The Rumour Thread

[Flippy]

12 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

Trying to sell people stuff like metal treelords, and resin chaos chosen, when they themselves produce models that are higher quality versions of them, is ridiculous. I know people have a generally low opinion of GW, but suggesting that's what they are going to do is basically accusing them of self-sabotage.

On the contrary. They will take old models and sell them at premium price. "Ridiculous" is a good word to describe the strategy of selling one kit for two games when you can easily sell two. My approach would be to put a separate, glorified TOW shelf in every GW shop with old models only and explain every customer that these are original, elite, old-school, hardcore kits for the true WHFB aficionados.   

[KingKull]

17 minutes ago, Flippy said:

On the contrary. They will take old models and sell them at premium price. "Ridiculous" is a good word to describe the strategy of selling one kit for two games when you can easily sell two. My approach would be to put a separate, glorified TOW shelf in every GW shop with old models only and explain every customer that these are original, elite, old-school, hardcore kits for the true WHFB aficionados.   

No, Ganigumo is right. Just because something is good for the company doesn't have to mean that the consumer won't find it ridiculous, but quite the contrary.

Interests of the company and those of the consumer are often opposed in some crucial aspects - and guess what, we are the latter, not the former.

This isn't directed against you personally, but I'm tired of people making excuses for predatory practices just because it makes more sense for the company. 

By now, most of the people bothering to comment on such things would know about GW's business practices (or be familiar with how corporate businesses in general function), but cynically accepting things just because it makes sense for them gives GW leeway to be more crappy in the future. 

So, yes, releasing and promoting old models when perfectly good ones exist is rubbish and doesn't help the game and its future community, even if it makes GW more money in the short term.

Edited July 21, 2023 by KingKull

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

11 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

Doing if your way is not a great decision either business wise or for gamers. They only have so much production capacity and even if they only start with 4 armies that's a lot of resources. 

Let's not forget, 40k and AoS armies  roughly get 3-4 major releases a year with roughly on avarage 10 new kits. 

Warhammer armies have much bigger rosters than AoS, so there is no way they could release all new models for a number of models at once. 

Releasing old models makes sense as it buys them time, people can get playing and models can get replaced in time. 

I also think you underestimate rhe power of nostalgia, look at how many painters and gamers returned during lock down when they found old models in the attic, the amount of money GW made shows the power of nostalgia. 

I can't claim to have any kind of insight into GWs production process and capabilities. To be sure, releasing 4 armies or whatever at once would be a big commitment. I don't think it would be impossible, though. If I had to guess, the bottleneck is the creation of new plastic molds, because hiring new sculptors does not seem like a serious problem for a big company like GW and putting old kits back into production is as demanding in terms of factory capacity as producing new kits. And it's not like it would have to be all new kits and all plastic, either: Some old kits can certainly be reused (Tomb Kings have a lot of good plastic stuff that people really want to get their hands on) and resin is fine for characters.

As for nostalgia, I think there is a big difference between finding a box of old Bretonnian archers and painting a fun little unit of old models on goblin green bases and buying enough 20 year old models at current GW prices to field a 2000 point army. I say this as someone who regularly paints old and metal models.

19 minutes ago, Snarff said:

Isn't that what this is mostly about though? New players (unless they come via TWW which I haven't seen many people make the jump to actual miniature buying from) already have a great system and setting with AoS.

The Warhammer Fantasy world is still appealing to people who are only now starting to come in contact with it. Games like Total War and Vermintide have proven this. The setting is fun and is not obsoleted by AoS.

The argument has been made many times now, but Fantasy was discontinued for financial reasons. The established players at the time were not spending enough money to justify keeping the system around. Appealing to those exact players now, many of which have either not interacted as customers with Warhammer at all since AoS dropped or already own full WHFB armies or both, is, in my opinion, a questionable choice of target market.

[Malakithe]

Im def not buying older terrible looking models at 2023 prices

[KingBrodd]

21 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Im def not buying older terrible looking models at 2023 prices

This. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

23 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Im def not buying older terrible looking models at 2023 prices

I'll probably pick up some snake riders and a Warsphinx for Tomb Kings. The Tomb Guard kit holds up, too, and has some great bits, even though it suffers from the old scale problems. "The ancient Nehekarans must have been a lot taller than today, given how big their skeletons are!"

However, there is no chance I am paying modern GW prices for the likes of these:
 

Spoiler

[Gitzdee]

1 hour ago, KingKull said:

No, Ganigumo is right. Just because something is good for the company doesn't have to mean that the consumer won't find it ridiculous, but quite the contrary.

Interests of the company and those of the consumer are often opposed in some crucial aspects - and guess what, we are the latter, not the former.

This isn't directed against you personally, but I'm tired of people making excuses for predatory practices just because it makes more sense for the company. 

By now, most of the people bothering to comment on such things would know about GW's business practices (or be familiar with how corporate businesses in general function), but cynically accepting things just because it makes sense for them gives GW leeway to be more crappy in the future. 

So, yes, releasing and promoting old models when perfectly good ones exist is rubbish and doesn't help the game and its future community, even if it makes GW more money in the short term.

I think the difference with TOW is that it is aimed at older players and people who already own armies. Imho its aimed at those still playing whfb or people waiting to jump back to it. I think they might do some made2order for some of the older sculpts/ metals from time to time. It was never aimed at a new audience. They said so from the beginning. I get the feeling some people forgot about this and started hoping for more since its already been years this has been announced.

I always regretted not getting the doomdiver when i had the chance, its such an iconic model. I might be able to buy one again. And that is what i think they are aiming for. Small stock and catering to collectors/ nostalgia seekers. 

[Ejecutor]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Im def not buying older terrible looking models at 2023 prices

I wouldn't call them "terrible", but this, having a mix of plastic, resing and metal, and the fact that Forge tends to do not translate their books are the main reasons I won't give TOW a go.

[Enoby]

18 hours ago, MitGas said:

Would be a stupid move but who knows, there are people at GW that are all for stupid ideas...

++ Mod hat ++ 

I know GW as a whole can make some odd decisions, but this is crossing the line into mean spirited.

[KingKull]

6 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

I think the difference with TOW is that it is aimed at older players and people who already own armies. Imho its aimed at those still playing whfb or people waiting to jump back to it. I think they might do some made2order for some of the older sculpts/ metals from time to time. It was never aimed at a new audience. They said so from the beginning. I get the feeling some people forgot about this and started hoping for more since its already been years this has been announced.

I always regretted not getting the doomdiver when i had the chance, its such an iconic model. I might be able to buy one again. And that is what i think they are aiming for. Small stock and catering to collectors/ nostalgia seekers. 

I know, but the vast majority of older players I've spoken to/chatted online with prefers the newer models where they exist, the treeman being the most often quoted example.

Edit: A better thing to do would be to include the new models in such cases on the official photos and art, and sell square bases separately like they said they'd do.

And since it's aimed at an experienced audience, those people don't need to be led by the hand and have a "compatible with ToW, just buy square baes" sign on each and every box to get the hint.

Edited July 21, 2023 by KingKull

[JackStreicher]

2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I'll probably pick up some snake riders and a Warsphinx for Tomb Kings. The Tomb Guard kit holds up, too, and has some great bits, even though it suffers from the old scale problems. "The ancient Nehekarans must have been a lot taller than today, given how big their skeletons are!"

However, there is no chance I am paying modern GW prices for the likes of these:
 

  Reveal hidden contents

I‘d count those as new Models though

[sandlemad]

To clarify, do we actually know that the old resin/metal 7th ed. treeman is set to return? It was shown in a photo, yes, but given that the current plastic treelord/treeman was an 8th WHFB release… Was it confirmed somewhere in a social media post or something?

[EntMan]

I'm just glad for the confirmation that woodelves stuff from Cities of Sigmar will be reappearing in the old world.

It saved me rushing out and FOMO buying a box of Sisters of the Thorn.

[Nezzhil]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/21/dawnbringer-chronicles-part-v-the-spymasters-deal/

[Clan's Cynic]

Another Dawnbringer Chronicle.

Quote

In the latest thrilling short story from the Mortal Realms, Armand Callis and Hanniver Toll of the Order of Azyr regroup with Zane Delorius, the Hidden Hand of Hammerhal Aqsha. Though ever more problems beset this mighty city, the Conclave still wishes to launch a Dawnbringer Crusade.

They're really doubling down on featuring Callis and Toll these days. Makes me increasingly surprised they've still not had another novel, but maybe that's just not been announced because the suits are paranoid they don't want it showing until all the Cities stuff is revealed. 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

5 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

To clarify, do we actually know that the old resin/metal 7th ed. treeman is set to return? It was shown in a photo, yes, but given that the current plastic treelord/treeman was an 8th WHFB release… Was it confirmed somewhere in a social media post or something?

We don't have definitive confirmation, as far as I know.

I'll leave it at this: It is weird that they are using both the old Treelord and the Skycutter Chariot (which, after all, is as recent as the new Treelord) in their promo pictures. I think the idea that the main factions of ToW might share no models with their AoS counterparts makes sense, but we will have to wait for official confirmation of this. Ironically, it would mean that some of the non-supported armies like Vampire Counts and Lizardmen would have the most up-to-date ranges.

[Ejecutor]

Just now, Clan's Cynic said:

Another Dawnbringer Chronicle.

 

Callis and Toll minis coming!

[Clan's Cynic]

15 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

To clarify, do we actually know that the old resin/metal 7th ed. treeman is set to return? It was shown in a photo, yes, but given that the current plastic treelord/treeman was an 8th WHFB release… Was it confirmed somewhere in a social media post or something?

I wouldn't be shocked if it just amounted to the WarCom intern being told "grab some Fantasy Wood Elf models out of the cabinet for some promo shots" and it just happened to include the old Treemen. 

Considering the existing mode is, as you say, a WHFB model (and not even an End Times one) I don't anyone is going to care if somebody used the newer one anyway.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

31 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Another Dawnbringer Chronicle.

 

What a weird choice of splash art:

Why show the old 2nd ed battletome guy again when we are all awaiting the redesign?

EDIT: On second thought, if the new Freeguild elites actually looked like this, I wouldn't even be mad.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[Asbestress]

21 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

What a weird choice of splash art:

Why show the old 2nd ed battletome guy again when we are all awaiting the redesign.

Sans the weird choice of art (probably didn't want to use unrevealed art more suitable for article decor from the BT), I'm genuinely really enjoying this shudderblight string we are getting in Dawnbringers. Now that I (finally) received book 1 yesterday I'm really interested in how the story evolves over the next (at least) 3 books. And of course how the Callis and Toll minis will look like!

Also, now I really want to convert some Hammerhalian CIA agents whenever the new minis come out. Thinking trench-coat legs + bodies from the Fusiliers with some more elite melee weapons from whatever elite unit we get/pistols from Witch Hunters and some masks (wonder how much 5-10 Quiet Pock heads from Hexbane's would cost 😛) topped with Steelhelm helmets.

Spoiler

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Asbestress

[EntMan]

57 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I think the idea that the main factions of ToW might share no models with their AoS counterparts makes sense

But under current (and confirmed upcoming) conditions this would mean denying e.g. TOW Dwarves Hammerers/Longbeards and Irondrakes/Ironbreakers which doesn't make sense.

Edited July 21, 2023 by EntMan

[Nezzhil]

I'm expecting the books with a thematic like the first one:

Dawnbringers I: Heralds
Dawnbringers II: Conquerors (Big Pig and orruks)
Dawnbringers III: Conspirators (with the Witch Hunters)
Dawnbringers IV: Kings (Ushoran and the Trogg King)

[Freemeta]

1 hour ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Though ever more problems beset this mighty city, the Conclave still wishes to launch a Dawnbringer Crusade.

i don't know why , i thought it was a  cynical population control policy...

[sandlemad]

1 hour ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I wouldn't be shocked if it just amounted to the WarCom intern being told "grab some Fantasy Wood Elf models out of the cabinet for some promo shots" and it just happened to include the old Treemen. 

Considering the existing mode is, as you say, a WHFB model (and not even an End Times one) I don't anyone is going to care if somebody used the newer one anyway.

Yeah, this is very much my feeling. Might be a slightly different story when it comes to e.g. chaos warrior sculpts but I’m hesitant to put big speculation on a random photo in very early WHC marketing material.

RE: the new Callis & Toll story, I like the addition of some political awkwardness around Hammerhal Aqshy launching a crusade. Also how First Marshal Vedra is framed as figure of fear. Given that her own rise was accompanied by purges of the Conclave, sounds about right…

Edited July 21, 2023 by sandlemad

[The Lost Sigmarite]

1 hour ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Another Dawnbringer Chronicle.

They're really doubling down on featuring Callis and Toll these days. Makes me increasingly surprised they've still not had another novel, but maybe that's just not been announced because the suits are paranoid they don't want it showing until all the Cities stuff is revealed. 

Is this short story the sequel to their Hammer & Bolter episode ?