The Rumour Thread

[Matrindur]

I just looked through the old rumour engines and it has been quite a while since one was solved.

The last solved rumour engine where two for the Inquisitorial warband solved on the 1st of May.

Before that every we had a rumour engine solved every month since November 2021. And that was only a single month pause so three months now is quite a long time

Over the whole lifespan of the rumour engine there where only 5 months without solving one which where:
11.2021
08.2021
06.2021
09.2018
06.2017

So three months in a row is quite strange.

Wonder if that was planned or if something went wrong?

Edited August 15, 2023 by Matrindur

[zilberfrid]

18 minutes ago, Boingrot Bouncer said:

Yeah, it's one thing to loose a hero to spell with limited range so you can at least have a chance to position the hero out of range or to normal wounds which you have a chance to defend against.

 

But unlimited range MW is bad design no matter if it's comets call or this prayer since you as a player can not do anything to try to mitigate the effects, and this is to all your mage/priests on the board.

(Functionally) unlimited mw you can't hide from is exactly why Sentinels were so hated.

Edited August 15, 2023 by zilberfrid

[EntMan]

3 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

(Functionally) unlimited mw you can't hide from is exactly why Sentinels were so hated.

What if instead of automatically being able to target all wizards you could target one wizard for each spell the opposition cast the previous round? (Not necessarily only able to target the wizard that actually cast)

[Doko]

sentinels were hates because they kill our heroes each turn,but this model need 5 turns to kill the hero.

zelestra 150 for 1 mortal and cant be spamed because it is unique

 

sentinels 160 for 3 mortals that can be spamed so we can bring 20 or 30 sentinels to do 6/9 mortals and kill one or two heroes each turn

i think numbers speak by itself.

 

if zelestra were a prayer with 1+ to cast i could agree with the people,but a 3+ and then other 2+ makes her horrible,time gonna tell who was rigth but i think she wont be used and if she is used is only for the ward

[Snarff]

2 hours ago, Ejecutor said:

An executioner of course! No one would be left unpunished

Oooh, Whitefang react! Things seem increasingly great for FeC!

I would love for the Ghoul King to get his Ghoul Queen too, just like what was described in Ghoulslayer.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Snarff

[novakai]

27 minutes ago, Matrindur said:

I just looked through the old rumour engines and it has been quite a while since one was solved.

The last solved rumour engine where two for the Inquisitorial warband solved on the 1st of May.

Before that every we had a rumour engine solved every month since November 2021. And that was only a single month pause so three months now is quite a long time

Over the whole lifespan of the rumour engine there where only 5 months without solving one which where:
11.2021
08.2021
06.2021
09.2018
06.2017

So three months in a row is quite strange.

Wonder if that was planned or if something went wrong?

They did say they where moving warehouse though I am not sure how much it affected them

i have notice that some of the oldest rumor engines tend to be exclusive miniatures like the ghoul king or the Warhammer plus models and they often take forever to be revealed 

[Ejecutor]

FEC Executioner confirmed? 😏

[Snarff]

The StD, Seraphon, Sylvaneth, Slaanesh, Lumineth, SBG, SoB and Nighthaunt expansions have been fantastic and thematically near perfect, and really completed those ranges (bar a few kits still to be updated like Dryads and Temple Guard and the remaining still to be updated Empire kits and non humans in CoS).

IJ and FeC sound like they're going to get exactly the same, with IJ even fixing the Ardboyz!

Skaven and BoC are larger projects of course, but I cannot wait to see proper updates for other factions after these all turned out so great!

FS, IDK, KO, Bonesplitterz, Beastclaw Raiders, and even armies like OBR could use the same!

And then there are the single hero releases with tomes which would now be perfect for getting rid of the outdated and old resin sculpts, like the Curseling.

If things continue at this pace, a lot of armies will simply feel 'complete' (like SCE, Nighthaunt, StD, etc.) in a few years, which leaves a lot of room for new factions. I'm really looking forward to AoS4, especially with some of the QoL and rule improvements from 10th 40k in there!

[Ejecutor]

49 minutes ago, Matrindur said:

I just looked through the old rumour engines and it has been quite a while since one was solved.

The last solved rumour engine where two for the Inquisitorial warband solved on the 1st of May.

Before that every we had a rumour engine solved every month since November 2021. And that was only a single month pause so three months now is quite a long time

Over the whole lifespan of the rumour engine there where only 5 months without solving one which where:
11.2021
08.2021
06.2021
09.2018
06.2017

So three months in a row is quite strange.

Wonder if that was planned or if something went wrong?

Maybe related to the warehouse moving?

[Beliman]

19 minutes ago, Doko said:

also i could argue that get situations of very bad luck is fun also.

what are the chances of kroak getting a misscast,getting 3 mortals wounds to himself and failling the check and then killing himself? pretty sure are around 1% but that happened in my club and was hilarious and everyone in my club remember that as something epic and fun,but nobody remember when kroak only did his job and didnt faill his cast.

Maybe we should start a new post, but to make it clear, IMO, it's fun when you have some type of interaction when something attack or kill your models. In your case, kroak's player was the one rolling dice for his/her Kroak.

Btw, I remember a game in 2.0, my Ironclad was destroyed and my Ironstar's Admiral was still killed cause I rolled two 1s in a row. But I was the one making that rolls and that alone was enough to turn that situation in to a lot of laughs. Same ending as your Kroak's story.

[Mutton]

The Pontifex is exactly like Skragrott when their latest book released. She's going to be taken in every single list until she gets bumped up to around 240--and even then, she'll probably be in most lists because her utility is bonkers. Her unlimited wizard nuke is stupid, bad NPE by the way.

And if we're going to talk about under costed Cities units...that Alchemist Warforger is at least 50 points too cheap for having a free mystic shield every turn and one of the best prayers in the game.

[novakai]

I be more iff about the 5+ ward to be honest

comparing to the lady of vines 5+ ward it has

better range

Is a pray not a spell so your opponent doesn’t get the option to stop it

maybe slightly more reliable to get off (3+ on one dice over 7+ on two dice of course there are ways for sylvaneth to reroll the casting roll) 

only downside is you have to be in your teritory to use it.

but then again this is only one of her three ability and she much cheaper then most named character in this weight class

[SilentSentinel]

Between the fairly imminent Ironjawz/gitz releases and what is seemingly shaping up to be a hopefully fairly big upcoming Flesh eaters release at the end of this year or early next year I fear I may die from hype overdoes! Flesh eater courts have always been an army I've loved the concept of but have never bought into due to how small and old some of the range was.

That being said the old/current ghoul kit has grown on me so If it not being updated means we maybe get an extra kit of something new I don't mind it remaining as it is.

Edited August 15, 2023 by SilentSentinel

[Ganigumo]

1 hour ago, Doko said:

i dont wanna sound hard,but math dont lie never.

this model cost 150 and only makes 1 mortal to each mage/priest of median.

so gonna need full 5 turns(entire one game) to kill them.

yes i know many persons gonna cry when this hero kill his heroes in two turns doing 3 mortals each turn,but then in maths that gonna means that the same number of people gonna get 0 damage of this skill for two turns and do nothing.

dont get me wrong,this hero is good,but she is very far of being overpower or undercosted because his skills are too much random and she is named.

even inside of cities,a hurricanum can kill heroes more reliably and fast than this hero.

of course againsth lumimeths or tzenth this hero can be better,but against the normal 1/2 mages of every army this hero isnt good

The average damage of the pontifex (d3 mortals on a 3+) is 1.33.
That's ignoring the fact that it hits multiple targets, and can easily spike damage, or that you can bring other long range effects that don't target, so you can finish things off if you do spike.
Also this is in addition to an 18" 5+ ward aura, which is the primary reason you bring it, and the pontifex would still be undercosted if that is the only thing the prayer could do. A prayer on a 3+ is more reliable than a spell on a 7.

36 minutes ago, Doko said:

sentinels were hates because they kill our heroes each turn,but this model need 5 turns to kill the hero.

zelestra 150 for 1 mortal and cant be spamed because it is unique

 

sentinels 160 for 3 mortals that can be spamed so we can bring 20 or 30 sentinels to do 6/9 mortals and kill one or two heroes each turn

i think numbers speak by itself.

 

if zelestra were a prayer with 1+ to cast i could agree with the people,but a 3+ and then other 2+ makes her horrible,time gonna tell who was rigth but i think she wont be used and if she is used is only for the ward

Mystical terrain can bump her up to chanting on a 2+. Sentinels are a different kind of unit. This ability is more akin to comets call from seraphon. The core rules were basically changed so sentinels can't shoot heroes anymore, and sentinels are kind of good against everything.

3 minutes ago, Mutton said:

The Pontifex is exactly like Skragrott when their latest book released. She's going to be taken in every single list until she gets bumped up to around 240--and even then, she'll probably be in most lists because her utility is bonkers. Her unlimited wizard nuke is stupid, bad NPE by the way.

And if we're going to talk about under costed Cities units...that Alchemist Warforger is at least 50 points too cheap for having a free mystic shield every turn and one of the best prayers in the game.

Warforger is ridiculous. Just compare him to the Swampcalla shaman. Warforger is cheaper, has AOE STACKING mystic shield, and a spell for mortals on 6s in addition that works on ranged weapons, meanwhile swampcalla hands out mystic shield, but the unit can't be in combat, and neither can the swampcalla, it doesn't stack, even with the offensive buff option, and the warscroll spell is much worse.
I think pontifex might be better than skragrott if you don't take points into consideration at all. Skragrott just has the unique effect of being a bad moon aura, so if you want to reliably have allegiance abilities you basically need to bring him.

 

3 minutes ago, novakai said:

I be more iff about the 5+ ward to be honest

comparing to the lady of vines 5+ ward it has

better range

Is a pray not a spell so your opponent doesn’t get the option to stop it

maybe slightly more reliable to get off (3+ on one dice over 7+ on two dice of course there are ways for sylvaneth to reroll the casting roll) 

only downside is you have to be in your teritory to use it.

but then again this is only one of her three ability and she much cheaper then most named character in this weight class

Pontifex can still chant in your opponents territory. You get to pick 2 of the 3 effects if she's within your opponents territory, but only 1 if she's in your territory

[Doko]

13 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

The average damage of the pontifex (d3 mortals on a 3+) is 1.33

yes but now add that also must get a 2+ and then your 1,3 is 1

[Vasshpit]

😲 You mean a new expensive model coming out may have overly powerful abilities and is undercosted!!!??

🤔 Hmmm. This may help sales. Someone should contact Geedubs and let them know as obviously that's not what was intended. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Vasshpit

[Ejecutor]

3 hours ago, SilentSentinel said:

Between the fairly imminent Ironjawz/gitz releases and what is seemingly shaping up to be a hopefully fairly big upcoming Flesh eaters release at the end of this year or early next year I fear I may die from hype overdoes! Flesh eater courts have always been an army I've loved the concept of but have never bought into due to how small and old some of the range was.

That being said the old/current ghoul kit has grown on me so If it not being updated means we maybe get an extra kit of something new I don't mind it remaining as it is.

Totally feel you here. FEC have one of the best lores imo, but the models weren't making it justice. I am considering them very hard as well.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Ejecutor

[novakai]

4 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

😲 You mean a new expensive model coming out may have overly powerful abilities and is undercosted!!!??

🤔 Hmmm. This may help sales. Someone should contact Geedubs and let them know as obviously that's not what was intended. 

Hey now sometimes we get Slaangors and their extremely bad warsroll from second edition

[Beliman]

6 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

This may help sales.

If GW release a 2d KO wave, I will help sales too!

[Doko]

48 minutes ago, Mutton said:

And if we're going to talk about under costed Cities units...that Alchemist Warforger is at least 50 points too cheap

we also can speak about over costed units that are more than the undercosted by the way.

irondrakes 40 over

gyrocopter 50 over

gyrobomber 30 over

ironbreaker 30 over

runelord 20 over

dwarfking 30 over

dreadspears/bleaksword 20 over

darkshards 30 over

black dragon/gryfon melle 80 over

new kimera 100 over

steelhelms 20 over

new artyllery 30 over

humans gobapaloza 50 over

marshal on foot 20 over

fusilier on ogre 70 over

fusiliers 30 over

 

while the undercosted units are: 

ejecutioners 30 under

hammerers 30 under

metal mage 30 under

sorcerer 30 under

pirates acourges 20 under

 

so the list of undercosted units is way smaller than the overcosted

[Ganigumo]

9 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

😲 You mean a new expensive model coming out may have overly powerful abilities and is undercosted!!!??

🤔 Hmmm. This may help sales. Someone should contact Geedubs and let them know as obviously that's not what was intended. 

Yeah I'm still having nightmares about how broken those kruleboyz were when they came out.

1 minute ago, Doko said:

we also can speak about over costed units that are more than the undercosted by the way.

irondrakes 40 over

gyrocopter 50 over

gyrobomber 30 over

ironbreaker 30 over

runelord 20 over

dwarfking 30 over

dreadspears/bleaksword 20 over

darkshards 30 over

black dragon/gryfon melle 80 over

new kimera 100 over

steelhelms 20 over

new artyllery 30 over

humans gobapaloza 50 over

marshal on foot 20 over

fusilier on ogre 70 over

fusiliers 30 over

 

while the undercosted units are: 

ejecutioners 30 under

hammerers 30 under

metal mage 30 under

sorcerer 30 under

pirates acourges 20 under

 

so the list of undercosted units is way smaller than the overcosted

I hugely disagree with this assessment. Units aren't just pointed for the warscroll, but also for their potential.
Ironbreakers are 130 for 10 wounds with a 3+/4++, sure they only get the 4+ ward half the combat phases, but they're also 40 points cheaper than phoenix guard with a better armor save.
Irondrakes are 10 points cheaper than they used to be, and only lost 1" range, and they saw plenty of play
The dreadlord on dragon can be built to slap, but also has a 14" flying move and access to an ability that makes units attacking it take a mortal wound for every missed attack. There are units that will just immediately die when they attack that thing, and its fast enough to get into those fights.
The human stuff is probably almost entirely undercosted too.
The foot marshal is 90 points for a free command on each of your turns, which seems pretty fair, and you need heroes for the armies' orders. The kruleboyz killaboss is 90 points and he only helps with battleshock on paper thin units. Savage Big boss is 80 points, and does literally nothing but carry a command trait he doesn't need to survive to use. Megaboss on foot is probably a closer comparison, having similar CP efficiency, but is 140 points and slaps harder.
The Command squad is overcosted, but you're bringing it for the battle tactic I think, so its a tax on the BT. Its bad design but it is what it is.
Steelhelms are appropriately costed for 10 1 wound models on a 4+, but have access to a 5+ ward and a ton of save stacking potential.
Fusiliers are fantastic, and you can triple all out attack them, and get +1 to wound, with a mid game reroll ability.

some of the points you're suggesting would be gamebreaking.

Although I do agree that some of the older elf/dwarf stuff doesn't do much, and the warhulk seems pretty bad.

[Vasshpit]

1 minute ago, Ganigumo said:

Yeah I'm still having nightmares about how broken those kruleboyz were when they came out.

They were a non-stormcast starter army. We all know how well that works out until like one or two books later. 😄

[Gitzdee]

17 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

They were a non-stormcast starter army. We all know how well that works out until like one or two books later. 😄

Yeah just give me all the discount Skaven on the 2nd hand market when 4th drops. Ill make sure my wallet is ready .

Edited August 15, 2023 by Gitzdee

[Doko]

48 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Ironbreakers are 130 for 10 wounds with a 3+/4++, sure they only get the 4+ ward half the combat phases, but they're also 40 points cheaper than phoenix guard with a better armor save.
Irondrakes are 10 points cheaper than they used to be, and only lost 1" range, and they saw plenty of play

in specif these units.

yes ironbreaker can have 3/4 but you need pay the heroe tax and isnt something on the scroll,that ward 4 is costed paying for the hero and not paying for the unit.

also it is only for melle and only in enemy turn and also attack last,is imposible compare to a phoenyx guard that dont need hero,work against shooting or magic and also every combat phase, really is imposible compare it,dwarf ward is a 3/10 against all time wards.

oh also when we count the points of a unit,the damage matters also,ironbreakers are useless with 6'6 no rend damage  when phoenyx guard have 8'8 rend 1 damage.

in fact inside of this book we have two tanks units and is easy to see how bad and overcosted are the ironbreakers:

ironbreaker 130 points 10w save3(ward4 only for enemy combat turns and paying the tax of a hero) move4 and 6'6 no rend damage

black guard 140 points 10 w save4 and ward4 in every phase for no extra cost,move 6 and 8'8 rend 1 damage.

so inside same book for only 10 points black guard have 50% more move,50% more damage and with rend,also ward every moment and not only in enemy combat phase.can you tell me that ironbreakers dont need a reduction in cost seeing this?

also even outside of the book,chaos warriors for 200 points have 20 w with save 3 that would be the same than 10 w with ward4.so if we compare ironbreakers to chaos warriors the cost of dwarfs must be 100 and that would be with the ward4 in every phase.......

shieldwall order must be changed to only a ward5 with no restrictions,rigth now is pretty useless

now speaking about irondrakes and because they have been deleted and are overcosted by 40 points. they changed his skill and now you cant use special setups as bridges or deep strike to count as dont move.

oh also lost +1 save vs shooting,also lost the +1 wound from longbeards and the +1 rend of runelords.

so yes a unit that in old book could enter with living city and do full damage now only makes 4'4 rend1 damage for 160 when blisbarbs archers for same cost make 8'8 rend 1

oh and before with the bridge+longbeards+runelord they could have 20 attack 2hit2wound2rend damage1 and teleport and do full damage.

now read  better his scroll and tell me again that irondrakes onky lost 1" range lol

irondrakes have been deleted and they are the worst unit in entire book and need a new scroll with two shoots baseline and delete the stupid rule that cant move

Edited August 15, 2023 by Doko

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, Doko said:

fusiliers 30 over

I'm curious about this. Btw, using the same formula, can you do the numbers for Grundstock Thunderers?