexes. I really don't want another pure 40K week between now and the , I know there are many more to come but this is a guaranteed one.

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2 hours ago, KriticalKhan said:

I see the Warcry band's connection to Morathi being the result of one of two things

1. It's a lore-based justification to explain a real-world problem: these guys are out before the army that they're designed to be a part of, so GW wrote an explanation to fit them in the closest currently existing force. It's the same situation as the Kurnothi/Sylvaneth and Snarlfangs/Gloomspite.

2. There is not Malekith dark elf revival, and the Shadow Elves will be an expansion to the DoK. This is going off the Warcom article that implied that Malekith doesn't even exist and it's all some scheme Morathi came up with. I don't like this idea so I'm going to pretend it's the first.

It'll be interesting to see whether or not the DoK will remain as an independent force after the release of the Shadow Elves. We might end up with a Warclans/Mawtribes situation, regardless of whether or not Malekith ends up being a real character.

can I just say for an alternative option. All males in DoK society are killed, enslaved or become weird sightless and mounted wizards. But the fluff for the executioners says they might worship Khaine. 
‘Skull- masked warriors wielding two- handed blades known as draichs, these aelves have devoted themselves entirely to the art of slaughter. Some say that they worship the aelf god Khaine, Lord of Murder, but the Executioners do not speak of their faith – indeed, they seldom speak
at all – to those outside their order.’

so that would mean they would worship Morathi. So these might be from that or a similar order from the free cities that worship Khaine/Morathi. 

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Posted (edited)

Log Entry Day 196:

Still no AoS news. Things are dire. I'm starting to forget how the Activation Wars work and the names of all the Fyreslayer units...

Edited by Mutton
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3 hours ago, KriticalKhan said:

I see the Warcry band's connection to Morathi being the result of one of two things

1. It's a lore-based justification to explain a real-world problem: these guys are out before the army that they're designed to be a part of, so GW wrote an explanation to fit them in the closest currently existing force. It's the same situation as the Kurnothi/Sylvaneth and Snarlfangs/Gloomspite.

2. There is not Malekith dark elf revival, and the Shadow Elves will be an expansion to the DoK. This is going off the Warcom article that implied that Malekith doesn't even exist and it's all some scheme Morathi came up with. I don't like this idea so I'm going to pretend it's the first.

It'll be interesting to see whether or not the DoK will remain as an independent force after the release of the Shadow Elves. We might end up with a Warclans/Mawtribes situation, regardless of whether or not Malekith ends up being a real character.

The Recent Aelven Pantheon article however states Malerion is plotting in the darkness and shadow daemons are in his employ. Also the classic lore states that Tyrion, Teclis and Malerion found Morathi, so I wouldn’t see much in that article unless we are close to a giant retcon. Morathi does have a pinch for using males as cannon fodder, so after wizard knights having spies would still fit the same trend. If every Warhammer underworld warband would one day have its own army we would be inundated by new armies... some will remain just hints...

On the topic of Skaven not getting anything I can’t believe GW let the year of the rat pass by without even a single wink...

In the End Times Nagash had 9 mortarchs. At the moment he has 5, of which 2 brand new.  Is it possible death is going towards that direction? It seems the old symbology is kept in the new armies and models although reimagined in AoS context. So a vampire faction with a new mortarch would not be impossible...

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What if Malerion did exist but Morathi has since disposed of him in order to assume control of Ulgu?

As someone else mentioned in the thread, shadow daemons were first referenced as being discovered ‘in the company’ of Morathi.

Some time between the Age of Myth / whenever we last know of Malerion’s actions in the timeline and now, she could have replaced him without anyone else knowing, using his influence and status to further her own goals and ambitions (in exactly the same way that she is already using Khaine — she has form!).

His employ of the same shadow daemons we knew Morathi associated herself with and the article about there being no Malerion could be pieces of the puzzle... 

 ... It’s not like she hasn’t tried to challenge him before! 

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12 hours ago, Warfiend said:

I think it might be possible that Malerion doesn’t have actual shadow demons in his army. Like we’ve seen from the few shadow aelves teased so far they wield the shadow like cloaks and I think the shadow demons are possibly another way that these aelves can manifest the shadows around them.

After all they are deceivers. 

The Ulgu aelves that we have seen so far are all Morathi’s and CoS, including the warband and that is coming. 

The demons in the Lumineth BT are called “shadow demons”, “darksome demons”, “creatures” that live in a “lair” and then get “utterly annihilated” by streams of light. It sounds more like real demons. 

If they don’t make one army out of DoK and Malerion’s aelves, while keeping all the CoS aelves, I think they’ll separate them artistically. And going for a more non-aelven style would be a possibility to do that. But that doesn’t mean of course that Malerion’s forces will only consist of shadow demons, and for sure they’ll have some shadow magic using aelves. Malerion could even have humans in his army, as they pose the majority of the population of Ulgu. 

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No strong feelings on it but I wonder if some of the more recent potential AOS rumour engines relate to a new Warhammer quest

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12 hours ago, PraetorDragoon said:

What about an army of Giant Crows?

I've read this as "Giant Cows" and was on my way to say "But we already have those".

And now I'm stuck thinking that AoS has gone so deep in fantasy that an army of Giant Crows would still not feel out of place in the setting.

 

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2 hours ago, The Brotherhood of Necros said:

What if Malerion did exist but Morathi has since disposed of him in order to assume control of Ulgu?

As someone else mentioned in the thread, shadow daemons were first referenced as being discovered ‘in the company’ of Morathi.

Some time between the Age of Myth / whenever we last know of Malerion’s actions in the timeline and now, she could have replaced him without anyone else knowing, using his influence and status to further her own goals and ambitions (in exactly the same way that she is already using Khaine — she has form!).

His employ of the same shadow daemons we knew Morathi associated herself with and the article about there being no Malerion could be pieces of the puzzle... 

 ... It’s not like she hasn’t tried to challenge him before! 

This really seems rather unlikely. Malerion is mentioned as the shadowy puppet master behind the scenes in the Soulbound RPG (which is developed together with GW to make it "lore conform"), and in the Lumineth BT, the newest BT we have, it straight out says that the Shadow Demons are his, and the Lumineth ambassador is sent to him, not to Morathi. Morathi, Malerion, Teclis and Tyrion also still seem to meet and discuss matters - I think someone would have noticed if Malerion is disposed or something like that. The other gods managed to see her real form through her illusions, so it's not like she has the power to easily deceive them with her magic. It's also not like the two Ms are in full control of Ulgu or even close to that. 

GW just doesn't have an army for Malerion yet, so we do not get a lot of information on him. Same is true for Tyrion. The blurb about Tyrion in the community article was also more of a joke. We know where he is - in Hysh defending the Lumineth nations from Chaos. That, or what GW wrote in the Lumineth BT and several previous products is wrong.

Of course it's always kind of pointless to discuss these things because in the end, GW can do what they want, without having to adhere to any kind of logic, inner coherency or what ever. If they can't come up with a good model, and think there are enough aelf factions around, they could do something like that, and basically show a finger to all the people who waited for Malerion for 7+ years. 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

This really seems rather unlikely. Malerion is mentioned as the shadowy puppet master behind the scenes in the Soulbound RPG (which is developed together with GW to make it "lore conform"), and in the Lumineth BT, the newest BT we have, it straight out says that the Shadow Demons are his, and the Lumineth ambassador is sent to him, not to Morathi. Morathi, Malerion, Teclis and Tyrion also still seem to meet and discuss matters - I think someone would have noticed if Malerion is disposed or something like that. The other gods managed to see her real form through her illusions, so it's not like she has the power to easily deceive them with her magic. It's also not like the two Ms are in full control of Ulgu or even close to that. 

GW just doesn't have an army for Malerion yet, so we do not get a lot of information on him. Same is true for Tyrion. The blurb about Tyrion in the community article was also more of a joke. We know where he is - in Hysh defending the Lumineth nations from Chaos. That, or what GW wrote in the Lumineth BT and several previous products is wrong.

Of course it's always kind of pointless to discuss these things because in the end, GW can do what they want, without having to adhere to any kind of logic, inner coherency or what ever. If they can't come up with a good model, and think there are enough aelf factions around, they could do something like that, and basically show a finger to all the people who waited for Malerion for 7+ years. 

 

This all makes much more sense, you’re right. I haven’t got around to reading Soulbound yet and didn’t know Malerion featured so prominently, so that’s my bad. I also should have said ‘more’ control over Ulgu. I just got excited for a moment wondering at it all but you’re right, it’s rather pointless chatting about these things until we hear from GW itself. 

Edited by The Brotherhood of Necros

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Their control over Ulgu seems fairly decent given that Malerion kept his forces back defensively and defeated Archaon? Lots of Slaanesh Hedonites and daemons raiding drawn to daddy tho of course

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55 minutes ago, The Brotherhood of Necros said:

This all makes much more sense, you’re right. I haven’t got around to reading Soulbound yet and didn’t know Malerion featured so prominently, so that’s my bad. I also should have said ‘more’ control over Ulgu. I just got excited for a moment wondering at it all but you’re right, it’s rather pointless chatting about these things until we hear from GW itself. 

Nothing to say sorry! And speculation is  what this forum is for : )

Re-reading my post it sounds harsher than I intended (probably subconsciously still pissed about Endtimes lol). I just think it would disappoint many people  if GW would just make Malerion irrelevant after teasing him in several of their publications. It's not impossible, but I hope they are not going to do that. 

Malerion doesn't really appear prominently in Soulbound. He has the same treatment as most the other gods (a two page entry. Tyrion and Kurnoth just have smaller entries along Teclis and Alarielle). But it's made clear that he is still the overall boss in Ulgu (if there is something like that at all in Ulgu). Morathi is described as a "growing nuisance" to him. If you find the time, read through the various Realm and god entries there, it's really good for a look into what's up with everything right now. 

Ulgu seems super interesting, I hope we get more information on it, either in a new DoK BT or Malerion related. 

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3 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

. Tyrion and Kurnoth just have smaller entries along Teclis and Alarielle)

There is mentions of Kurnoth? I was kind of hoping he would get a mention in that Aelven Patheon article, even just the he is only mostly dead .. his forces are the only Aelf-type faction I'm holding out for. 

On the dwarf side of things I'd hope they would have Grungni out on his own- he seems to have been working under Sigmar too much for my liking. I'd love some hints on the return of Valaya and maybe the lesser dwarf pantheon - Grombindal and Bugman..

In terms of releases Warcry really only holds any hope of something new to catch my eye - really interested to see how they expand the war bands available. I'd love to see Kurnothi but a dwarf one could be interesting - something like a dwarf ranger war band would fit or a Kharadron exploration/scouting force. The kits are a nice size so buying just for a single box without fully adopting the faction looks tempting. 

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15 minutes ago, silverstu said:

There is mentions of Kurnoth? I was kind of hoping he would get a mention in that Aelven Patheon article, even just the he is only mostly dead .. his forces are the only Aelf-type faction I'm holding out for. 

On the dwarf side of things I'd hope they would have Grungni out on his own- he seems to have been working under Sigmar too much for my liking. I'd love some hints on the return of Valaya and maybe the lesser dwarf pantheon - Grombindal and Bugman..

In terms of releases Warcry really only holds any hope of something new to catch my eye - really interested to see how they expand the war bands available. I'd love to see Kurnothi but a dwarf one could be interesting - something like a dwarf ranger war band would fit or a Kharadron exploration/scouting force. The kits are a nice size so buying just for a single box without fully adopting the faction looks tempting. 

I like that post!!

Is there any hint for wave 2 kits for AoS armies?

I mean, if your army can take any Fantasy models (or SCE), then your army probably has a lot of unique and diferent units to play with.

But if your army was 100% created in AoS, it probably has an small roster. And the only thing that I saw in the lasts years are the called  "soap battletomes" to create new "Big Armies" but this can only work in some armies like Orruks Warclans or even Malerion and Morathi Aelfs, but not sure if it will work for Fyrelsayers and KOs.

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On 7/28/2020 at 8:05 AM, JPjr said:

Is that a raven or a crow?

I wonder if this has anything to do with Lethis? They are also called the Raven City and Forbidden Power goes into some detail about how they worship a death god that uses raven symbolism.

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13 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Is that a raven or a crow?

I wonder if this has anything to do with Lethis? They are also called the Raven City and Forbidden Power goes into some detail about how they worship a death god that uses raven symbolism.

Probably a crow, although the distinction is not nearly as clear cut as most assume. Crows are any birds of the Corvus genus, which includes various species called "crow x" or "raven y" among others. So all ravens are crows, but not all crows are ravens. Ravens are typically the larger species. Being a photograph of a little plastic model, I don't think a precise taxonomic classification is possible form the available evidence.

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15 hours ago, Kramer said:

can I just say for an alternative option. All males in DoK society are killed, enslaved or become weird sightless and mounted wizards. But the fluff for the executioners says they might worship Khaine. 
‘Skull- masked warriors wielding two- handed blades known as draichs, these aelves have devoted themselves entirely to the art of slaughter. Some say that they worship the aelf god Khaine, Lord of Murder, but the Executioners do not speak of their faith – indeed, they seldom speak
at all – to those outside their order.’

so that would mean they would worship Morathi. So these might be from that or a similar order from the free cities that worship Khaine/Morathi. 

I would guess that Morathi's spies and assassins, and indeed the Executioner regiments, can include male aelves in the same way in the medieval Church women could be Christians - the Temples and the Daughters of Khaine represent the "clergy" and the religious communes and communities built around Morathi and her supporters - here the males "born of the Cauldron" are remade into the wretched labour classes, some of which then "rise" to become Doomfire Warlocks. However, presumably there are - both in the Free Cities and in the Temple-Cities of the Daughters themselves - "lay" communities that work in more skilled civilian positions supporting the wretched male aelves and making sure that the Daughters can devote themselves to improving their devoted acts of slaughter without needing to become architects or bakers or trade pioneers. Most of these populations are probably either devoted Khainites or unfocused, venerating Khaine or the wider pantheon of Order passively. The males here are not under Morathi's /direct/ control, but also cannot rise to become a threat to her, and so probably aren't bound by the same rules or treated with the same hostility, and indeed many could swear oaths of silence and become Executioners dedicated to their sorceress, or else be recruited by Morathi and her inner circle to serve as shades/assassins/spies/all the other old World-that-Was Khainite roles that males could perform - the criteria is almost certainly utter devotion to the High Oracle above all others, and much like the Bloodwrack Medusae represent Queens who rose too high and threatened Morathi, I have no doubt that there are some cruel "honours" for a male assassin who Morathi decides might be a threat.

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25 minutes ago, MaatithoftheBrand said:

I would guess that Morathi's spies and assassins, and indeed the Executioner regiments, can include male aelves in the same way in the medieval Church women could be Christians - the Temples and the Daughters of Khaine represent the "clergy" and the religious communes and communities built around Morathi and her supporters - here the males "born of the Cauldron" are remade into the wretched labour classes, some of which then "rise" to become Doomfire Warlocks. However, presumably there are - both in the Free Cities and in the Temple-Cities of the Daughters themselves - "lay" communities that work in more skilled civilian positions supporting the wretched male aelves and making sure that the Daughters can devote themselves to improving their devoted acts of slaughter without needing to become architects or bakers or trade pioneers. Most of these populations are probably either devoted Khainites or unfocused, venerating Khaine or the wider pantheon of Order passively. The males here are not under Morathi's /direct/ control, but also cannot rise to become a threat to her, and so probably aren't bound by the same rules or treated with the same hostility, and indeed many could swear oaths of silence and become Executioners dedicated to their sorceress, or else be recruited by Morathi and her inner circle to serve as shades/assassins/spies/all the other old World-that-Was Khainite roles that males could perform - the criteria is almost certainly utter devotion to the High Oracle above all others, and much like the Bloodwrack Medusae represent Queens who rose too high and threatened Morathi, I have no doubt that there are some cruel "honours" for a male assassin who Morathi decides might be a threat.

Sounds logical, the only 'trouble' with GW is that they leave little hooks like this all over the place that they never built from. But that's such a good problem to have imo :D 

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1 hour ago, silverstu said:

There is mentions of Kurnoth? I was kind of hoping he would get a mention in that Aelven Patheon article, even just the he is only mostly dead .. his forces are the only Aelf-type faction I'm holding out for. 

On the dwarf side of things I'd hope they would have Grungni out on his own- he seems to have been working under Sigmar too much for my liking. I'd love some hints on the return of Valaya and maybe the lesser dwarf pantheon - Grombindal and Bugman..

In terms of releases Warcry really only holds any hope of something new to catch my eye - really interested to see how they expand the war bands available. I'd love to see Kurnothi but a dwarf one could be interesting - something like a dwarf ranger war band would fit or a Kharadron exploration/scouting force. The kits are a nice size so buying just for a single box without fully adopting the faction looks tempting. 

Yes there is. He is revered to as one of the lesser gods that the Sylvaneth worship. And also some others like humans and aelves when they go on hunts. His worship is confined mostly to Ghyran. The rest of the information is almost all about the Kurnothi Hunters and the Wild Hunt. 

That’s one of the good “problems” of AoS, there are so many interesting directions they can go, extend and update existing armies, Kurnothi, Malerion’s forces, Tyrion’s Lumineth, Grungni duradin, all kinds of vampires, stuff no one has on their minds like the insect faction we might see in Underworlds and whatnot.

I’m just happy that finally after 5 years I got “my” army, and no pretty much can relax and see what comes next. 

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