The Rumour Thread

[Elmir]

5 minutes ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

So once-per-game Thunderbolt Volley has been nerfhammered, but 15 Blood Stalkers shooting in hero phase every turn has been completely untouched? Is there something I am missing?

DoK is probably too recent a book to be changed in any real way. Recent books seem to evade the update dance for 6 months at least. 

 

[Horizons]

There were tons of strong Stormcast lists that didn't lean on dragons, Thunderbolt Volley change is a bigger hit but I think they'll still be great over all.

Fulminators are still amazing.

Grandhammer Annihilators.

Knight-Judicator spam lists aren't affected.

Chariots are really good and are probably the take over Dragons now.

Hard to say what will be the go to list, espescially with so many core changes through the GHB but Stormcast will fare better than most armies.

I do agree the book has 40+ useless warscrolls though....

[Enoby]

If I'm not mistaken, Khorne now doesn't blow all their Blood Tithe when they spend - so that's a pretty nice quality of life change!

[ArcLight]

Seems like the nerf to Scaly Skin for Seraphon is restricting it to only apply to Saurus, Kroxigor and Monsters. 

[Chikout]

A fair bit of hyperbole flying about. Stormcast will be a solid mid tier book after the changes which is what every book should be aiming for. The nerfing of the auto includes should increase list diversity a lot which is great. I'm very happy to see the Seraphon changes the damage reduction was about to become even better for them.

I'm also very happy to see the app being updated so quickly. It's kind of amazing how much better it is than the 40k version. Overall I think this has been a very good set of changes for most factions.

Hopefully the upcoming Gloomspite book will be help them out as they are really starting to stand out as the most troubled faction. 

Edit- just saw that the Gitz have actually gotten some pretty decent buffs so that's even better. 

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Chikout

[Magnus The Blue]

Gits got some nice little buffs too.  Friendly units count as in range of the moon in 12" of the terrain, 4+ Rally for all moonclan in the light of the moon (which includes squigs)  and +1Sv for Troggoths in the light of the moon.  Great stuff.

Bonesplittas now always get exploding hits on 6s to hit.  I don't think they needed it but nice improvement for Big Stabbas, depleted units and the Rogue Idol.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Magnus The Blue

[Le Chef]

-

Edited June 22, 2022 by Le Chef

[Marcvs]

1 minute ago, Chikout said:

A fair bit of hyperbole flying about. Stormcast will be a solid mid tier book after the changes which is what every book should be aiming for.

While I don't completely disagree on the hyperbole part, I wonder what's your definition of "mid tier book" considering that pre-nerfs Stormcast was hovering around the 50% of win rate in the tSportsNetwork statistics

[Chikout]

Just now, Marcvs said:

While I don't completely disagree on the hyperbole part, I wonder what's your definition of "mid tier book" considering that pre-nerfs Stormcast was hovering around the 50% of win rate in the tSportsNetwork statistics

Stormcast has always been the beginner faction which influences the results quite a bit. I would be surprised if these changes drop them below 45%. If gallet vets turn out to be good, they have ways to take advantage. If they turn out to be bad, they have ways to avoid them. Dragons and longstrikes are still good. They just aren't auto include any more which is a good thing. 

 

 

[PrimeElectrid]

I also like how none of the actually good/high tier books got touched at all.

Seraphon nerf is so slight touch it’s invisible.

DoK still packing double tap shooting and that’s not even their best list.

Fly spam literally hasn’t changed it’s still incredible.

Sentinels and wind spirits are still untouched after 2-3 years.

SCE get 2 good things and they are nuked out of orbit within 12 months. Dragons are the only unit to get nerfed before they are released and eat 4 successive nerfs in a row.

[Plinketts Mawtribes]

And the Ogors aren't even mentioned. ******, that is upsetting. Even the Gitz got some love.

[Chikout]

6 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

I also like how none of the actually good/high tier books got touched at all.

Seraphon nerf is so slight touch it’s invisible.

DoK still packing double tap shooting and that’s not even their best list.

Fly spam literally hasn’t changed it’s still incredible.

Sentinels and wind spirits are still untouched after 2-3 years.

SCE get 2 good things and they are nuked out of orbit within 12 months. Dragons are the only unit to get nerfed before they are released and eat 4 successive nerfs in a row.

Lumineth are the next book to come out and the whole army is only two years old. Wind spirits come out 14 months ago. Given the new battalion, the Seraphon change is actually pretty big. The DoK thing is a little concerning, I'll admit and the nurgle fly spam is a fairly recent development so it's not surprising to see it escape attention this time. 

[The Brotherhood of Necros]

Sorry if I have missed it but where all these changes visible? Did BoC get any updates? (I have the points changes.) 

[Marcvs]

17 minutes ago, Chikout said:

Stormcast has always been the beginner faction which influences the results quite a bit. I would be surprised if these changes drop them below 45%. If gallet vets turn out to be good, they have ways to take advantage. If they turn out to be bad, they have ways to avoid them. Dragons and longstrikes are still good. They just aren't auto include any more which is a good thing. 

 

 

I suppose we'll see about the 45%, I think it might go lower because more successful players wil pivot away from SCE after the nerfs. I also take note that there is a defintion of "mid tier book" but then it has an asterisk for Stormcast (and only for Stormcast) which says "ignore the data, they're a beginner's army" 🤷‍♂️ (whereas, say, Seraphon or Nurgle, both very well represented in the meta, are exclusively composed of seasoned veterans of the tournament scene)

Edited June 22, 2022 by Marcvs

[NauticalSoup]

20 minutes ago, Chikout said:

Stormcast has always been the beginner faction which influences the results quite a bit. I would be surprised if these changes drop them below 45%. If gallet vets turn out to be good, they have ways to take advantage. If they turn out to be bad, they have ways to avoid them. Dragons and longstrikes are still good. They just aren't auto include any more which is a good thing. 

 

 

Dragons are good, longstrikes maybe not. They're extremely expensive and the entire reason for using them was to reinforce them for the double-shot. I dunno that I would ever use a longstrike over other options now.

Edit: 45% is actually a very low win rate in most games that don't have ridiculous balance issues, so if SCE were dropped to that level they wouldn't be what I'd call 'mid-tier'. 

They were mid-tier before, when they were hovering around 50%. And as has been beaten to death there's like a hundred warscrolls in the book but most of them aren't even worth a second look. It's not a book primed to age well into 3.0.

Edit 2: the beginner army thing is nonsense. People make this rubbish claim about Space Marines too, but they're one of the more complex lists you can play in 40k and generally very competitive. Are Bonezplitterz a beginner army because they have no rules and suck at winning? Do we get to label other armies, like Lumineth being the 'that guy' army so they're allowed to be awful to play against? Come on now.

Edited June 22, 2022 by NauticalSoup

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

One thing I have noticed while playing both 40K and AoS during the last decade is that simply nerfing the most competitive units(or in other words, "must-haves") does not necessarily diversify list compositions: the players simply bring fewer "must-haves" due to points increase or performance nerf, but they do not suddenly take uncompetitive units which were overlooked before. 

Just because Stormdrake Guard and Justicar units(particularly longstrikes and judicators) were nerfed does not mean celestar ballistas and stardrakes will suddenly become popular. Nerfing the best options do very little to achieve greater internal diversity. The nerf should be done in tandem with buffs to underperforming units, which unfortunately is what GW has failed to do at least for Stormcasts.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Sagittarii Orientalis

[Clan's Cynic]

A new Ossiarch novel.

 

[KingBrodd]

3 hours ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

GW did it, by the seven heavens GW did it 😍😍😍😍😍

Could I dare to dream, to see duardin ladies whenever any of our factions get a refresh...?!

At this point I would be shocked if they didnt!!

19 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

A new Ossiarch novel.

 

And by Richard Strachan!? Day 1 buy!!

[NauticalSoup]

49 minutes ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

One thing I have noticed while playing both 40K and AoS during the last decade is that simply nerfing the most competitive units(or in other words, "must-haves") does not necessarily diversify list compositions: the players simply bring fewer "must-haves" due to points increase or performance nerf, but they do not suddenly take uncompetitive units which were overlooked before. 

Just because Stormdrake Guard and Justicar units(particularly longstrikes and judicators) were nerfed does not mean celestar ballistas and stardrakes will suddenly become popular. Nerfing the best options do very little to achieve greater internal diversity. The nerf should be done in tandem with buffs to underperforming units, which unfortunately is what GW has failed to do at least for Stormcasts.

This is actually really important- as a longtime 40k player I can't count the number of times I've seen an overperformer being nerfed resulting in an entire army being shelfed. This tends not to happen when the book has good internal balance, but many books unfortunately do not. An iffy book that's propped up by a couple units or specific interactions is at risk of being totally dumpstered if nerfs aren't coupled with points drops in other areas. 

As a competitive player once told me, 'you have to give me somewhere to go or I just have to eat the nerf'.

[sandlemad]

1 hour ago, Clan's Cynic said:

A new Ossiarch novel.

 

Damn this sounds good.

Edited June 22, 2022 by sandlemad

[Jetlife]

These changes all seem good. I’m actually shocked to see so much done in one update. I’m glad they are using the app to update stuff, however, it would be nice to see a rundown article from them….. I’m sure it’s coming. 
 

The fact that Gitz got a few nice buffs is intriguing. I wonder if that’s a sign that their book might not be this fall and could be roped in with S2D time frame which was a rumor a long time ago. In turn, Ogres didn’t get anything which means their Battletome could be right around the corner as one of the fall books. 
 

GW has made rules before and in weeks they have changed them again. They did this for IDK in the battle box to the Battletome. 
 

Khorne change seems slight, but will breathe a little life into them. They actually have some decent tithe abilities. 
 

Scaly skin is a nice change. Find it interesting Kroxigor we’re specifically mentioned…… could new models be coming soon?!?!

 

No game is perfect, and unfortunately it takes time to go through each army and update, but I truly like the direction they have been heading with the frequent updates and changes 

[DinoJon]

I like the Scaly Skin change, it is effective, makes it slightly less oppressive and keeps it thematic. I much prefer playing coalesced from a lore standpoint and glad I still get to do so in a competitive environment. 

If this all points to a Saurus/Kroxigor resculpt coming I will lose my mind. 

[Ogregut]

Love the changes for kruleboyz. 

Making hobgrots battleline for every gutrippaz and grinning blades a permanent bonus gives a big change to the army. 

I won't be using big yellas for a while. 

[Horizons]

1 hour ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

One thing I have noticed while playing both 40K and AoS during the last decade is that simply nerfing the most competitive units(or in other words, "must-haves") does not necessarily diversify list compositions: the players simply bring fewer "must-haves" due to points increase or performance nerf, but they do not suddenly take uncompetitive units which were overlooked before. 

Just because Stormdrake Guard and Justicar units(particularly longstrikes and judicators) were nerfed does not mean celestar ballistas and stardrakes will suddenly become popular. Nerfing the best options do very little to achieve greater internal diversity. The nerf should be done in tandem with buffs to underperforming units, which unfortunately is what GW has failed to do at least for Stormcasts.

I generally agree except for the fact Stormcast has a lot of models that will now be taken instead of the Stormdrakes and Justicars. SCE were very much in a position of lots of A/B tier units outshined by S tier ones.

Judicators (Xbows), Chariots, Fulminators, Annihilators, Liberators, Vanquishers, Vindictors will all be seeing plays now.

You do have a lot of stinkers but I'd be really shocked if SCE  don't top 5 any tournaments.

[Plinketts Mawtribes]

16 minutes ago, Jetlife said:

 

The fact that Gitz got a few nice buffs is intriguing. I wonder if that’s a sign that their book might not be this fall and could be roped in with S2D time frame which was a rumor a long time ago. In turn, Ogres didn’t get anything which means their Battletome could be right around the corner as one of the fall books. 
 

Man, here's hoping.