The Rumour Thread

[MitGas]

2 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

this is not directly aimed at you but I keep seeing this sentiment around the internet and I have to object.

Sapkowski has been fine with the show's changes, as he was given the scripts and visited the sets to check everything out. I feel like everyone is forgetting this, while they were praising it during season 1.

https://redanianintelligence.com/2021/10/22/the-witcher-producer-clarifies-author-andrzej-sapkowskis-role-in-the-netflix-series/

As Sapkowski has said himself in an interview with Fantastyka magazine before season one: “Creators of adaptations of literary works for other media have the right to be sovereign creators, with an unrestricted right to creative freedom. In the particular case of this adaptation, their ideas can be different than mine. And even when some of their ideas are different than mine, so what? My books are not the Bible.“

The other big thing is you cannot do a 1:1 recreation of book material for video; things will have to change to fit a completely different medium. The same thing will happen with 40k, though I'm sure the 'mechanics' of their lore will not change, there will still be changes because they need to translate a tabletop game with books into cinema.

You're allowed to dislike the changes in a show but like Sapkowski himself says we can't act like source material is a Bible. If Warhammer wants to make the jump to actual cinema, it's going to come with some changes in order to facilitate that.

Look, change all you want (I‘m an agent of change where it‘s feasible) but you always need to make it better if you do. Else it’s just failure and egomania. The Witcher series was mediocre from the start at best (with some decent aspects), I don‘t see how they‘ve improved on it. 

I understand certain required cinematic changes too (in fact I‘ve studied film, so had quite a few classes on script writing - not that this is of consequence here but I believe I’ve got a decent grip on the basics) but ultimately it needs to respect the source and its overall vibe. I think the recent backlash that some meh offerings have gotten is ultimately helpful to this cause - that‘s all I‘m saying. Personally all I want is an offering that doesn‘t reflect badly on the Warhammer universe and hobby. Definitely doable without twisting it need- and aimlessly. 

[Clan's Cynic]

I don't care for the celebrity worship of Cavil.

That is all.

[novakai]

Hey now, it not as bad as the worship that happens with Tom Cruise or The Rock.

Well mostly because he hasn’t acted in any major well acclaimed movies in his career

[Flippy]

2 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

this is not directly aimed at you but I keep seeing this sentiment around the internet and I have to object.

Sapkowski has been fine with the show's changes, as he was given the scripts and visited the sets to check everything out. I feel like everyone is forgetting this, while they were praising it during season 1.

https://redanianintelligence.com/2021/10/22/the-witcher-producer-clarifies-author-andrzej-sapkowskis-role-in-the-netflix-series/

As Sapkowski has said himself in an interview with Fantastyka magazine before season one: “Creators of adaptations of literary works for other media have the right to be sovereign creators, with an unrestricted right to creative freedom. In the particular case of this adaptation, their ideas can be different than mine. And even when some of their ideas are different than mine, so what? My books are not the Bible.“

The other big thing is you cannot do a 1:1 recreation of book material for video; things will have to change to fit a completely different medium. The same thing will happen with 40k, though I'm sure the 'mechanics' of their lore will not change, there will still be changes because they need to translate a tabletop game with books into cinema.

You're allowed to dislike the changes in a show but like Sapkowski himself says we can't act like source material is a Bible. If Warhammer wants to make the jump to actual cinema, it's going to come with some changes in order to facilitate that.

I don’t want to turn this topic into the Witcher discussion, but… I’ve been a keen fan of Sapkowski works since the 90ties. They were - in their time - a formative reading experience for many people and highly praised by non-genre media and critics. The first problem here is (I know how this sounds) that Sapkowski himself never seemed to really understand what made the audience love the Witcher stories; this first became apparent once the Tower of the Swallow was published. Then came the Lady of the Lake which disappointed many fans (still a great book though) and the Hussite Trilogy - an amazing, outstanding work of literature that somehow failed to touch the hearts. The thing is - I’m not sure that he ever cared. Fast forward and he comes back with the Season of Storms, a nice Geralt read, sure , but also a proof that Sapkowski should probably leave the Witcher for good. This becomes 100% sure once he starts critiquing the games - arguably the best thing that happened to his stories and the one that managed to recreate this thing that made the books so beloved.

Which brings us to the second problem - the money. It has never been a secret that the man has a very mercantile approach when it comes to the IP. Netflix pays and gets the praise. An undeserved praise; I don’t believe that this show has any chance for redemption at this point 😞

[Snorri Nelriksson]

6 hours ago, MitGas said:

I can‘t imagine them not getting that right honestly, it‘s such a big part of the universe/lore that pretty much everyone is bad to some extent (and heroic in their own way), it would be a total failure on their part. Not gonna happen. I‘ll at least give them that. 
 

Surely we will get some glorification of Imperials but they‘ll definitely look behind the curtain, it would be a missed opportunity else…

They will do something like every heroic imperial characters in the books "one of the few sane man in the house trying to fight to bring a spark of hope"(Gaunt's ghosts,Gulliman and some other people for example).
They make a great contrast trying to "make you feel" how the galaxy is fudged putting symphatetic characters trying to live on in the worst situation, and every faction is not "good" and has many downsides(hoping to see some xenos at least though).
Still they should nail the gothic asphyxiating feeling of the grimdarkness of the setting with all the bad thing going on.
My biggest worry is about how the'll portray chaotic characters....i would hate if they'll minimixe the big 4 aspects to just some basic things like some saturday morning cartoon villains ,Chaos is the heart of the setting and has many layers that if not epxplored fully could bring some narrative issues imho.

[Nezzhil]

On 12/15/2022 at 7:49 AM, Nezzhil said:

Hello darkness my old friend... 🥲

 

Edit: I think GsG are coming before BoC

 

It was removed from the store.

[Captaniser]

55 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I don't care for the celebrity worship of Cavil.

That is all.

This is probably the thing about the whole situation i dislike the most. That day Henry posted a picture of himself painting warhammer, large parts of the online 40k community changed for the worse. Plenty of clickbait from warhammer youtubers, endless celebrity worship and downright creepy para social relationships were formed with this guy. 

And all of this seems to be going into overdrive now...

[El Syf]

He brings eyes on it though and does seem to at least enjoy some aspects of the hobby.

[novakai]

21 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:

 

It was removed from the store.

Skarsnik could come back when the book launches but then again they could pull a Yarrick and discontinue the model as well, you can never tell with GW.

[EntMan]

3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Sorry to disappoint guys: No chorfs and no silent people, ever.

 

Shadow Aelfes are around the corner though 🤣

Hey! Don't doubt my summoning powers! My constant comments brought back Squats.

[Wraith]

17 minutes ago, El Syf said:

He brings eyes on it though and does seem to at least enjoy some aspects of the hobby.

Yeah, it will go mainstream.

 

The downside is the lore will get sanitized to make it conform to contemporary mainstream values. No more hiding from moral judgement in a fringe culture now! In today's world that means political correctness. But for those who find this objectionable, and even for those who like the idea, I want to point out that every age has it's own mainstream political morality. Thirty years ago, it would have been the Christian right imposing the moral judgements and censoring that which they found objectionable (EG: attempts to band D&D in the 80's, various attempts to band Anime in the last 30 years, etc). Today it is the  ideological zealots from the uni campus who seek to purify MTG and also want to ban Anime they don't like. (Why does Anime always attract the attention of the Puritans?)

There is value in not being mainstream in that small and obscure sub cultures are subject to less  pressure to conform to the political beliefs of a particular day and age. The Bohemian amongst us might need to go looking for somewhere else to hide from  mainstream conformity. The cost is that everyone thinks you are weird.

The up side is the second hand market might see big increases in demand and thus better prices. Mainstream means more money. And everyone knows what you are talking about when you mention our favourite characters. So, I don't know. Maybe the girls will like you as your new found cultural fashionably will make you popular. So money and popularity will be there, if that is what one desires most in life.

 

[CommissarRotke]

1 hour ago, MitGas said:

Look, change all you want (I‘m an agent of change where it‘s feasible) but you always need to make it better if you do. Else it’s just failure and egomania. The Witcher series was mediocre from the start at best (with some decent aspects), I don‘t see how they‘ve improved on it. 

I understand certain required cinematic changes too (in fact I‘ve studied film, so had quite a few classes on script writing - not that this is of consequence here but I believe I’ve got a decent grip on the basics) but ultimately it needs to respect the source and its overall vibe. I think the recent backlash that some meh offerings have gotten is ultimately helpful to this cause - that‘s all I‘m saying. Personally all I want is an offering that doesn‘t reflect badly on the Warhammer universe and hobby. Definitely doable without twisting it need- and aimlessly. 

 

1 hour ago, Flippy said:

The first problem here is (I know how this sounds) that Sapkowski himself never seemed to really understand what made the audience love the Witcher stories; this first became apparent once the Tower of the Swallow was published. Then came the Lady of the Lake which disappointed many fans (still a great book though) and the Hussite Trilogy - an amazing, outstanding work of literature that somehow failed to touch the hearts. The thing is - I’m not sure that he ever cared. Fast forward and he comes back with the Season of Storms, a nice Geralt read, sure , but also a proof that Sapkowski should probably leave the Witcher for good. This becomes 100% sure once he starts critiquing the games - arguably the best thing that happened to his stories and the one that managed to recreate this thing that made the books so beloved.

Which brings us to the second problem - the money. It has never been a secret that the man has a very mercantile approach when it comes to the IP.

I don't want to turn this into Witcher talk either (as intriguing as Flippy's post is) so I'll leave it at this:

The show does not turn The Continent into black and white morality nor does it have an entirely different vibe than the Witcher games (and at least the first novel). Whether the characterizations are majorly different from the books/games or not, their actors still brought amazing performances to the show to bring a cut and dry Dark Fantasy series to life. If Sapkowski's later books disappointed fans + he mainly took the Netflix deal for money, then I'm not entirely convinced fans are actually angry at the show/showrunners, but rather that their ideal of The Witcher can't ever be reached.

[CommissarRotke]

3 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Yeah, it will go mainstream.

 

The downside is the lore will get sanitized to make it conform to contemporary mainstream values. No more hiding from moral judgement in a fringe culture now! In today's world that means political correctness. But for those who find this objectionable, and even for those who like the idea, I want to point out that every age has it's own mainstream political morality. Thirty years ago, it would have been the Christian right imposing the moral judgements and censoring that which they found objectionable (EG: attempts to band D&D in the 80's, various attempts to band Anime in the last 30 years, etc). Today it is the  ideological zealots from the uni campus who seek to purify MTG and also want to ban Anime they don't like. (Why does Anime always attract the attention of the Puritans?)

There is value in not being mainstream in that small and obscure sub cultures are subject to less  pressure to conform to the political beliefs of a particular day and age. The Bohemian amongst us might need to go looking for somewhere else to hide from  mainstream conformity. The cost is that everyone thinks you are weird.

The up side is the second hand market might see big increases in demand and thus better prices. Mainstream means more money. And everyone knows what you are talking about when you mention our favourite characters. So, I don't know. Maybe the girls will like you as your new found cultural fashionably will make you popular. So money and popularity will be there, if that is what one desires most in life.

 

Nope! The lore will get sanitized in order to "Marvelize" 40k and allow GW to mass appeal to corporate sponsors and parents of children, as with most IPs that hit mainstream culture. There are also very much still those same Christian right-wingers trying to impose their moral judgements on wider society. and tbqh 40k would probably become an obvious target for them if it were to hit mainstream From, you know, all of the bastardizations of Christian faith like the Ecclesiarchy right down to the zombie-robot cherubs.

[Sigmarusvult]

 I have just found this on the eBay page of an independent hobby store based in the UK 

I can't tell you how excited I am for a new BoK book ! 👹

[Asbestress]

15 minutes ago, Sigmarusvult said:

 I have just found this on the eBay page of an independent hobby store based in the UK 

I can't tell you how excited I am for a new BoK book ! 👹

Maybe that list a few days has guessed somethings right about BT release order...

[Twisted Firaun]

1 hour ago, Wraith said:

Yeah, it will go mainstream.

 

The downside is the lore will get sanitized to make it conform to contemporary mainstream values. No more hiding from moral judgement in a fringe culture now! In today's world that means political correctness. But for those who find this objectionable, and even for those who like the idea, I want to point out that every age has it's own mainstream political morality. Thirty years ago, it would have been the Christian right imposing the moral judgements and censoring that which they found objectionable (EG: attempts to band D&D in the 80's, various attempts to band Anime in the last 30 years, etc). Today it is the  ideological zealots from the uni campus who seek to purify MTG and also want to ban Anime they don't like. (Why does Anime always attract the attention of the Puritans?)

There is value in not being mainstream in that small and obscure sub cultures are subject to less  pressure to conform to the political beliefs of a particular day and age. The Bohemian amongst us might need to go looking for somewhere else to hide from  mainstream conformity. The cost is that everyone thinks you are weird.

The up side is the second hand market might see big increases in demand and thus better prices. Mainstream means more money. And everyone knows what you are talking about when you mention our favourite characters. So, I don't know. Maybe the girls will like you as your new found cultural fashionably will make you popular. So money and popularity will be there, if that is what one desires most in life.

 

In response to the Anime part, with the Right it’s because it’s foreign and often uses religious iconography in ways they don’t like (guys with crosses, demons, etc), meanwhile the left doesn’t like how most women are drawn in anime. It also depends on the anime in question.

In regards to Warhammer going “mainstream,” and the inevitable change that process will bring upon the hobby: I will remain neutral, as honestly I think my preferred factions will largely be unaffected. Death is death, not many ways to hide that fact, it’s why every culture has some form of death god/spirit. Chaos are the bad guys of the setting, and they’ve been sorta turned down since AOS began. Ultimately, it’ll be up to us, the consumers and hobbyists, to build and paint the models we want the way we want them. 

Finally, it is my firm belief that we are a decently creative group of individuals, what’s to stop us from creating our own game if things get bad (besides real life)? I’ve been trying to write a book based off of Middle Eastern History and Folklore because no one else has really done it besides a few books here and there, and I was tired of waiting for Araby and Tomb Kings to come back. @MitGas is printing his own Chaos Chosen because he thinks the ones from GW don’t fit his aesthetic, @JReynolds made Fabius Bile and the Stormcasts awesome, and I could go on and on.

The point I’m trying to make is this: Warhammer’s biggest rules are the Rule of Cool and to have fun, let’s not turn into Star Wars/Trek, LOTR, or Marvel/DC fans and continue to enjoy the hobby.

[Flippy]

1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said:

I'm not entirely convinced fans are actually angry at the show/showrunners, but rather that their ideal of The Witcher can't ever be reached.

Just to be clear - I don’t want to compare the showrunners and their many sins to the historical creative decisions of the Andrzej Sapkowski. These are very different things. I was just trying to explain why he might endorse the show while hating the games - the reasons may not be apparent for those who do not know the full story.

[Me-dude-sa]

On one hand, I'm glad that hobby will grow and more people will get interested in and have fun with Warhammer and war games as a whole. However, on the other hand, I'm not looking forward to an influx of new toxic fans of Cavill's and the insufferable pockets of the fanbases getting more vocal, abundant and just all around worse.

[Twisted Firaun]

Just now, Me-dude-sa said:

On one hand, I'm glad that hobby will grow and more people will get interested in and have fun with Warhammer and war games as a whole. However, on the other hand, I'm not looking forward to an influx of new toxic fans of Cavill's and the insufferable pockets of the fanbases getting more vocal, abundant and just all around worse.

You just know we’re gonna get a whole lotta flak for Slaanesh alone (and Slaanesh has been toned down quite a bit as it stands). But hey, maybe we’ll get some new Daemonette models out of the deal? And perhaps some Emperor’s Children to go with them. We already got Squats and Sisters of Battle in plastic, so really anything is possible.

[El Syf]

20 minutes ago, Me-dude-sa said:

On one hand, I'm glad that hobby will grow and more people will get interested in and have fun with Warhammer and war games as a whole. However, on the other hand, I'm not looking forward to an influx of new toxic fans of Cavill's and the insufferable pockets of the fanbases getting more vocal, abundant and just all around worse.

Oh, other than this and one other forum I have no contact with the larger community as only play against my brother game wise due to being quite rural. Didn’t know it was that bad!

Edited December 16, 2022 by El Syf

[Me-dude-sa]

26 minutes ago, El Syf said:

Oh, other than this and one other forum I have not contact with the larger community as only play against my brother game wise sue to being quite rural. Didn’t know it was that bad!

The 40k community is especially rough. I'll try not to overshare, but the community where I was near at the time was incredibly bad and made me stop the hobby as a whole for a bit. The casual usage of slurs, constant unpleasant conversations and insults, and just general attitude was really bad and as an LGBT person, it did not make me feel welcome or even safe (and this was even before it all came to a head when someone brought they're unpleasently themed ork army decked out in Swastikas and everything)

Edited December 16, 2022 by Me-dude-sa

[Nezzhil]

2 hours ago, Sigmarusvult said:

 I have just found this on the eBay page of an independent hobby store based in the UK 

I can't tell you how excited I am for a new BoK book ! 👹

[Twisted Firaun]

3 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:

 

So if we take reboxing as a sign of new tomes inbound (which is universally the case), we got Soulblight Gravelords and Blades of Khorne in our future. I wonder if GW has a new hero/unit planned for either of them, or if we just get the Warcry warbands and call it a day? Either way, THE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF LONG LOST NEHEKHARA WILL RIDE AGAINST THE BLOOD GOD!!!

[El Syf]

9 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:

 

As much as this excites me, it’s odd since soulblight was pretty much the prototype 3.0 tome and there are older ones that could do with updating more.

vampire lord on nightmare yes please! 

Edited December 17, 2022 by El Syf

[KingBrodd]

4 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I don't care for the celebrity worship of Cavil.

That is all.