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Sagittarii Orientalis

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28 Lord Celestant

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  1. I must first confess that I have been exclusively playing Stormcast Eternals since the match play was launched in 2016.I view the missions in the general's handbook rather positively, as many of them seem to emphasise manouevres and board controls to a fair degree.The missions themselves seem to be improving for better gameplay. For example, the change to the movement route of objective in Relocation Orb. There is however, one mission I am struggling to find worth in terms of gameplay - Total Commitment. Now, many of you might instantly point out I am not feeling pleasant with this mission because I play Stormcast, and all that is needed is for me to "get good". However I always expect to play this specific mission, and hence prepare my list and tactic to adapt to it. So far playing Total Commitment and actually winning was far from impossible, at least in my local club where the meta is rather "casual". This however does not stop the mission from leaving sour taste in my mouth, regardless of the outcome. The mission invalidates nearly half the allegiance ability of the Stormcast, which already suffer from general lack of mobility even with the Scions of the Storm. Meanwhile, the mission gives almost no disadvantage to the opposing player unless the game is a mirror match between stormcasts. And stormcasts are not the only faction that is seriously penalised in the mission. Nighthaunt is another faction which allegiance ability imbues army-wide reserve deployment. Thus in my view, Total Commitment heavily punishes very few specific factions without actually providing tactical challenge to the other opposing factions. The fact that most of the large-scale tournaments almost always include Total Commitment in the rulepack exacerbates my frustration, which stems from feeling that my faction is being unfairly penalised. I cannot stop thinking that this mission is devised under the notion that army-wide reserve rule is extremely lethal to the gaming environment, thus requiring an extreme form of limitation via mission rules. If this is true at all, then I believe it is an oversight. Most of the reserve rules have "more-than-9 inches" restrictions, and in many cases units in reserve must be set up on the board by battle round 3. With relatively cheap "screening" units and careful deployment, denying enemy reserves from being set up on ideal position is far from difficult. Crucial charges from big unit of evocators can be denied with a fodder unit of grots, or prevent ballista batteries from shooting 4 shots per model at my important unit. However if army-wide reserve rule is still deemed terrifyingly strong so that a special mission is required to rein it back, I believe forcing reserve units to be set up until the end of battle round 2 would have sufficed. I believe an outright prohibition of core allegiance ability is a limitation too extreme. Imagine a mission where summoning is strictly forbidden, or where units with fly can no longer do so. I see Total Commitment no less harsh and unfair than these examples. Initially, I attempted to send the feedback to the games workshop via AoS facebook. However, I thought it would be better to listen to how other players with different factions view the mission before sending the feedback. Perhaps there might be more to the mission than I am aware of. So if you still believe this is only a tantrum thrown by an immature stormcast player, then please feel free to enlighten me on the value of the mission I might have missed. Thank you.
  2. The best I can do would be hampering enemy movement with gryph-hounds and tree-revenant. The latter can be parked in my backfield to prevent enemy units from set up in my deployment zone for a while. Your remarks on ballistas being forced to cluster remains valid however. Your tournament record is very impressive. Do you mind if I ask the list you took, and whether or not the 2019 Handbook was used? I personally find three ballistas underwhelming for inflicting truly devastating damage, even with support from Lord-Ordinator. Hence the inclusion of fourth ballista in my list. I rarely rely on the Comet as spell with casting value of 6 is far from reliable. This is even more so since stormcasts do not tend to have many casting bonuses. Celestial Warbringers' command ability and Staff of Focus come to my mind. Unfortunately, both options force me to pick rather underwhelming stormhost or entirely forgo stormhost bonus. Come to think of it, if I wanted to take shooting units with reliable yet devastating damage output Anvils raptors might be a better option. But as of now I plan to make quad-ballistas work due to lower points per wound, i.e. better durability.
  3. I would like to ask opinion on using maximum number of ballistas at 2,000 points game. I heard about lists using Astral Templars rules to maximise damage output against monsters, but I chose to run other stormhost since I do not always encounter monsters often. Below is the draft I have written so far. Stormhost: Celestial Vindicators -Leader Lord-Castellant(General, Command Trait: Single-minded Fury) Lord-Ordinator Knight-Heraldor(Artefact: Stormrage Blade) Knight-Incantor(Lore of the Storm: Azyrite Halo) -Battleline 5 Liberators(Grandhammer, Warhammers & Shields) 5 Liberators(Grandhammer, Warhammers & Shields) 5 Liberators(Grandblade, Warblades & Shields) -Artillery Celestar Ballista Celestar Ballista Celestar Ballista Celestar Ballista -Others 10 Evocators(Lore of Invigouration: Speed of Lightning, 5xGrandstave, 5xTempest Blade & Stormstave) 2 Fulminators -Allies 5 Tree-Revenants(Scion, Glade Banner Bearer, Waypipes, Protector Glaive) Total: 2,000 points The idea of the list is to inflict heavy casualties at range with ballistas while liberators, evocators and fulminators stall enemy advance. I chose to run Celestial Vindicators to maximise damage output of close combat elements, so that they can destroy enemy close combat units more effectively. The odd five tree-revenants exist solely to gain more board control, especially when playing Total Commitment mission. As most of you are aware, Total Commitment totally negates Stormcast Eternals' hallmark allegiance ability: Scions of the Storm. In order to hold objectives in enemy territory, or at the least force the opponent to deploy conservatively in order to retain their objectives, I wanted to include at least one unit with "teleportation" ability. For Stormcasts, there are several means of "teleportation" which allows me to remove a friendly unit and set it up anywhere on the board more than 9" away from enemy units. Knight-Vexillor's Hurricane Standard and Stormhost Prayer Translocation are popular options. However I did not have enough points to bring the former, while the latter is too unreliable as it only activates on 3+ with no ways to boost it with re-roll. 5 tree-revenants however are cheap enough to barely include in my list, and they can use "teleportation" ability every turn. Their ability Martial Memories means I can re-roll one of the dice for the charge roll, increasing the chance of making successful charge after teleportation even without support. I have yet to collect tree-revenants and the fourth ballista, although buying these will take less than a month. Meanwhile, I would like to ask suggestions on my list. Thank you.
  4. If the alleged point leaks discussed so far are true, then those are in line with what Jervis Johnson revealed at March issue of White Dwarf: most point changes are in range of +/-10~20 points. I am not too surprised about 20 points increase on Evocators and 10 points increase on Celestar Ballista. In fact, I would consider it more mild than I expected, judging from seething anger against SCE by my friends at local club. Some of them were vehemently demanding straight 40 points increase on the Ballista! Anecdotes aside, these changes bring little to my current lists. Points increases are offset by decreases from other units, for example Lord-Arcanum and vanguard units. One exception is the Stardrake list: I either need to forego one of the heroes in order to keep the Stardrake and supporting units: Ballistas and Evocators. Time will tell, but I need to start tweaking lists more than before. P.S. The aforementioned leaks show Desolators as being 220 points. Does this mean Desolators' points cost has not changed?
  5. Well, I have seen FEC players complaining about SCE shooting so there is that.
  6. I think at least fulminators and tempestors should have 20pts discount at the minimum, considering the heavy nerfs to their breath weapon and tempestors' special rules. I would even go as far as to say that tempestors should cost less than 200pts, since their unique ability has been weakened beyond hope. And desolators too. Their warscroll shows GW's blatant attempt to sell more models. Unfortunately, their points cost is too high and performance is mediocre to justify paying 40 pounds per box. I personally believe they should also cost less than 200pts, provided their warscroll remains unchanged.
  7. The ability to turn a single charge roll, or the d6" range for cometstrike sceptre, and the number of mortal wounds dealt by the comet to your choice is a powerful ability. However, the Celestant-Prime still suffers from his fragility, high points cost and abundance of monsters with ethereal amulet. For quick comparison, gristlegore ghoul king on terrorgheist is only 60pts more expensive than him, and a verminlord is 80pts cheaper than him. If his points cost drops to below 300, he would become more competitive.
  8. Do you think there are instances where Celestial Vindicators Dracoline list has an edge over Anvils of Heldenhammer shooty list? Large unit of dracolines supported by Celestial Vindicators command ability(and Lord Arcanum on Dracoline's command ability in some cases) and ballistas is indeed devastating in my experience. However the gristlegore FEC completely counters such expensive unit, and I doubt I would favour it over Anvils Raptor list in competitive scenes. The diminishing accuracy of ballistas, especially without pricey Lord-Ordinator, against enemy Heroes with Look Out Sir bonus is another reason why I prefer Anvils list over the dracoline list. That being said, heroes mounted on massive war machines and boasting more than 10 wounds benefiting from Look Out Sir always leaves me puzzled. For example, hag queens on Cauldron of Blood and grey seers on the bell. But that is another issue to be discussed.
  9. I wouldn't be so pessimistic, when Anvils of the Heldenhammer list with 6 evocators on dracolines took 5th place amongst 192 players who participated at Cancon this year. The full list can be seen at the following link: https://thehonestwargamer.com/aos-list-rundowns/nathan-princi-stormcast-eternals/ While it is only one example, it does show that a list with many dracolines have potential to perform well in competitive games.
  10. Seeing Anvils Longstrike list doing well at Adepticon is thought provoking. What was the list's final placing? It is a pity that most of the Adepticon 2019 results only show lists' grand alliance and not the specific faction. Thus it is very difficult to figure out how factions under each grand alliance performed. I have used Anvils Longstrike list for a few times, but with Vanguard Justicar Conclave. Below is the list I just wrote this weekend. - Heroes Lord-Aquilor(General, Command Trait: Deathly Aura, Artefact: Ignax's Scales, Mount Trait: Wind Runner) Knight-Heraldor(Artefact: Soulthief) Knight-Incantor(Spell: Lightning Blast) - Battleline 5 Liberators 5 Liberators 5 Vanguard-Hunters - Others 6 Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows 3 Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows 3 Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows 3 Aetherwings 3 Aetherwings 3 Aetherwings 5 Evocators(Spell: Speed of Lightning, Grandstaves) - Warscroll Battalion Vanguard Justicar Conclave - Endless Spell Celestian Vortex Total: 1,950pts The battalion rule is decent, and I found out reducing the number of deployment drops(and thus increasing the likelihood of choosing who goes first or second) is more important for Anvils Longstrike. This is because longstrike raptors only get to shoot at 24" when using Anvils command ability, since it happens before the movement phase. In this case, going second is even more valuable as raptors are more likely to use command ability more efficiently against approaching enemy units. As for the odd unit of vanguard-hunters, I wanted to give it a try since it can be set up closer to the enemy than other stormcast units. They can charge the enemies near the objective more easily, although I have to be careful when selecting targets. Boltstorm Pistols, while not the best ranged weapons in Stormcast arsenals, can put some dents on isolated low-tier units guarding the objective at the rear. Even in Total Commitment mission, they can still perform as bodyguard unit for stalling the enemy advance at just 20 more points than 5 liberators. But perhaps I might be too optimistic. I included the Celestian Vortex because I had spare points, but also because I wanted to inflict damages to enemy units should I get double-turned. Since I have trouble against Chaos lists mostly, the increased damage output of Celestian Vortex against Chaos units is a welcome addition. I know quicksilver swords have exactly the same function at half the price, but I had little choice as I do not have malign sorcery set at the moment. However, I do find lack of bodies worrisome while reviewing my list. Especially more so since I often play against Skullcrushers heavy Khorne list that includes 27 skullcrushers and two bloodthirsters of insensate rage. I expect the liberators and aetherwings to block delay skullcrushers' advance, but you never know until you play multiple times.
  11. Lately I have been testing rosters including Celestant-Prime. Won the first game against Irongut-heavy gutbusters, but I believe luck contributed to victory more than Celestant-Prime did. The opposing player took second turn, and I rolled above average on the first turn shooting. The gutbuster player was not able to play double-turn in critical moment too. My first roster with Celestant-Prime included Hailstorm Battery, but I deemed it a bit too costly for the roster. Celestant-Prime is already too fragile for a model with 340pts cost, and I thought it would be wise to invest more on supporting units than mediocre battalion. Below is the roster which I will be trying soon. I intend to use the roster as "all-comers", although I believe it is lacking for competitive tournament games. Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals - Leaders Celestant-Prime Lord-Castellant(General, Staunch Defender, Lantern of the Tempest) Lord-Ordinator Knight-Heraldor Knight-Incantor(Lightning Blast) - Battleline 5 Liberators(Liberator-Prime: Grandhammer, Warhammers & Shields) 5 Liberators(Liberator-Prime: Grandhammer, Warhammers & Shields) 5 Liberators(Liberator-Prime: Grandblade, Warblades & Shields) - Artillery Celestar Ballista Celestar Ballista - Others 2 Fulminators 10 Evocators(Speed of Lightning, Evocator-Prime: Grandstave, 4xGrandstave, 5xTempest Blade & Stormstave) Total: 1,960pts Leftover Points: 40pts
  12. After playing a few games with the new stormcast battletome, I am trying to use Stardrake list in the next game. The question is, how much supporting heroes should I put? Would it be better to rush with melee units(stardrakes, fulminators) in order to provide target saturation? Or should I invest on counter-artillery/wizard firepower? Only time will tell, but here is what I have thought of so far. Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals Stormhost: None - Hero Lord-Celestant on Stardrake(General, Staunch Defender, Mirrorshield, Celestine Hammer) Lord-Relictor(Translocation) Lord-Relictor(Divine Light) Lord-Castellant(Lantern of the Tempest) Lord-Ordinator Knight-Incantor(Azyrite Halo) - Battleline 5 Liberators(1xLiberator-Prime: Grandhammer, 4xLiberator: Warhammer & Shield) 5 Liberators(1xLiberator-Prime: Grandhammer, 4xLiberator: Warhammer & Shield) 5 Judicators(1xJudicator-Prime: Shockbolt Bow, 4xJudicator: Skybolt Bow) - Artillery Celestar Ballista -Other 3 Castigators(1xCastigator-Prime, 2xCastigator) 5 Evocators(Grandstaves, Celestial Blades, 1xEvocator-Prime, 4xEvocator) - Warscroll Battalion Hailstorm Battery Total: 2,000pts
  13. Below is one of the queries from the new AoS designers' commentaries Page 3 Q: Some abilities allow you to remove a unit from the battlefield and set it up again, and say that this ‘counts as their move for the movement phase’ (or words to that effect). Do these units count as having made a move for the purposes of any other rules or abilities? A: No, it simply restricts them from making a move later on. My question is, do vanguard-raptors set up via Scions of the Storm count as having moved or not. The Scions of the Storm does say that units set up in this way "counts as their move for the movement phase". However, the caveat of the designers' commentaries query is that such abilities should "allow you to remove a unit from the battlefield and set it up again". But Scions of the Storm does not allow the players to do so, since players deploy units using Scions of the Storm rule instead of setting them up on the battlefield. Thus it is technically impossible to remove a unit on the battlefield and then set it up using Scions of the Storm rule. Does this mean units, including vanguard-raptors, set up via Scions of the Storm count as having moved in their movement phase?
  14. It's strange that with all those SCE points leaks from the handbook, points for Evocators on Dracolines are still unknown. Or maybe I haven't gotten hold of it. Photos from last month's warhammer fest seem to suggest that Evocators on Draoclines are available in units of three, but I am not sure.
  15. Which is why I hope Consummate Commander remains as it is now in the new SCE battletome. If it remains unchanged, I think it can become a good alternative for Staunch Defender.
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