AoS 2 - Legion of Grief discussion

[Rangeltoft]

3 hours ago, EMMachine said:

 

It's not forbidden in the rules of the Legion of Grief like in with Legions of Sacrament, Legions of Night or Legion of Blood and he could be General if he wants without including Lady Olynder in the List because he doesn't have the Mortarch Keyword, but you basicly spent 44% of your points in a 2000 Point army in a single model and it doesn't make much sense lorewise.

I know he is an expensive model and i know that it doesnt make much sense from a lore prospective, but that was not what i was asking about was it?

The reason for why i want to include Nagash in a LoGrief army is because the model is a good centerpiece and i came here to see if anyone had a workable list that does include him, hence my question. Not why he doesnt not fit in from a lore prospective or that he is an expensive heap of plastic.

[lare2]

Start with Naggy, umbral spell portal, a necromancer, and 30 grimghast. That'll set you back 1.5k. Sprinkle in 3 min battleline of your choice but I'd recommend rasps or dogs. Top up as you see fit. Take atherquartz on a secure hero. Should be alright. 

[Benlisted]

Had another TTS game with the list I posted on the prior page, this time against Legion of the First Prince. His list was something like: Be'Lakor, Gaunt Summoner, Verminlord corruptor w/ 4-fold blade, Epitome, 2x10 Daemonettes, 30x PBs, 2x6 Bloodcrushers.

Boy was this a grindy game haha. His summoning (of pinks, with 50 wounds why not) and my resurrection kept us constantly throwing more forces in and slowly wearing the other down. We were playing 3 points of power and he got first turn - we played 3 full turns out and did a few key rolls then called it in his favour. Basically, with first turn he was able to get the full 5 pts, whilst with my Harridans frozen by Be'Lakor I was only able to get 4. We then proceeded to keep getting 4 a turn each for the whole rest of the game, beating each other off one objective per turn.

His luck was pretty terrible the first few turns - mine was good on attacks etc but bad on a few key rolls, but the attacks kept me in it for the first two turns. I foolishly failed to fall back 2 surviving bladegheists in my turn which would've let me nab a 5th point and break even with him, but oh well (I think the balance of errors was even overall, we discussed that we had each made a few!) In turn 3 the bad rolls finally caught up with me leaving the Epitome on 1 wound for a few rounds and completely flubbing on the KoSoES and chainraps and failing to take a single wound of a key bloodcrusher to get an objective. And his luck didn't become good per se but more in line with what you'd expect, and that was enough to break my army's back. I was left with dwindling rasps about to be nuked, bladegheists walled out from the big objective by bloodcrushers (with summoned daemonettes serving to up their numbers) and nothing but heroes on the last.

We rolled for initiative for T4 and a few key things (my CP regen and bladegheist charge, a big one might have let them pile onto the objective) but I didn't get high enough, so his lead would've been unassailable. So broadly, feel like I got out-ground! It's interesting, we both agreed that had I ever won a priority roll and gotten the double turn things could well have shifted in my favour hugely. Having not played a lot of AOS I'm not sure how I feel about this.

Anyway, with both my 2 games both having ****** CP regen I have decided to drop the KoS on foot, as if I'm behind I'm spending on resummons and then KoSoES, and won't have enough to pile into him, whilst if I'm ahead it's just win more. So changes to the list are: out with KoS and GoS and the Gravetide, in with Reikenor and Cogs. Never had a good opportunity to cast Gravetide whilst Cogs a) gives me a bonus cast and b) will be helpful with those 9" out of gravesite charges. That and it's just solid anyway for the increased threat range.

[ZLee Syn]

It looks like aetherquartz brooch will be removed. Do you have any ideas how to play grief without it?

[Bayul]

Bring Kurdoss Valentian.

[lare2]

31 minutes ago, Bayul said:

Bring Kurdoss Valentian.

Plus Vassal of Craven King

[Sauriv]

So, if they do not mention LoG in the new GHB20, does that mean that this faction no longer exists? 

[Bayul]

We can't take any allies anyway so this chart is not relevent for us.

Legion of Grief ceases to exists when GW explicitly says it can't be played in Matched Play and removes it from the list builder. They seem to ignore both factions for Forbidden Powers.

[Sauriv]

29 minutes ago, Bayul said:

We can't take any allies anyway so this chart is not relevent for us.

I don't buy this argument because OBR doesn't have allies but they appear on this chart anyway. This is also true for the new elves as well. 

There is no point section (that would just be reprinting the same things again, so thats understandable) but in the ally chart can we see that the other legions Blood/Night/sacrament are still mentioned. 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Sauriv

[Bayul]

22 minutes ago, Sauriv said:

I don't buy this argument

You might like my other argument then.

[ACBelMutie]

If Legion of Grief can't be played because it doesn't appear in the General's, the Great Alligances can't be played then, because they don't appear in the General's.

Legion of Grief and Grand Death Alliance don't appear in the allies table, so can't you play Grand Death Alliance?

Greetings

[Sauriv]

28 minutes ago, ACBelMutie said:

If Legion of Grief can't be played because it doesn't appear in the General's, the Great Alligances can't be played then, because they don't appear in the General's.

Legion of Grief and Grand Death Alliance don't appear in the allies table, so can't you play Grand Death Alliance?

Greetings

Solid point! Thanks

[Tropical Ghost General]

58 minutes ago, ACBelMutie said:

If Legion of Grief can't be played because it doesn't appear in the General's, the Great Alligances can't be played then, because they don't appear in the General's.

Legion of Grief and Grand Death Alliance don't appear in the allies table, so can't you play Grand Death Alliance?

Greetings

Not quite true. This is from the first page of the points book of GHB20. It says if you have no faction rules then use grand alliance. Then the tables at the end each grand alliance points show the various different factions, where grief isn't listed. 

[Joseph Mackay]

On 7/12/2020 at 8:53 AM, ACBelMutie said:

If Legion of Grief can't be played because it doesn't appear in the General's, the Great Alligances can't be played then, because they don't appear in the General's.

Legion of Grief and Grand Death Alliance don't appear in the allies table, so can't you play Grand Death Alliance?

Greetings

Grand Alliance armies can’t/don’t need to take allies which is why they don’t show up in the allies tables.

Forbidden Power being mostly a ‘campaign book’ I suspect that yes Legion of Grief is going away. Almost nothing from any of the previous campaign books is allowed in matched play, and gw seems to not like ‘limited’ things being in matched play (ie if everyone doesn’t have access to it, it doesn’t stay legal very long, like all the dual box battalions from Looncurse etc and I suspect the white dwarf stuff too)

[Sauriv]

And now when aetherquartz brooch  is gone, LoG lost it's gimmick of generate alot of cp. So is it even worth playing even if it's available to play? 

I suspect that LoG will reappear in the release of the next Legions of Nagash book. 

[Liquidsteel]

My local gaming group includes one of the GW playtesters, and has still been discussing LoG in the chat, so I think we're okay.

 

I've got my first game back tonight, vs the hugely buffed Blight Cyst Nurgle, which should be fun.

 

I'm going to run Mannfred and Olynder as I only painted them in March and so never got to try them out on the table. With no Aetherqyartz Broach or Vassal of the Craven King, there'll be no CP farming, so I've tweaked the list ever so slightly.

 

Removed the Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed as there'll be no more spamming +1 attack, which leaves 120 points free.

 

I can either swap for a Spirit Torment or drop 5 Bladegheists as well and put Reikenor in. 

 

I've opted for the Spirit Torment despite the overlap with Mannfred, as with 30 Bladegheists the torment will provide value, and the range on Mannfred degrades.

 

Additionally in the current meta, spellcasting is getting harder, so thinking to not try pushing it.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Mortarchs of Grief.PDF

[Bayul]

32 minutes ago, Sauriv said:

And now when aetherquartz brooch  is gone, LoG lost it's gimmick of generate alot of cp. So is it even worth playing even if it's available to play? 

I suspect that LoG will reappear in the release of the next Legions of Nagash book. 

Every faction lost Aetherquartz Brooch and we still have Vassal of Craven King and Kurdoss Valentian to spam generate CP.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Bayul

[Sauriv]

17 minutes ago, Bayul said:

Every faction lost Aetherquartz Brooch and we still have Vassal of Craven King and Kurdoss Valentian to spam generate CP.

Yes of course, most everyone will have a harder time generating cp but it was powerful to stack the effect of the brooch bumping a 1/3 chance up to ~55.6% chance to get at least one cp back for every cp spent( with a ~11% for 2 cp back) . 

(prob. that both dice fail 4/6*4/6 =0.44... And turn that around to get the prob that at least one succeed. ) 

My games with LoG have been quite cp hungry with extra attacks from KoSoES and +to hit with KoS on foot and when the overall generation goes down, I worry that other components in the army will suffer.

So the question for me is not "do i have more cp than my opponent?" because I probably will, but rather "do i have enough cp to abuse the command ability system enough?" and that I'm not sure of anymore. 

[ACBelMutie]

17 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

Grand Alliance armies can’t/don’t need to take allies which is why they don’t show up in the allies tables.

Forbidden Power being mostly a ‘campaign book’ I suspect that yes Legion of Grief is going away. Almost nothing from any of the previous campaign books is allowed in matched play, and gw seems to not like ‘limited’ things being in matched play (ie if everyone doesn’t have access to it, it doesn’t stay legal very long, like all the dual box battalions from Looncurse etc and I suspect the white dwarf stuff too)

I wanted to reply or include more information but the forum. Was downs last days. 

Swifthawk Agents are a valid faction. They have heroes and units. You can read that Spireguard is battleline in that army which is not listed in the Generals' book, but you can read they mention the army when they list the Spiteguards point costs.

You have to choose the units and after that you choose the alliance. However, we do the opposite because of the APPs which works at the opposite: first alliance and then the faction and subfaction. 

Greetings

Edited July 14, 2020 by ACBelMutie

[lare2]

I am concerned that LoG will end up just narrative. It feels as though GW have just completely forgot it even exists. Hopefully it'll get sorted when they get round to deciding what they're gonna do with LoN.

[Bayul]

3 hours ago, lare2 said:

It feels as though GW have just completely forgot it even exists.

That might be a good thing. This GHB was an oppurtunity to ban LoG from Matched Play.

[ACBelMutie]

1 hour ago, Bayul said:

That might be a good thing. This GHB was an oppurtunity to ban LoG from Matched Play.

No, that's not good. Banning without reasons is not good.

Greetings

[Bayul]

4 hours ago, ACBelMutie said:

No, that's not good. Banning without reasons is not good.

Let me rephrase it for you: This GHB was an opportunity to give GW a reason to ban LoG from Matched Play.

[Greasygeek]

1 hour ago, Bayul said:

Let me rephrase it for you: This GHB was an opportunity to give GW a reason to ban LoG from Matched Play.

Yeah, maybe so but why would they do that? It makes very little sense to me what reasons there are for removing LoG and the WD battalions for NH. 

As a matter of fact the only resin I could see is if a new NH tome is coming out soon and I do not dare to hope so.

[Bayul]

57 minutes ago, Greasygeek said:

Yeah, maybe so but why would they do that? It makes very little sense to me what reasons there are for removing LoG and the WD battalions for NH.

Correct. That's my point. I am sure that we'll play LoG fpr at least for another year in Matched Play, unless a new Battletome absorbs this faction before next year's GHB. Which would be even better. That's why I said it might be a good thing that GW forgot LoG.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Bayul