The Rumour Thread

[Enoby]

Just now, Incineroar87 said:

I don't understand how they can make Morathi and Teclis super powerful and cost effective but others are written in the opposite way, the inconsistency and inbalance is concerning because it instantly kills any viability or purpose. 

This is what gets me. I'd be happy if they made a move to tone everything down, but doing it in such a piecemeal way just ends up with people disappointed. I don't think "Bin guy" or "Sin guy" is the better rules philosophy, but they both can't be used.

[Boingrot Bouncer]

As a destruction player I can't see me taking Kragnos in any of my two Gitz-armies at that point cost, if he would have been 500 I could have done it just for a fun addition.

However, since I as Gitz-player have to pay the "Being a crazy army"-tax when it comes to having a chance to win (and I do want to feel lika I have a chance to win at least), I can't see him in a list tat I would take.

But I do save 125 Euro...

[Furuzzolo]

"The Karens Thread"

[Morglum StormBasha]

In what world are the 2 scrolls beasts need redone the beastlord and the jabberslythe! Why not the bullgors and dragon ogres or the cygors - one of the nice plastic kits...

[Boingrot Bouncer]

5 minutes ago, Incineroar87 said:

Looks like bin writer strikes again from what I've seen and heard.

 

I don't understand how they can make Morathi and Teclis super powerful and cost effective but others are written in the opposite way, the inconsistency and inbalance is concerning because it instantly kills any viability or purpose. 

Yeah, that is whats make it feel so strange. If their plan was to make gods rare in gameplay I could see the idea about the points, but now we have two types of gods. Teclis and Morathi is a good start for a competitive list, while Nagash, Allarielle (as it seems) and Kragnos is really hard to motivate in a list.

[GutrotSpume]

37 minutes ago, Chikout said:

I'm not saying rules that are lacking in thought don't exist. I'm saying that what I've seen so far for Kragnos doesn't fall into that category. I'd agree that the vampire lore is poor, but Kroaks death rule is interesting. 

To be honest I wasnt even considering Kroaks Warscroll as I’ve never played lizardmen. 

Edited May 28, 2021 by GutrotSpume

[Feii]

2 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

Hope the points on Alarielle are wrong. The buffs she received make her finally playable. Going to 740 makes her bad again.

Also I think her AoE healing is a bad rule in a meta where your whole units just die. I guess her ability doesnt bring back slain models if you overheal. 
 

 

[Aeryenn]

7 minutes ago, Incineroar87 said:

Looks like bin writer strikes again from what I've seen and heard.

 

I don't understand how they can make Morathi and Teclis super powerful and cost effective but others are written in the opposite way, the inconsistency and inbalance is concerning because it instantly kills any viability or purpose. 

It just makes me sad...

I'm a Sylvaneth player since day one. They gave hope with BR Kragnos article that Alarielle will be fixed... and then they increase her cost by almost Kurnoth Hunter points worth. Othe leak says Warsong Revenant is awful. Why? When will Sylvaneth be playable again? Seriously, I won't be buying any other Battletome or Rules book if it all turns out to be true. Why waste money.

[Scurvydog]

Kroak "fixed" by taking him above 400 pts so he can't ally anywhere. Slightly more expensive but all in all a bit better with +2 cast/unbind baseline, even if his insta death rule is a bit wonky, it is per phase and not turn, so needs a fair amount of pressure to get him off the board like that.

Kragnos is just going to be a never ever pick, 760 points for an 18 wound behemoth with no synergies or allegiance abilities that cries when he gets hurt, wow GW!

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

51 minutes ago, Boingrot Bouncer said:

Since Kragnos has been leaked to be 760, Kroak 430, and Allarielle 740 they seem to have given the gods a quite high point cost, the problem being that Teclis and Morathi is at 660 and 600 which seem low comapred to Nagash, Kragnos and perhaps Allarielle (I haven't seen her war scroll).

That's why I brought up the idea that points might rise across the board in AoS 3. Because that is when Teclis and Morathi would get their increase: When they re-point all the units for the new edition. If that doesn't happen, I guess elves are just better than everyone else

[GutrotSpume]

Well looks like I’ve just saved myself £100 on Kragnos. Awesome Warscroll, silly points. 

[Boingrot Bouncer]

1 minute ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

That's why I brought up the idea that points might rise across the board in AoS 3. Because that is when Teclis and Morathi would get their increase: When they re-point all the units for the new edition. If that doesn't happen, I guess elves are just better than everyone else

The problem with that is that they would have had the chance to do that in BR: Morathi and BR: Teclis, so why didn't they do it then? 

[baiardo]

before judging we must see the whole picture with the new edition fully revealed and the new faction

[Feii]

4 minutes ago, baiardo said:

before judging we must see the whole picture with the new edition fully revealed and the new faction

3.1 will fix it! Oh wait wrong developer 

 

I dont trust companies to fix something or to make something bad amazing in the same development window. It seems like people at GW didnt have enough time so they went with a super conservative and a gunshy route. Shame. 

[Koala]

BoC player here.

So do not tell me about lazy rules.

If someone gave me a choice between LrL/Tzeentch level of complexity or the new Vampires i would take the vampires any time.

I guess it is a personal choice and it seems different battletomes are clearly written with different design philosophies, so we DO have a choice.

But the anger shown by some people here seems to be more about the expectation of "new is always better and has more bonus rules" than the general Design.

( Which is funny as usually it is about new rules being too strong and"GW just wants to sell the new models")

I personally DO like the direction they are taking. 

But even if you do not maybe hold your judgement untill you have played with them... or at least have seen the actual rules

[MothmanDraws]

I mean looking at what was said on /tg/ I dunno how 3.0 will fix the twins to being interesting, a 1 cast caster with 15 spells and infinite range is just going to spam the "turn of hero spell"

both have -1 to get hit, the mage one can cast buffs on all the board
they both can use command ability on all the board
the melee one have 4 attack 2+ 3 + -1 2 damage
and 2 attacck 3+ 3+ -2 2 damage
He fly and can run or retreat and still charge
after the first combat for the rest of the game every turn it gets +1 attacck on all melee weapon
the buff one knows all the spell for the slaanesh spell lore and it can cast them with no range limit
you just need to be visible
he said she knows all spells from all lores but can cast one
and the wizard one can use 1 command ability per turn, with no range limit just los
the melee one just on demon of slaanesh, and demon of slaanesh wholly withn 12 are immune to battleshock

 

They are probably going to fall in line with slikblades of "kind of boring but use them because they are only fairly pointed unit". Expect the voice of slaanesh to be allied alot, just to cast slothful stupor "hero cannot use CA, run or charge this turn" over and over. Though no bonus to cast means its only 50/50 the literal children of slaanesh cant cast that spell.

Only thing that might save them is good command abilities, but it looks like slaanesh's suffering continues

[Feii]

2 minutes ago, Koala said:

BoC player here.

So do not tell me about lazy rules.

If someone gave me a choice between LrL/Tzeentch level of complexity or the new Vampires i would take the vampires any time.

I guess it is a personal choice and it seems different battletomes are clearly written with different design philosophies, so we DO have a choice.

But the anger shown by some people here seems to be more about the expectation of "new is always better and has more bonus rules" than the general Design.

( Which is funny as usually it is about new rules being too strong and"GW just wants to sell the new models")

I personally DO like the direction they are taking. 

But even if you do not maybe hold your judgement untill you have played with them... or at least have seen the actual rules

Its not even about the complexity. Vampires got lazy rules and some feel bad rules which shouldnt be happening. 
 

I dont want to play an army that makes me feel bad while building lists and playing the game. Why would I do that? 
 

I want to spend my money but understand my frustration when armies I love get the short end of the stick in the development. (I already play 2 armies that are bottom 3 in the 40k and SCE casual list so I am not some kind of a power gamer) 

 

I guess Im buying fetchlands and RL cards instead of getting into more armies this year 😩

[Malakithe]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

I'm really not sure what people want from their rules.

Rules that arent terrible, make sense, and just maybe a little thematic. The Soulblight book is just...most of it doesnt even make sense. A lot of it was copy pasta then removed the actual pasta. 

Bin guy looked at his finished Slaanesh book and was like 'I think I can lower the bar even more"

[LeonBox]

5 minutes ago, MothmanDraws said:

the melee one just on demon of slaanesh, and demon of slaanesh wholly withn 12 are immune to battleshock

Haha wow that immunity to battleshock is really gonna come in useful on my bravery 10 daemons, can't wait! 

[Feii]

5 minutes ago, MothmanDraws said:

I mean looking at what was said on /tg/ I dunno how 3.0 will fix the twins to being interesting, a 1 cast caster with 15 spells and infinite range is just going to spam the "turn of hero spell"

both have -1 to get hit, the mage one can cast buffs on all the board
they both can use command ability on all the board
the melee one have 4 attack 2+ 3 + -1 2 damage
and 2 attacck 3+ 3+ -2 2 damage
He fly and can run or retreat and still charge
after the first combat for the rest of the game every turn it gets +1 attacck on all melee weapon
the buff one knows all the spell for the slaanesh spell lore and it can cast them with no range limit
you just need to be visible
he said she knows all spells from all lores but can cast one
and the wizard one can use 1 command ability per turn, with no range limit just los
the melee one just on demon of slaanesh, and demon of slaanesh wholly withn 12 are immune to battleshock

 

They are probably going to fall in line with slikblades of "kind of boring but use them because they are only fairly pointed unit". Expect the voice of slaanesh to be allied alot, just to cast slothful stupor "hero cannot use CA, run or charge this turn" over and over. Though no bonus to cast means its only 50/50 the literal children of slaanesh cant cast that spell.

Only thing that might save them is good command abilities, but it looks like slaanesh's suffering continues

It is really weird that Slaanesh apparently cannot be good at casting spells anymore because of reasons. GW doesnt know what to do with slaanesh rules wise so Im just gonna wait 2-3 years till the next battletome. Shame

 

Dont know why a god that called dibs on the elves is bad at magic. Children of slaanesh are worse casters than gobbapalooza. 

[Enoby]

2 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

Haha wow that immunity to battleshock is really gonna come in useful on my bravery 10 daemons, can't wait! 

Very annoyingly, this would be actually very nice on mortals.

[shinros]

I think what truly sparked off this issue is when the Slaanesh Tome and the DOK tome were released together which clearly highlighted there are clear design issues and the fact there are most likely two writers. It didn't help either that the Lumineth came along and continued this trend. So from there, people looked back on older tomes and even newer rules, people noticed a trend in terms of the writing style and design. This started to cause people to become bitter towards those two armies, especially Lumineth as we all know. 

I mean people can be positive all they want, but I think when design issues are this glaring I think the problems should be voiced. For example, the soulblight tome isn't "bad" but it's pretty obvious in comparison to the Lumineth and DOK tome, a writer in GW is phoning it in. Some warscrolls don't even work, or the rules aren't written properly, Legion of Blood basically lost it's theme of vampires and their very battleline unit is quite poor. It's stuff like that. Fell Bats as warscroll shouldn't exist. I don't know what happened there. 

As someone mentioned, just compare Kragnos to either Teclis or Morathi, issues pop up right away. There's no consistency and I think it's becoming pretty obvious why GW wish to hire a game design lead.  

Edited May 29, 2021 by shinros

[Feii]

5 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Very annoyingly, this would be actually very nice on mortals.

You know a proper battletome would have a subfaction where demons and humans can share their boons. You know like that one flavourfully amazing Syll-Eske faction that is all about symbiosis between mortals and demons hmmmm 

 

 

wasted potential makes me so sad and melancholic. 

[KingBrodd]

I'm so damn excited for today's RE. Hopefully we see a full model revealed or even a proper silhouette of a standard warrior!! 

[Feii]

1 minute ago, shinros said:

I think what truly sparked off this issue is when the Slaanesh Tome and the DOK tome were released together which clearly highlighted there are clear design issues and the fact there are most likely two writers. It didn't help either that the Lumineth came along and continued this trend. So from there, people looked back on older tomes and even newer rules, people noticed a trend in terms of the writing style and design. This started to cause people to be bitter towards those two armies, especially Lumineth as we all know. 

I mean people can be positive all they want, but I think when design issues are this glaring I think the problems should be voiced. For example, the soulblight tome isn't "bad" but it's pretty obvious in comparison to the Lumineth and DOK tome, a writer in GW is phoning it in. Some warscrolls don't even work, or the rules aren't written properly, Legion of Blood basically lost it's theme of vampires and their very battleline unit is quite poor. It's stuff like that. Fell Bats as warscroll shouldn't exist. I don't know what happened there. 

As someone mentioned, just compare Kragnos to either Teclis or Morathi, issues pop up right away. There's no consistency and I think it's becoming pretty obvious why GW wish to hire a game design lead.  

We can never get a better game if there isn’t an underlaying design philosophy. 
 

power level is contextual but if GW writers dont have any kind set of rules while designing battletomes there will be always DoK/Hedonites moment.