The Rumour Thread

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

9 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

They’re also pretty ‘embedded’ in the background of AoS in a sense. A novella, multiple references to the old Scourge Empire, and they’re linked in with the larger Morathi/Har Kuron Broken Realms plot as the main elven rebels against her rule (where they work particular closely with the human Freeguild rebels).

They were also one of the first playable character achetypes in the Soulbound RPG. Sure, that's a spinoff product, but to my knowledge no units that have later been removed have made it into Soulbound books as player options or antagonists so far. For example, Legions of Nagash didn't appear in Soulbound before they had their Soulblight rebranding. The Freeguild and Dispossessed have also been notably absent so far.

They fit the best of all the Cities elves, in my opinion. I could see them stick around in Cities even if Darkling Covens leave after Malerion gets his own faction.

[Hollow]

23 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

They fit the best of all the Cities elves, in my opinion. I could see them stick around in Cities even if Darkling Covens leave after Malerion gets his own faction.

I'd like for Malerion to get a kit (alongside some new "Sons of Khaine" kits) and for the Darkling Covens, Scourge Privateers, Shadowblades, The Order Serptentis, Black Dragon, Sorceress, Black Guard, Executioners, Dreadspears, Bleakswords, Darkshards, War Hydra, Drakespawn Chariot/Knights, Assassin, Darkriders, Black Ark Fleetmaster, Scourgerunner Chariots and Black Ark Corsairs from the CoS range to be either, moved, removed or updated and snow-balled into a single large BattleTome with Daughters/Sons of Khaine, called something like "Children of Khaine". 

[Draznak]

43 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Maybe wanderers or Phoenix temple could disappear but I doubt both would.

If I remember correctly, Whitefang recently liked a post which said that there was no longer any point in GW leaving wanderers/phoenix Temple while Sylvaneth/Lumineth exists in parallel...

34 minutes ago, Boingrot Bouncer said:

For me what is lacking in the new kits so far is some kind of priest since there seem to be so much religious symbols etc.

Same as above. It's older, but our Great Oracle reacted positively to the fact that there might be something for Order of Azyr and that warrior-priests were oop.

 

We should create a wiki of Whitefang's reactions so that we can find our way around. 😋

 

15 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

To the best of my knowledge, this is the current best guess for Cities warscrolls:

  Reveal hidden contents

1. • Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage
2. • Dreadlord on Black Dragon
3. • Luminark of Hysh with White Battlemage
4. • Sorceress on Black Dragon
5. • Steam Tank with Commander
6. • Assassin
7. • Battlemage
8. • Black Ark Fleetmaster
9. • Cogsmith
10. • Runelord
11. • Sorceress
12. • Warden King
13. • Doralia ven Denst
14. • Galen ven Denst
15. • Haskell Hexbane
16. • Hexbane's Hunters
17. • Bleakswords
18. • Darkshards
19. • Dreadspears
20. • Ironbreakers
21. • Longbeards
22. • Black Ark Corsairs
23. • Black Guard
24. • Dark Riders
25. • Drakespawn Chariots
26. • Drakespawn Knights
27. • Executioners
28. • Gyrobombers
29. • Gyrocopters
30. • Hammerers
31. • Irondrakes
32. • Scourgerunner Chariots
33. • Shadow Warriors
34. • Celestial Hurricanum
35. • Kharibdyss
36. • Luminark of Hysh
37. • Steam Tank
38. • War Hydra
39. Steelhelms
40. Cavaliers
41. Fusiliers
42. Marshall
43. Alchemite
44. Thalia Vedra
45. Warhulk
46. Cannon
47. Elites (Big Axe Render)
48. Flagellant Replacement (expected due to lore reasons)
49. Big Religious Kit (Religious bits render)
50. Unrevealed Unit 1 (e,g Warpriest)
51. Unrevealed Unit 2 (e.g Witch Hunter)
52. Unrevealed Unit 3 (e.g. Outriders)
53. Unrevealed Unit 4 (e.g. Generic Character on Beast Mount)
54. Unrevealed Unit 5 (e.g. New Celestial Mage)

I have almost the same list. I just think that flagellants and general/battlemage on griffon might stay (that would mean 3 less kits for new COS).

 

8 minutes ago, Chikout said:

As for big releases, Gloomspite had 14 kits in one

I suppose you count endless spells/faction terrain in there?
Personally, I prefer to count only minis. Not all armies have had the same treatment on this point (this means "only" 10 kits for gloomspite on early 2019 wave).

[MitGas]

43 minutes ago, Snarff said:

Not if we FINALLY get our minidroths... Ridden by Runedaughters or other female vulkites...

A FS player can dream at least. 🥲

I wish FS got more stuff and I‘m not an orderly guy. Idoneth need a range extension too. Not a fan of armies with little variation, it‘s a buzzkill for everyone, especially their fans!

[Chikout]

13 minutes ago, Draznak said:

 

I suppose you count endless spells/faction terrain in there?
Personally, I prefer to count only minis. Not all armies have had the same treatment on this point (this means "only" 10 kits for gloomspite on early 2019 wave).

If you ignore Underworlds, endless spells and the starter box contents, Nighthaunt got 13 new kits. That's the benchmark. GW themselves said this is one of their biggest ever projects. 

OBR, KO, IDK, etc all got about 10 mini kits. I'm expecting more for cities. Maybe not 15 but 12 plus a warcry warband and a black Library special model would not be a surprise. 

[KingBrodd]

When Malerion is released I hope that it means all the WHGB Dark Elf minis are retired from COS save Corsairs.

[Freemeta]

if they keep old minis, i hope they update their warscroll a lot. keeping unplayable warscroll is very sad, boring and lazy.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

1 hour ago, KingBrodd said:

When Malerion is released I hope that it means all the WHGB Dark Elf minis are retired from COS save Corsairs.

Hey don't forget the Hydra/Kharybdis, the Fleetmaster and (sorta) the scourgerunner chariot ! Even the assassin sorta blends in imo. For the rest... emo elves on dinosaurs don't really sort of blend in with the new freeguild or even dispos. 

Side rant but I really don't like WFB dark elves... I feel like their lore was created by a emo teen from the 90s/00s looking to create a dark and edgy faction, which created goth elves with a love of sacrifice and debauchery... and the models apart from the corsairs and the DoK ones have aged poorly. They're most emo looking with all the skulls and spikes and are very stiff looking. They even have edgy names like bleakswords and darkshards and dreadspears and executioners and black guard... Someone been listening to My Chemical Romance when naming those ? Sorry for dark elves players here...

But anyway, retiring all the non corsair DE units from Cities would mean retiring the dark riders, which means making a new doomfire warlock kit, or at least a replacement DoK cavalry, since they're a double kit.

Edited July 12, 2023 by The Lost Sigmarite

[Snarff]

3 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Hey don't forget the Hydra/Kharybdis, the Fleetmaster and (sorta) the scourgerunner chariot ! Even the assassin sorta blends in imo. For the rest... emo elves on dinosaurs don't really sort of blend in with the new freeguild or even dispos. 

Side rant but I really don't like WFB dark elves... I feel like their lore was created by a emo teen from the 90s/00s looking to create a dark and edgy faction, which created goth elves with a love of sacrifice and debauchery... and the models apart from the corsairs and the DoK ones have aged poorly. They're most emo looking with all the skulls and spikes and are very stiff looking. They even have edgy names like bleakswords and darkshards and dreadspears and executioners and black guard... Someone been listening to My Chemical Romance when naming those ? Sorry for dark elves players here...

But anyway, retiring all the non corsair DE units from Cities would mean retiring the dark riders, which means making a new doomfire warlock kit, or at least a replacement DoK cavalry, since they're a double kit.

The Kharibdys could easily be reworked into an idoneth kit too and made a lot more dynamic in the process.

[pnkdth]

11 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Side rant but I really don't like WFB dark elves... I feel like their lore was created by a emo teen from the 90s/00s looking to create a dark and edgy faction, which created goth elves with a love of sacrifice and debauchery... and the models apart from the corsairs and the DoK ones have aged poorly. They're most emo looking with all the skulls and spikes and are very stiff looking. They even have edgy names like bleakswords and darkshards and dreadspears and executioners and black guard... Someone been listening to My Chemical Romance when naming those ? Sorry for dark elves players here...

They used to be called Dark Elf Warriors with various weapons options. The silly (and new) naming scheme is GW's doing because copyright obsession. Their faction is a result of Slaaneshi corruption by the hands of Morathi and Malekith (plus conflicts with dwarfs). There's also quite a few interesting characters among them as well.

Not liking a faction is A-OK but, seriously, going off a rant where you call people a bunch of cringey emos for liking a particular faction... Yikes.

[Ganigumo]

25 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Hey don't forget the Hydra/Kharybdis, the Fleetmaster and (sorta) the scourgerunner chariot ! Even the assassin sorta blends in imo. For the rest... emo elves on dinosaurs don't really sort of blend in with the new freeguild or even dispos. 

Side rant but I really don't like WFB dark elves... I feel like their lore was created by a emo teen from the 90s/00s looking to create a dark and edgy faction, which created goth elves with a love of sacrifice and debauchery... and the models apart from the corsairs and the DoK ones have aged poorly. They're most emo looking with all the skulls and spikes and are very stiff looking. They even have edgy names like bleakswords and darkshards and dreadspears and executioners and black guard... Someone been listening to My Chemical Romance when naming those ? Sorry for dark elves players here...

But anyway, retiring all the non corsair DE units from Cities would mean retiring the dark riders, which means making a new doomfire warlock kit, or at least a replacement DoK cavalry, since they're a double kit.

WFB dark elves are pretty much copy-pasted melniboneans from michael moorcock's Elric of Menibone, the first story of which was published in 1961, and was a pretty revolutionary take on fantasy at the time. The 8 pointed star of chaos also originates from there.

Of course things have changed over the years and many people have taken inspiration from elric (most notoriously the Witcher, which is nearly beat-for-beat the same story, written by the man who first translated the elric stories into polish...) to the point where the concept starts to feel tired.

[Neverchosen]

27 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Hey don't forget the Hydra/Kharybdis, the Fleetmaster and (sorta) the scourgerunner chariot ! Even the assassin sorta blends in imo. For the rest... emo elves on dinosaurs don't really sort of blend in with the new freeguild or even dispos. 

Side rant but I really don't like WFB dark elves... I feel like their lore was created by a emo teen from the 90s/00s looking to create a dark and edgy faction, which created goth elves with a love of sacrifice and debauchery... and the models apart from the corsairs and the DoK ones have aged poorly. They're most emo looking with all the skulls and spikes and are very stiff looking. They even have edgy names like bleakswords and darkshards and dreadspears and executioners and black guard... Someone been listening to My Chemical Romance when naming those ? Sorry for dark elves players here...

But anyway, retiring all the non corsair DE units from Cities would mean retiring the dark riders, which means making a new doomfire warlock kit, or at least a replacement DoK cavalry, since they're a double kit.

It is funny, I love the edginess of Dark Elves. Michael Moorcock interpreted for goth teens and I am totally excited to see what is done with the God of Edgelords with mommy issues in AOS. Plus if we get the Light of Eltharion, the Spirit of Durthu, the Avatar of Khaine and the Eidolon of Mathlann... is there a chance that we will get the shade of the Darkblade?



I think the thing about Dark Elves is that they are not relatable in anyway. I used to joke with my friends that if I won I'd be happy to have won a game but if my opponent won I was happy that they killed the fascistic slavers.

[RyantheFett]

2 hours ago, Draznak said:

3 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

Maybe wanderers or Phoenix temple could disappear but I doubt both would.

If I remember correctly, Whitefang recently liked a post which said that there was no longer any point in GW leaving wanderers/phoenix Temple while Sylvaneth/Lumineth exists in parallel...

It was my theory post that Cities is a stand in army and all the redundant units will be cut when they have replacements in other factions.

No way to tell if it is true or not until we either get those rumored dark elves or some kind of new dwarfs.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

50 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

It is funny, I love the edginess of Dark Elves. Michael Moorcock interpreted for goth teens and I am totally excited to see what is done with the God of Edgelords with mommy issues in AOS. Plus if we get the Light of Eltharion, the Spirit of Durthu, the Avatar of Khaine and the Eidolon of Mathlann... is there a chance that we will get the shade of the Darkblade?



I think the thing about Dark Elves is that they are not relatable in anyway. I used to joke with my friends that if I won I'd be happy to have won a game but if my opponent won I was happy that they killed the fascistic slavers.

Warhammer for you... take an already existing concept of fantasy/history (in this Moorcock's Melnibonean), crank it up to 11, blend in some other influences (Melniboneans but they're goths !) and add some extra cool extras (like dinosaurs, greek mythology monsters like the hydra and harpies).

And yeah seeing a return of Malus in AoS would be soooo hilarious. After all, Tzarkan is a demon, demons are immortal, he could very well pop up again in the realms.

[mojojojo101]

I'm not sure I can put it into words exactly but I think I'd be pretty dissapointed if Malerion's forces just ended up being AoS Dark Elves. I feel like the nature of Ulgu opens up some really interesting space to do something truly wierd and extremely AoS-ey (for lack of a better term).

What you do with the Dark Elf factions in Cities, keeping them would be the preference, preferably with nicer models, particualrly for Executioners whoare just worse looking models than the metal versions they replaced.

[Neverchosen]

6 minutes ago, mojojojo101 said:

I'm not sure I can put it into words exactly but I think I'd be pretty dissapointed if Malerion's forces just ended up being AoS Dark Elves. I feel like the nature of Ulgu opens up some really interesting space to do something truly wierd and extremely AoS-ey (for lack of a better term).

What you do with the Dark Elf factions in Cities, keeping them would be the preference, preferably with nicer models, particualrly for Executioners whoare just worse looking models than the metal versions they replaced.

I think we are pretty safe on that from what we have seen thus far. Expect winged monsters, strange shadow magic, mirror faces and strange geometry for Ulgu:

[The Lost Sigmarite]

39 minutes ago, mojojojo101 said:

What you do with the Dark Elf factions in Cities, keeping them would be the preference, preferably with nicer models, particualrly for Executioners whoare just worse looking models than the metal versions they replaced.

I liked the direction the lore was getting with them, making Cities elves mostly Ulgu elves that were fleeing from the rule of Malerion/Morathi. Political refugees elves is a bold concept for sure. And that makes for cool future potential models blending Ulguite and Sigmarite influences.

Edited July 12, 2023 by The Lost Sigmarite

[JackStreicher]

11 hours ago, Beliman said:

How about bulls?

Looks like a mix if dragon and bull

Drakbulls, Bulldraks? TM by me

[RyantheFett]

1 hour ago, mojojojo101 said:

I'm not sure I can put it into words exactly but I think I'd be pretty dissapointed if Malerion's forces just ended up being AoS Dark Elves. I feel like the nature of Ulgu opens up some really interesting space to do something truly wierd and extremely AoS-ey (for lack of a better term).

What you do with the Dark Elf factions in Cities, keeping them would be the preference, preferably with nicer models, particualrly for Executioners whoare just worse looking models than the metal versions they replaced.

My pessimistic take would be that in a few years Cities will be the same situation as Tau where the lore is muti race, but on the table it is mostly humans.

On the bright side they have at least one new race shown off (which is already halfway there to passing Tau up on the diversity quota lol). Also GW purging of the older models seems to be very slow process since this wave we have heard rumors of some human models staying in the (steamtank and mage).

Hell we been getting rumors of shadow elves, but who knows how long that could take to come out? Dwarfs and pirates will most likely stay in the faction for years to come.

[Freemeta]

phoenicium is not here anymore btw:

List of city of sigmar

 

[Hollow]

It's so difficult to gauge if things are "slow" in being updated without access to any kind of sales numbers. Obviously, GW still has the molds for all these kits, most of which (if not all) will have paid for themselves many times over. Each kit is just a print run and box, so the sale price is almost entirely profit. So if the kits are moving at a semi-decent rate, I can understand why GW would be hesitant to remove them. After all, why bother if they are turning a tidy profit each month? 

[novakai]

21 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

My pessimistic take would be that in a few years Cities will be the same situation as Tau where the lore is muti race, but on the table it is mostly humans.

On the bright side they have at least one new race shown off (which is already halfway there to passing Tau up on the diversity quota lol). Also GW purging of the older models seems to be very slow process since this wave we have heard rumors of some human models staying in the (steamtank and mage).

Hell we been getting rumors of shadow elves, but who knows how long that could take to come out? Dwarfs and pirates will most likely stay in the faction for years to come.

Tau isn’t really a multi race coalition and that probably where people make that mistake or misconceptions since the main tau are the dominant alien species of the empire and the auxiliary are really just sub servant species to the Ethereal 

it like saying chaos dwarfs are muti race when they just have mercanaries and slaves as part of their force that aren’t there under their own voalition.

Edited July 12, 2023 by novakai

[RyantheFett]

5 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

There's no way all of those things are leaving CoS and they still have 54 warscrolls. Freeguild are clearly getting updated, and I imagine ironweld arsenal are as well. Maybe wanderers or Phoenix temple could disappear but I doubt both would. We're already at like 7 kits revealed? With at least 3 more by my estimation, but probably closer to 5, which takes the release to 10-12 kits, which is a very large release by AoS standards isn't it? cutting out more would need to push it to like 15+ kits

My theory is the six Cursed City models are part of that 54 and that is messing up the count. Small chance I know, but they were mentioned in one of the very first Cities of Sigmar articles.

The rumors we have suggest that both wood elves and high elves get the full purge and by themselves count for 12 units lost. The pics we got of tokens and whatnot support that for now.

Everything else we are not sure if every model is being removed. Ironweld and mages seem to somewhat intact with units like the steamtank rumored to be carried over.

I would like to think that the Demigryph Knights make it as well, but that is most likely a pipe dream lol.

[novakai]

7 minutes ago, Hollow said:

It's so difficult to gauge if things are "slow" in being updated without access to any kind of sales numbers. Obviously, GW still has the molds for all these kits, most of which (if not all) will have paid for themselves many times over. Each kit is just a print run and box, so the sale price is almost entirely profit. So if the kits are moving at a semi-decent rate, I can understand why GW would be hesitant to remove them. After all, why bother if they are turning a tidy profit each month? 

I doubt they are making tidy profit as most old model are webstore exclusive and on their low priority manufacturing list probably. The production is costly on low turning items and these are just made as needed

the stuff that makes most profits are probably the stuff they consistently produce and have retail presence and you can buy them in any store and online retailship not through their limited stock items

[Flippy]

 

3 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

Of course things have changed over the years and many people have taken inspiration from elric (most notoriously the Witcher, which is nearly beat-for-beat the same story, written by the man who first translated the elric stories into polish...) to the point where the concept starts to feel tired.

Cool theory, but the Witcher similarities to Elric are superficial, while the story and core concepts are vastly different. And Sapkowski never translated Moorcock.