The Rumour Thread

[Ragest]

Just now, Jarminiatures said:

There's definitely a space (and I would argue a need) for a Vanari beatstick (on foot or mounted) who isn't a named character. Call them a Vanari Blademaster or something.

Let's call him/her something like Vanari DamageD3Master, Vanari BodyguardMaster or Vanari MWSpamMaster.

That's what Vanaris are all about.

[Snarff]

3 minutes ago, madmac said:

LRL has a good amount of stuff but they aren't way in front by any means.

Relative to the time they've been released, they have a disproportionate amount of of kits.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good thing that a faction actually has an expansive range. It's just that other factions have (almost) smaller rosters than even a single Lumineth temple, which hurts when they're most likely just getting one new hero for this entire edition.

[Ragest]

8 minutes ago, Snarff said:

Relative to the time they've been released, they have a disproportionate amount of of kits.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good thing that a faction actually has an expansive range. It's just that other factions have (almost) smaller rosters than even a single Lumineth temple, which hurts when they're most likely just getting one new hero for this entire edition.

You should be happy that an army is getting so much love, not angry. One more miniature for X faction doesn't mean one less for Y.

[madmac]

3 minutes ago, Snarff said:

Relative to the time they've been released, they have a disproportionate amount of of kits.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good thing that a faction actually has an expansive range. It's just that other factions have (almost) smaller rosters than even a single Lumineth temple, which hurts when they're most likely just getting one new hero for this entire edition.

I understand you feel that way, and man I play Fyreslayers of course I want more armies to get love but this is more a feeling than a factual statement. Nighthaunt, as I already pointed out have more kits than LRL do. Does it actually matter that they got 90% of those brand new kits two years sooner than LRL did? Slaanesh has gotten a massive amount of stuff over the last couple of years, so have Stormcast obviously, so have Soulblight, and Gits, and especially Slaves to Darkness.

People have tunnel vision on this just because LRL had their initial release broken up into two waves less than a year apart. The first wave was actually tiny, if it had ended there LRL would have been one of the smallest armies in the games for kits, directly competing with Fyreslayers and KO for that niche. LRL are not a standout in the world of getting new kits, they're just one of several new armies over the last few years that have gotten good support.

The real difference is that 1st edition new armies (Fyreslayers, KO, DoK, Deepkin, Ironjawz, etc) had much smaller releases compared to new armies from 2E on, and have mostly received very little attention since. I'm extremely happy Sylvaneth finally got a 2nd wave, even though I was personally hoping for Kurnothi, I wish every 1st ed army got the same treatment.

[Doko]

Hnnnn yes,if they spend time,money and the machine to create one new lumineth units then they wont can spend these resources in other army unit......

[Chikout]

49 minutes ago, Doko said:

Morathi:morathi zero changes and is the joke with fly cant die in 3 turns and shooting twice snakes 

I'm pretty sure her command ability is once per game now. 

[EccentricCircle]

3 hours ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

I'm not in this hobby to be competitive (to me, the 'narrative' of a fight beats sheer balance), and I've before here wished for more fluffy rules. Really happy to know m̶y̶ ̶o̶p̶p̶o̶n̶e̶n̶t̶ I'm not the only one who'll be grinning when I'm brutally tabled.

Honestly, I'd not be surprised if "play with your old armies" means that greybeards who already got WHFB armies have rules (read: almost Legends-tier) to play. I genuinely don't think GW will keep molds around, mayhaps do a few limited time waves. Kind of how you can TECHNICALLY play with Chorfs or Tomb Kings in Blood Bowl, but GW themselves doesn't support them at all. At least Chorfs got a BB 1.0 pdf ruleset but afaik that hasn't been updated to the current edition. I don't want to be cynical, as I'm excited for TOW, but I don't think GW worries about any possible aesthetical or size mismatch between AoS and WHFB minis. I find it even highly unlikely that we'll see all the old school armies getting new FW miniatures - surely it'll take years of drip feeding, starting with Empire/one bad guy faction.

I wouldn't be so sure. Its a specialist game rather than a major one, so they won't be allergic to printing rules for models they don't sell. This is true for LotR where you basically have two big compendiums covering every unit in the game. I also do think that some cross compatibility is inevitable, even if the GW accountants would rather that everyone had to buy two of the same model to play the two different games.

I posted this breakdown in the old world thread a month or two back, but I think it all still holds true: There are a lot of AoS factions which in whole or in part replicate classic WFB armies, and it wouldn't take too much work to get the majority of the game back up and running.

Ready to go, just need some heroes appropriate to the era:

• Warriors of Chaos (Mostly still out there as S2D)

• Beasts of Chaos (All still in production as themselves)

• Skaven (All still in production as themselves)

• Lizardmen (All still in production as Seraphon)

• Ogre Kingdoms (All still in production as mawtribes)

• Dark Elves (Almost all still in production as part of CoS)

• The Empire (Almost all still in Cities, but might need an update to match the aesthetic of the earlier era, if Dawnbringers are coming, expect there to be Crossover potential!)

• High Elves (Half the Lumineth range is usable as updated High Elves)

• Vampire Counts (Half the Soulblight range is usable as updated VC)

• Night Goblins (Half the Gloomspite range is usable as updated Night Goblins)

Still have a core of models, but would benefit from more variety

• Wood Elves (Still a few in Cities, and half of Sylvaneth covers the tree spirits, mostly. New Glade Guard, Ariel and Orion, and Tree kin, and you'd basically be there. I could see that and a few other shiny things coming with a "battle for Athel Loren” campaign book, and us being done!)

• Dwarfs (They still have a core of stuff in cities, but are missing enough that they would need a fairly big release to cover the gaps. You can't really use fyreslayers as slayers, we need thunderers, quarellers, regular dwarfs, and of course heroes, if dispossessed are coming, expect there to be crossover potential!)

• Savage Orcs (You could make the case for expanding bonesplitters and making a more solid Savage Orcs army at the same time, but they were always a subfaction anyway, so I don't think its that likely they'd get devoted support)

Can't really use anything currently on sale, so would need a rerelease:

• Tomb Kings (None of the current undead really fit, but you could put the Sphynx, Snake and Tomb Guard kits back into production, and then you'd basically just need skeleton archers and some updated chariots. Since we've not got skelly archers in soulblight there could even be some crossoever potential there if they did a Nu-lamia update paired with an updated Tomb Kings release.)

• Chaos Dwarfs (but there are all those rumours right? I'd expect that if they do come, half the range will match their old loadout while the other half with be realms-y like the elves and vampires.)

• Brettonia (This is the first big one. Like Tomb Kings they have a lot of old kits, but I feel like fewer hold up, and would be likely to be rereleased as is. I think that a Kislev style campaign/expansion where they really update and expand them would be sure to get them brownie points with the diehard fanbase though. I could see it being one of the earlier campaigns. Until then though people can probably muddle through with old models or knights and peasants from other manufacturers. Somewhere a GW accountant would be crying, but the fanbase would be ok.)

• Orcs and Goblins (This is the other really big gap in the line, and in my opinion the most important one. We could get by without Bretonians or even my beloved Tomb Kings until such time as they saw fit to do an expansion centred on them. Classic orcs and goblins though are such a central threat to the old world that I think they would have to do something with them. Again I'm not sure that the old kits hold up too well, and its not long since they were phased out. Unlike the other recently updated armies Kruleboyz just don't replicate the classic army. So they wouldn't be usable as proxies I don't think. We've not heard much about orcs in the previews so far, but if I had to pick a faction to be invading Kislev in the starter set, its they and not chaos whom I would choose.)
  
  So there you have it. All three Chaos factions already have pretty good support, as do High Elves and possibly The Empire, who were always the other most popular hero factions. It would take a few solid releases to get full coverage, but not out of step with the kind of support blood bowl or necromunda gets, averaged over a year or two.

[novakai]

38 minutes ago, Flippy said:

Is there any army (except SCE) that can match the LRL number of AoS kits? Nighthaunts, Gravelords? No salt attached (this time) - this is a serious question.

I think Warclan is close if you count Ironjawz and Kruleboyz as one army. Of course it hard to count all the kits right now since a lot of the Kruleboyz heroes are In starter sets right now

[CommissarRotke]

On 5/12/2022 at 11:04 AM, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

To me, it is still completely unclear how GW plans to launch TOW in a way that is both workable and satisfying.

I'm gonna throw this out into the aether so we can come back to it in 5 years:

GW will release TOW as a minis agnostic(-ish) game

And before you laugh, I personally don't see GW having the production capacity needed for all the stuff they want to make for TOW, let alone expanding AOS like it deserves.  

[novakai]

The thing is that the community is assuming a lot with OW like it’s bringing back fantasy complete but it could be OW is just a new small game on to it self and their plans doesn’t included bring back all 16 armies back into the system officially. Old model can be use in the system but as a side note like Legends. 

at least I feel like specialist game operates independent from the other two mainline game system and rarely do any allowable crossover or share mini with other system (GSC in Necromunda being the few times)

[Twisted Firaun]

23 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

Tomb Kings (None of the current undead really fit, but you could put the Sphynx, Snake and Tomb Guard kits back into production, and then you'd basically just need skeleton archers and some updated chariots. Since we've not got skelly archers in soulblight there could even be some crossoever potential there if they did a Nu-lamia update paired with an updated Tomb Kings release.)

BY LONG LOST NEHEKHARA WHY DID YOU HAVE TO REMIND ME ABOUT THE LOSS OF THE SPHINX?!?! I only got into the hobby back in 206/2017! the range was already discontinued when I joined, but that kit was so awe-inspiring.... and now the only way to find that kit is to fight other fans on eBay where it goes for an average of $200+!!!! Please GW! Please bring back these kits so that the legions may march once more!

[Grimrock]

47 minutes ago, Ragest said:

You should be happy that an army is getting so much love, not angry. One more miniature for X faction doesn't mean one less for Y.

It kinda does though? Like if we were talking about Underworlds getting a new warband then sure, they're separate teams so work done on the warband doesn't take away time from AoS. However there are a limited number of AoS developers, so a limited amount of time they can spend on projects. If the modelling team is assigned to do a new Lumineth wave then they won't have time to work on, for example, the Skaven range refresh or new models for Beastmen or Fireslayers. Then the rules team has to work on the Lumineth models so they can't really focus on other updates and we end up with terrible white dwarf supplements like Khorne. Then the factory gets focused on pumping out enough of the new Lumineth models so they can meet the demand instead of producing models that have been on back order for ages like the Maggoth Lords. 

I know GW isn't just doing this for no reason, they're chasing the money or what they think is good for the game or even what they think looks cool, but they absolutely have limited resources and every decision made has an opportunity cost. They could have left Lumineth alone for 3 years. No one would have complained in the slightest and they could have diverted those resources into factions that desperately need attention, but they chose not to. Now Lumineth players will be upset at having to buy another book, Skaven and Fireslayers players are upset they got ignored, and every other faction that really needs a new book like Khorne are upset that the slot was spent on Lumineth instead. I hope all that customer dissatisfaction is worth it for GW. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Grimrock

[CommissarRotke]

1 minute ago, novakai said:

The thing is that the community is assuming a lot with OW like it’s bringing back fantasy complete but it could be OW is just a new small game on to it self and their plans doesn’t included bring back all 16 armies back into the system officially. Old model can be use in the system but as a side note like Legends. 

 

Yea like I would honestly not be surprised if TOW Kislev was only a few units like Ice Guard from TWW3, and same for Cathay (if it even becomes minis). For as good as Total Warhammer is, it has really set horrible expectations from the fans--for both CA and GW/TOW--and I'm getting sick of it.

[boyadventurer]

Alarielle's scrolls is out in the wild now.
Spear damage gone down 1 per bracket but has a melee attack at the same profile
Brackets better now (first one is 0-6)
Has warmaster, 2 casts/3(?) unbinds
The new units are added to Soul Amphorae
New rampage to turn a terrain piece into overgrown
Ghyran's wrath CA is gone

I think that's it
 

Edit: Also the Talon damage isn't ignored on a 1-5 now too

Edited May 13, 2022 by boyadventurer

[Jaskier]

15 minutes ago, boyadventurer said:

Alarielle's scrolls is out in the wild now.
Spear damage gone down 1 per bracket but has a melee attack at the same profile
Brackets better now (first one is 0-6)
Has warmaster, 2 casts/2 unbinds
The new units are added to Soul Amphorae
New rampage to turn a terrain piece into overgrown
Ghyran's wrath CA is gone

I think that's it
 

Edit: Also the Talon damage isn't ignored on a 1-5 now too

She also gained an attack on her Antlers, so coupled with the Spear having a melee profile, she now has 6 Rend 2 Damage 5 attacks (up from 4.) Talk about a hitter. 

To note, she almost certainly still has 3 casts and unbinds but the potato cam quality makes it look like it's 2/3. 

She also lost knowing all lore spells but it's almost a guarantee they just moved her knowing them all to the actual lore itself ala Nagash, so effectively just codifying that recent FAQ that made it so she could only use/know the entire Sylvaneth lore in a Sylvaneth army. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Jaskier

[Nezzhil]

Where are the Destro leaks?

 

Destro have rights! We are a GA too!

[Jetlife]

9 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

It kinda does though? Like if we were talking about Underworlds getting a new warband then sure, they're separate teams so work done on the warband doesn't take away time from AoS. However there are a limited number of AoS developers, so a limited amount of time they can spend on projects. If the modelling team is assigned to do a new Lumineth wave then they won't have time to work on, for example, the Skaven range refresh or new models for Beastmen or Fireslayers. Then the rules team has to work on the Lumineth models so they can't really focus on other updates and we end up with terrible white dwarf supplements like Khorne. Then the factory gets focused on pumping out enough of the new Lumineth models so they can meet the demand instead of producing models that have been on back order for ages like the Maggoth Lords. 

I know GW isn't just doing this for no reason, they're chasing the money or what they think is good for the game or even what they think looks cool, but they absolutely have limited resources and every decision made has an opportunity cost. They could have absolutely left Lumineth for 3 years. No one would have complained in the slightest and they could have diverted those resources into factions that desperately need attention, but they chose not to. Now Lumineth players will be upset at having to buy another book, Skaven and Fireslayers players are upset they got ignored, and every other faction that really need a new book like Khorne are upset that the slot was spent on Lumineth instead. I hope all that customer dissatisfaction is worth it for GW. 

Unfortunately, they are a bussiness first. I would assume they have a ton of analytics, that shows what sells. I have no clue what that may be, but it would appear they somewhat go off of that. Sylvaneth just got technically the biggest new wave of release amongst first generation armies. Three units….  

[Flippy]

46 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

There are a lot of AoS factions which in whole or in part replicate classic WFB armies, and it wouldn't take too much work to get the majority of the game back up and running.

 

Sure, but why? They already have a fantasy tabletop game: AoS. Would you take the risk of dividing the market and the player base? Of undermining AOS? I can understand that this might be a sweet dream of WHFB fans - but a nightmare of GW CEO, sure as hell.

[Yondaime]

55 minutes ago, Ragest said:

You should be happy that an army is getting so much love, not angry. One more miniature for X faction doesn't mean one less for Y.

“Cries in blades of khorne”

 

>almost 3 year book

>a lot of resin models 

>keeps getting bullied since always with trash rules

>didn’t added in the Hunter list, so no extra vp

>trash, unispired, and close to useless (if not a nerf to the throne) WD update 

 

>mfw someone tells me I should be happy lumineth gets its 3rd ****** release in 2 years 

 

[Flippy]

59 minutes ago, Ragest said:

You should be happy that an army is getting so much love, not angry. One more miniature for X faction doesn't mean one less for Y.

It kinda does, unfortunately.

[BadDice0809]

59 minutes ago, Ragest said:

You should be happy that an army is getting so much love, not angry. One more miniature for X faction doesn't mean one less for Y.

I mean it does. GW doesnt have infinite time or money for molds and casting. Who gets a model release is 100% a zero sum game.

[novakai]

Mold are apparently really expensive from what I heard

like when people say why company X does do why, it literally printing money. Well alway an associate cost behind everything as well as effort by employees.

[Flippy]

1 hour ago, madmac said:

LRL, ignoring terrain, endless spells, and underworlds have 19 kits

Nighthaunt with the same method have I believe 22 kits counting their new stuff, 23 or so with the starter set heroes coming back. Soulblight has 26, if you count Radukars court as one kit.

LRL has a good amount of stuff but they aren't way in front by any means.

Thanks! And all the others who answered.

[yukishiro1]

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what it means.

Now if you were to say that Lumineth not getting as many models wouldn't guarantee that some more needy faction would get more...that's obviously true. I'm not sure any amount of limiting Lumineth releases would have got Fyreslayers more than their token foot hero, because I think GW just doesn't have any ideas left for that faction. If it wasn't Lumineth it might have been one of their other favorites instead.

But it is pretty much the case that one miniature for X means one less mini for some faction other than X. 

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by yukishiro1

[madmac]

20 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

It kinda does though? Like if we were talking about Underworlds getting a new warband then sure, they're separate teams so work done on the warband doesn't take away time from AoS. However there are a limited number of AoS developers, so a limited amount of time they can spend on projects. If the modelling team is assigned to do a new Lumineth wave then they won't have time to work on, for example, the Skaven range refresh or new models for Beastmen or Fireslayers. Then the rules team has to work on the Lumineth models so they can't really focus on other updates and we end up with terrible white dwarf supplements like Khorne. Then the factory gets focused on pumping out enough of the new Lumineth models so they can meet the demand instead of producing models that have been on back order for ages like the Maggoth Lords.

The thing is, the pre-supposes that they're actively ticking off a schedule like, they had a meeting and went "Ok hands up if you think we should work on Skaven or Lumineth next. Looks like LRL have it 5-4, you heard them Bob go sculpt some new elves"

The reality is that all or most of these decisions were set in motion many many years ago and likewise in the case of these 1st edition armies that I personally own too many of, the lack of new miniatures today is because of processes put in motion forever ago.  Simply put, IF LRL get new models this year (which looks unlikely, but whatever) that doesn't mean that GW's sculpting team is just over there cranking out new elf models nonstop only pausing to spit on the fyreslayer molds six times a day. It would just mean that LRL already had models in the pipeline that were made years and years ago, probably right alongside the most recent release and just strategically delayed to maximize sales.

Likewise, the reason we've gotten virtually no second waves for those neglected 1st Ed armies is because at the time they were made GW had no further specific plans to expand them. That's the actual difference between the big multiwave releases we see these days vs those old small armies of yesteryear. The newer armies are made with more models, and planned out as big multiple waves of releases from the start. The old armies were a one and done project when they were made, and we can only speculate if GW has any serious plans in progress for them even now.