The Rumour Thread

[Vasshpit]

25 minutes ago, Luperci said:

I wonder if the swampcalla will pay for his sins during this edition come the new index rules lol

Care to elaborate?

Kruleboyz haven't exactly been tearing up the scene this edition. 

[Lucentia]

27 minutes ago, Luperci said:

 Also I just realised they've been talking about magic but nothing has been mentioned about prayers yet I don't think? 

Presumably either all priests just have warscroll abilities and there's no bespoke prayer system or (more ideally) spells and prayers are now operating under the same broad ruleset and are both classed as 'magic.'  Might get a little messy for factions with both spell and prayer lores, but I'm sure they can figure something out.

In AoS in particular this makes a good deal of thematic sense, I think, where we know that deities are not infinitely powerful, like, what's the material difference between a slaaneshi priest or a slaaneshi wizard if they're both basically drawing from the same source?

[Ragest]

39 minutes ago, Luperci said:

but nothing has been mentioned about prayers yet I don't think?

In the frist article of this week, in the video, they talked about prayers coming in the indexes

Edited March 29 by Ragest

[DoctorPerils]

1 hour ago, OkayestDM said:

This actually makes sense and ties in with the 'Declare and Effect' nature of how abilities work now.

It would be very hard to properly points balance units that loose the thing that they do (magic, in this case) due to a modular rule set being taken out. However, if each wizard model is given a special ability (Boneshaper, Swampcaller, etc) that they always have access to, then magic really can become modular, provided none of the wizard abilities are treated as unique spells. The spell lore is simply tacked on, and only wizard-keyword units can cast them. For balance purposes, they may have to make a Swampcaller choice, where they can either use their ability or cast a spell, but not both. 

How good this modular system actually is will depend a lot on how they've approached warscrolls and abilities for this edition. There's plenty of room for error, but they demonstrated in 3rd that they have the capacity to write goodvrules and keep things fairly well balanced. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until we have more than wild speculation and a defunct edition to go off of. 

Yeah, the balance is the crucial point. If Spearhead does indeed use the normal warscrolls, I'm not sure they'd make two different warscrolls for wizards.

What I could see instead is "magic points" that each player gets (even if playing Khorne), which you can use to launch spells, empower your wizards base [MAGIC] abilities, dispell opponents spells, enact prayers, or convert to Command Points; stuff like that. There could even be play with special objectives or terrain pieces "empower the negation sphere", "tap the power of the spring of life", stuff like that

[Ragest]

If Spearhead uses plain core rules they can't add nothing, because that addition should carry on when putting modules in, in this case magic one, so wizards will have "magic ability" plus spells and or one of those is weak or the model is going to be overpowered.

 

[GloomkingWortwazi]

I just hope the spearhead scrolls aren't radically different. I want to play both 'normal mode' and 'spearhead mode' without massively different versions of the same units.
I'm fine with a simple "don't use abilities of type x" and "add ability y to this unit for spearhead" or "add ability z (magic lite) to this unit for spearhead" - but if they come out of the gate with different stats and things like that, it's gone to frustrate me a lot. I don't want to have to remember that clanrats for AoS are Health 1 and clanrats in spearhead are Health 2 or some other analogue for this.

Edited March 29 by GloomkingWortwazi

[rattila]

9 minutes ago, DoctorPerils said:

Yeah, the balance is the crucial point. If Spearhead does indeed use the normal warscrolls, I'm not sure they'd make two different warscrolls for wizards.

What I could see instead is "magic points" that each player gets (even if playing Khorne), which you can use to launch spells, empower your wizards base [MAGIC] abilities, dispell opponents spells, enact prayers, or convert to Command Points; stuff like that. There could even be play with special objectives or terrain pieces "empower the negation sphere", "tap the power of the spring of life", stuff like that

Sounds a lot like fantasy battle of old, where each sorcerer generates some dice to use (depends on his level), then if you want to launch a spell, you just say how many dices of your pool you use. Same for dispell.

[Gutsu17]

47 minutes ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

Prayers can shove off. They're just tarted-up magic. I can't see why they can't just stop wasting everyone's time and just function as spells. 

I think they should rather just be warscroll abilities e.g. ironjawz warchanter

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

If they roll the prayers together with magic, it's going to make Khorne look like the steaming great hypocrite that he is. I am all in favour of this. 

[BarakUrbaz]

5 minutes ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

If they roll the prayers together with magic, it's going to make Khorne look like the steaming great hypocrite that he is. I am all in favour of this. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sYBx1gH22o

[Flippy]

25 minutes ago, GloomkingWortwazi said:

I just hope the spearhead scrolls aren't radically different. I want to play both 'normal mode' and 'spearhead mode' without massively different versions of the same units.
I'm fine with a simple "don't use abilities of type x" and "add ability y to this unit for spearhead" or "add ability z (magic lite) to this unit for spearhead" - but if they come out of the gate with different stats and things like that, it's gone to frustrate me a lot. I don't want to have to remember that clanrats for AoS are Health 1 and clanrats in spearhead are Health 2 or some other analogue for this.

It's still the best way to somewhat balance the Spearhead without adjusting the core rules or affecting the normal mode of the game. Moreover, it should be enough if GW simply alters some abilities, not the stats themselves. This is the 40k approach from what I see. You simply choose between regular index / codex rules and Combat Patrol rules in the app and use the appropriate datasheets.

[Flippy]

42 minutes ago, DoctorPerils said:

What I could see instead is "magic points" that each player gets (even if playing Khorne), which you can use to launch spells, empower your wizards base [MAGIC] abilities, dispell opponents spells, enact prayers, or convert to Command Points; stuff like that. There could even be play with special objectives or terrain pieces "empower the negation sphere", "tap the power of the spring of life", stuff like that

Additional "resource pool" with new rules attached which can also affect other elements of the game (Command Points) and interact with terrain? Interesting. 100% will not happen.

[DoctorPerils]

37 minutes ago, rattila said:

Sounds a lot like fantasy battle of old, where each sorcerer generates some dice to use (depends on his level), then if you want to launch a spell, you just say how many dices of your pool you use. Same for dispell.

Yeah, my speculation was partially based on what's happened in the past with GW games.

Part of me hopes it doesn't work quite like that, Command Points is quite enough economy to be tracking during a game imo, but since these are different modules (which should be available to be played independently) I'm not sure everything can be based on command points

[PraetorDragoon]

1 hour ago, Lucentia said:

Presumably either all priests just have warscroll abilities and there's no bespoke prayer system or (more ideally) spells and prayers are now operating under the same broad ruleset and are both classed as 'magic.'  Might get a little messy for factions with both spell and prayer lores, but I'm sure they can figure something out.

In AoS in particular this makes a good deal of thematic sense, I think, where we know that deities are not infinitely powerful, like, what's the material difference between a slaaneshi priest or a slaaneshi wizard if they're both basically drawing from the same source?

Conquest has a setup where you have a Priest and Wizard ability, but they work magic in the same way for rule resolution. There are some other rules that key of priests/wizards. (i.e. Devout makes it easier for Priests to buff you, but does nothing for wizards) 

Which could be a nice simplified system.

[Luperci]

1 hour ago, Vasshpit said:

Care to elaborate?

Kruleboyz haven't exactly been tearing up the scene this edition. 

From what I know the power in KB lists rn comes from swampcalla giving extra poison mortal wounds and the sludgeraker giving them to you on a 5+, they don't stack but each list I've seen has one or both at least. And then also gobsprak being gobsprak, it was my understanding they've been doing ok recently, very killy but maybe not as good at scoring I suppose. 

Edit: I suppose they've been doing well in big waagh, not as KB, but that's still KB doing well in my eyes.

Edited March 29 by Luperci

[Grungnisson]

1 hour ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

Prayers can shove off. They're just tarted-up magic. I can't see why they can't just stop wasting everyone's time and just function as spells. 

My answer would be: flavour. It gives certain factions, like Khorne or dwarfs, an access to magic-like mechanics without breaking the lore. 

[woolf]

Will the spearhead boxes even includes wizards? 

Personally think Spearhead will be fairly simple and after just a couple of games ppl will want to move to full rules (unless perhaps kids playing) 

 

I think it sounds like a great way to introduce new ppl and allow gradual learning but would no way hold my breath that ppl who play this game regularly will be blown away by that experience, its simply a gateway to the game but hopefully a good one! eg warcry/uw are too different from AoS to work like that, they can intro to the hobby well enough but not the game, think GW realised that

[Flippy]

11 minutes ago, DoctorPerils said:

Part of me hopes it doesn't work quite like that, Command Points is quite enough economy to be tracking during a game imo, but since these are different modules (which should be available to be played independently) I'm not sure everything can be based on command points

It seems that there is some misunderstanding here regarding this modular build. From what GW says, you may theoretically plug out one "module" (e.g. magic or terrain) but the game is not meant to be played like this. This is how the game should be played and what they design the rules for:

The real idea here is that you can plug out the "magic" module and plug in the "seasonal magic" module instead - and same goes for any other module. Any discussion on how the game will function without "commands" or "command models" is probably irrelevant - the game will simply not function as intended without them, unless you use the proper "replacement module". The "battle tactics" are the only truly optional module.

[woolf]

Just now, Flippy said:

It seems that there is some misunderstanding here regarding this modular build. From what GW says, you may theoretically plug out one "module" (e.g. magic or terrain) but the game is not meant to be played like this. This is how the game should be played and what they design the rules for:

The real idea here is that you can plug out the "magic" module and plug in the "seasonal magic" module instead - and same goes for any other module. Any discussion on how the game will function without "commands" or "command models" is probably irrelevant - the game will simply not function as intended without them, unless you use the proper "replacement module". The "battle tactics" are the only truly optional module.

Yup fully agree

[Gaball Slaaneshi]

During that summer, I think that GW will release a 3th Warcry (not because the game is bad but because of money) at Aqshy. 

As 2th was at Ghur during Era of Beasts. So, what can we imagine about that ? ruins of Phoenicium ? Skavenblight at Great Parch ? I would do everything to explore Skavenblight !

[DoctorPerils]

10 minutes ago, Flippy said:

snip

Or at the very least each module builds on preceding ones (ie module III depends on modules I and II); in which case magic could indeed use the same resources and Command Abilities

But yeah, on the whole I agree GW are probably overselling just how modular AoS4 will be 👍

[Beliman]

13 minutes ago, Gaball Slaaneshi said:

During that summer, I think that GW will release a 3th Warcry (not because the game is bad but because of money) at Aqshy. 

If that means a warband of new Kharadron models, count me in.

[Ejecutor]

23 minutes ago, Gaball Slaaneshi said:

During that summer, I think that GW will release a 3th Warcry (not because the game is bad but because of money) at Aqshy. 

As 2th was at Ghur during Era of Beasts. So, what can we imagine about that ? ruins of Phoenicium ? Skavenblight at Great Parch ? I would do everything to explore Skavenblight !

It could be based also in Ghyran. Both realms would be the main ones.

[Clan's Cynic]

41 minutes ago, Gaball Slaaneshi said:

During that summer, I think that GW will release a 3th Warcry (not because the game is bad but because of money) at Aqshy. 

As 2th was at Ghur during Era of Beasts. So, what can we imagine about that ? ruins of Phoenicium ? Skavenblight at Great Parch ? I would do everything to explore Skavenblight !

Given how massive Blight City is supposed to be, I could definitely see that being where Underworlds and/or Warcry takes place going forward. Even with billions of billions of Skaven, there's probably still space to have people end up stranded there, or venture inside as an extremely dangerous dungeon crawl.

Hell, maybe even there'll be a new WarhammerQuest game set in there? 

Edited March 29 by Clan's Cynic

[Grungnisson]

EDIT

I have, somehow, overmanufactured posts.

Edited March 29 by Grungnisson