The Rumour Thread

[CommissarRotke]

2 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

They're paid, and were at the bottom of the preview article. You can buy all 12 for the price of 10, or buy them individually. 1 every 2 days.

is that first logo for Horus Heresy? their specialist game is getting as many short stories as AOS?

Edited November 27, 2023 by CommissarRotke

[BarakUrbaz]

12 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

 

is that first logo for Horus Heresy? their specialist game is getting as many short stories as AOS?

You know that the Horus Heresy game system only exists because the novels sold so well? Its like damn near a quarter of Black Library's output. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by BarakUrbaz

[pnkdth]

2 hours ago, Sception said:

There's a trade off to it.  On the one hand, yeah, if you don't remember what 'terror' does you need to look it up separately (though in practice you'll likely be looking at the unit entry in some sort of app or 3rd party army builder or wahapedia page where the word "terror" will either have the terror rules printed next to it or will be a link to what the rule terror does.

The benefit of the trade is that the terror rule will work the same for every terrifying unit.  You won't have one concept with half a dozen different subtly different rules implementations across various units in different factions.  If there's a core bodyguard rule, for instance, you won't have to remember that this one works on mortal wounds and that one doesn't, or that this one works on a 2+ and that one works on a 4+, & so on.  If a unit causes fear, then that fear will work the same as all other fear, you won't have one unit's fear that imposes a bravery penalty (non stacking) vs. another that imposes a bravery penalty (does stack) vs a third units fear (no bravery penalty, but extra casualties if a battleshock test fails) vs. a fourth units fear (none of that other stuff but prevents inspiring presence), and so on and so on.

In a keyword special rules system it's possible to actually memorize how all the special rules work, at which point you only need to know which special rules a unit has.  In a bespoke special rules system there's no way to memorize how everything in the game works, so you have to take the time to carefully read what each of your opponents units does each game.

...

I'm not saying the keyword route is better - I personally prefer bespoke special rules for the extra uniqueness and specificity they allow.  But there are enough tradeoffs that I'm not upset that TOW is going back to the keyword system.

Exactly, I like how I can immediately figure out what kind of unit the Shaggoth is just by looking at this. Since each rule is universal you do not have to return to the battletome every time, know every other battletome inside out, to understand/remember what different units do.

I have no strong feeling either way though. In my ideal world there would be hybrid system, i.e. bespoke rules when necessary. With a strong foundation of USRs it also makes erratas and changes work more seamlessly. In other words, [ insert "why not both?" meme here ]

[MitGas]

35 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

shame got nothing to do with it: no imperium dreck for AOS please 

What kind of commissar are you exactly? That‘s pretty heretical!

[mojojojo101]

2 hours ago, Sception said:

The benefit of the trade is that the terror rule will work the same for every terrifying unit.  ...

You don't need to use keywords not printed on the warscroll to do this though. It just needs some consistency about how rules are written, which GW seem to be getting much better at now.

Just write what the model does on the warscroll, that way, if I forget the exact phrasing of the rule, I don't have to get another book just to check, because it's written right infront of me. I don't undestand what is gained from not printing the rule on the warscroll other than making more space to add even more rules.

 

[CommissarRotke]

31 minutes ago, BarakUrbaz said:

You know that the Horus Heresy game system only exists because the novels sold so well? Its like damn near a quarter of Black Library's output. 

yeah okay you got me there, silly me for thinking those 40-some novels wouldn't spill over

16 minutes ago, MitGas said:

What kind of commissar are you exactly? That‘s pretty heretical!

one who enjoys the fact that fantasy IPs have none 😜

 

14 minutes ago, mojojojo101 said:

Just write what the model does on the warscroll, that way, if I forget the exact phrasing of the rule, I don't have to get another book just to check, because it's written right infront of me. I don't undestand what is gained from not printing the rule on the warscroll other than making more space to add even more rules.

also this 1000% ... stop making the rules explanations so wordy and you could fit simple, concise explanations for USRs *on warscrolls* like how Magic TG often does their USRs.

[Ganigumo]

11 minutes ago, mojojojo101 said:

You don't need to use keywords not printed on the warscroll to do this though. It just needs some consistency about how rules are written, which GW seem to be getting much better at now.

Just write what the model does on the warscroll, that way, if I forget the exact phrasing of the rule, I don't have to get another book just to check, because it's written right infront of me. I don't undestand what is gained from not printing the rule on the warscroll other than making more space to add even more rules.

 

What's funny about this is that I suspect this is why Kruleboyz venom encrusted weapons is an allegiance ability instead of a warscroll ability.
They wanted to cut down on the number of rules on scrolls at the start of the edition, especially for battleline units, and making VEW an allegiance ability gave them the room to put the skareshields ability on the gutrippa scroll (and other abilities elsewhere).

There are some "universal rules" in 40k, like the smoke stratagem that seem very similar to me, by pulling the ability off the scroll and throwing it somewhere else it makes the datasheet "less complex" or lets them fit an extra rule on the sheet because of space/design constraints.

Obviously its the exact same amount of complexity, since the units still have the ability though, its just organized differently. You're just moving the complexity to a different part of the rules. With the kruleboyz example it cost them a proper allegiance ability, and with the 40k one it bloated out the universal stratagems and USRs.

[Ejecutor]

54 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

is that first logo for Horus Heresy? their specialist game is getting as many short stories as AOS?

I was thinking exactly the same earlier. Is 30k as succesful as AoS?

[EntMan]

15 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Is 30k as succesful as AoS?

Do we ever get stuff this explicit in the annual report? I'd be interesting to know proportionately how much each system brings in.

[Ejecutor]

1 minute ago, EntMan said:

Do we ever get stuff this explicit in the annual report? I'd be interesting to know proportionately how much each system brings in.

I think is the forever question for some of us. It would seed lot of light and we could properly answer those that always talk ****** about AoS (for good or bad xD)

[Bosskelot]

The success of a tabletop game and it's success as a Lore vehicle to sell novels are not interlinked.

AOS by a lot of metrics is the 2nd most popular tabletop game around, but it is basically non-existent outside of that. A paucity of novels, absolutely barren lore discussion communities, dead wiki's, 0 man-talk-lore presence on youtube outside of 2+tough and even the fun meme-based communities that are supposedly named after the system like r/Sigmarxism talk more about 40k than AOS.

This is the complete opposite of 30k which has probably done more to keep Black Library afloat over the last 20 years than anything else they publish, and takes up 70% of all lore discussion, youtube videos and memes online about 40k itself, and yet the last time I saw anybody playing 30k the game was a year and a half ago.

[Talas]

30k has never appeared on the list of the top-selling lines of miniatures:
https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/54781/games-workshop-slims-down-channel-battletech-bulks-up-d-d-declines

[Beliman]

I prefer if there aren't an insane amount of USR. With just a few thay are easy to remember is enough

But I'm fine if there are a lot of them, but I hope that the Specialist Team don't write TOW rules as Age of Darkness.

Really, it's crazy, between rules that are part of the weapons, others that are in the armory section and others that are in the main Special Abilities...

 

[CommissarRotke]

6 minutes ago, Bosskelot said:

This is the complete opposite of 30k which has probably done more to keep Black Library afloat over the last 20 years than anything else they publish, and takes up 70% of all lore discussion, youtube videos and memes online about 40k itself, and yet the last time I saw anybody playing 30k the game was a year and a half ago.

dang yea this is nail on the head.

i've seen people who lament how much favoritism Marines get still buying 30k/new primaris so. yea.

[Noserenda]

Yeah the absolute worst implementation of USRs ever seen makes playing 30k a big pain right now, having to find every weapon and rules buried in a haystack is not good. Id guess too much testing focused on fairly straightforward basic marine on basic marine fights and not enough on anything else really.

To the end that making my own datacards is the only way to make it playable for my Sisters of Silence with their mound of special rules and i still forget some ! 

Really hope theyve learned from that for ToW, at least epic seems better.

[Noserenda]

And especially when only one unit has a certain special rule, just write it on the units entry! The future proofing isnt worth having to hunt it down! 

[Ejecutor]

I've been thinking about what could be the main grand alliance in the upcoming 4th ed plot.

In 1st we had an Order vs Chaos box, but I think we can agree that the predominant GA was Order, with all the comeback after long time seeing how Chaos was doing what they wanted.

For the 2nd we got an Order vs Death, and the main focus was Nagash and its Necroquake. So clearly Death focused.

In the current one we got Kragnos and Era of the beast. Maybe this time was not that clear, but the predominance has been destro.

So, following this pattern and the rumours about another Order vs Chaos box, what about the focus being in Chaos for the 4th ed? Archaon has been quite quiet for a few and there was rumours about chorfs breaking those sweet Azyr gates, but we also have Belakor and his storms plot. We could see the real purpose of all his moves finally, or even a battle between both for the Chaos supremacy.

What do you think guys?

[BarakUrbaz]

Keep in mind the rumors about Chorfs breaking the Allgate to Azyr for Archaon was from a rumor that claimed to predict the entirety of the 3E release schedule and was pretty much proven wrong pretty quickly. I mean, it literally said that Flesh Eater Courts won't get any updates because quote "They're NPC as ******, and their appeal is in their simplicity". 

[Ledgington]

SoulBound: Ulfenkarn: Citiy on the Edge of Death is releasing digitally on Thursday 30th. Finally, it was about a year ago that they last suggested it was going to come out ‘soon’.

 

https://cubicle7games.com/blog/Ulfenkarn: City on the Edge of Death

[Baron Klatz]

1 hour ago, BarakUrbaz said:

Keep in mind the rumors about Chorfs breaking the Allgate to Azyr for Archaon was from a rumor that claimed to predict the entirety of the 3E release schedule and was pretty much proven wrong pretty quickly. I mean, it literally said that Flesh Eater Courts won't get any updates because quote "They're NPC as ******, and their appeal is in their simplicity". 

Yeah I put that rumor out of mind as soon as they said “don’t read more unless you want the entire plot to 4th edition’s start spoiled”, it was so arrogant and obviously riding the Chuardin wishlist hype the hobgrotz started I knew it was hot air.

As for actual plot theories I imagine we’ll zoom in on the Hammerhal Aqshy siege Tahlia was sent back to break.

Skaven the main focus at first as their numerous plots across the Realms(capping leylines with machines, unleashing new plagues, Eshin making moves to retake Ulgu, Gnarlwoods having a magic bursting point Moulder can exploit) going over their new refreshes before it turns to that second siege force, Khornites, that sees ascended Khul take on a new form of Vandus.

Also whatever’s stirring under the main religious Fyreslayer Lodge will erupt and give them new elemental units and the force that’s causing the Fuethan Deepkin in Aqshy to be raiding more desperately will either get revealed as more Slaanesh, Skaven sub fleet or those Abyssals.

But that’s just a Realms theory!

[Ejecutor]

1 hour ago, Baron Klatz said:

Yeah I put that rumor out of mind as soon as they said “don’t read more unless you want the entire plot to 4th edition’s start spoiled”, it was so arrogant and obviously riding the Chuardin wishlist hype the hobgrotz started I knew it was hot air.

As for actual plot theories I imagine we’ll zoom in on the Hammerhal Aqshy siege Tahlia was sent back to break.

Skaven the main focus at first as their numerous plots across the Realms(capping leylines with machines, unleashing new plagues, Eshin making moves to retake Ulgu, Gnarlwoods having a magic bursting point Moulder can exploit) going over their new refreshes before it turns to that second siege force, Khornites, that sees ascended Khul take on a new form of Vandus.

Also whatever’s stirring under the main religious Fyreslayer Lodge will erupt and give them new elemental units and the force that’s causing the Fuethan Deepkin in Aqshy to be raiding more desperately will either get revealed as more Slaanesh, Skaven sub fleet or those Abyssals.

But that’s just a Realms theory!

Spoiler from the 3rd Dawnbringers book:
 

Spoiler

I didn't read it yet, just listened to some videos summarising it, but I think the siege is already over. Thalia sorted it.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Ejecutor

[EntMan]

This is just from my head and based on nothing. But as, like it or not, AoS in many ways mirrors or follows 40k, I had been thinking that maybe we are seeing the AoS version of the Great Crusade, and maybe it'll initially play out well for Sigmar but all go wrong with betrayal as he nears the completion of his grand plan. Stormcast civil war.

But maybe in AoS case the corruption will be by Death, rather than Chaos, as Stormcast start to be increasingly dissatisfied with the reforging process and some begin to switch to Nagash.

Edit: I should have said, this is in relation to all the posts above about possible future direction of AoS

Edited November 28, 2023 by EntMan

[Grungnisson]

14 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

shame got nothing to do with it: no imperium dreck for AOS please & thank you.

COS got a sniper on an ogor, let's see duardin riding ogors as cavalry next

I now want a minig pony, two barrels hanging off its back one on each side, a Quarreler with a heavy crossbow in each barrel.

[Tonhel]

For Skaven, what plastic kits would be fine to purchase right now? I still think the clanrats and stormvermin look great. Imo, these don't need a replacement. What kits could and should be replaced?

I have the Island of Blood pushfit clanrats and imo, they are still fantastic. I prefer to have new plague monks in the AoS 4th edition starterset instead of new clanrats.

[Ejecutor]

3 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

For Skaven, what plastic kits would be fine to purchase right now? I still think the clanrats and stormvermin look great. Imo, these don't need a replacement. What kits could and should be replaced?

I have the Island of Blood pushfit clanrats and imo, they are still fantastic. I prefer to have new plague monks in the AoS 4th edition starterset instead of new clanrats.

I think it is pretty tricky to guess. Depending on how big the refresh is we could even get a full replacement into a new AoS asthetic on those kits that still hold decently.