Will there ever be New Human models for Order?

[kenshin620]

Title says it all. Other than the Warhammer Quest figures (warpriest), there are no new human models for Order. Aelves and Duardin have gotten numerous new representations, but Humans haven't.

Ok obviously there are order "humans", but reincarnated human spirits into Stormcast to me only kind of half count (especially since they are pretty big dudes).

So do you think there would be any (non stormcast) humans in the future? Or given GWs tendency to go "if it aint broke, why fix it" mentality for figures, will former Empire models be the only official order humans till the end of time? 

I guess the big problem is Free Peoples are quite...generic for an army so I'm not sure if they want to bother making new "boring" humans and I can't really see them make a brand new Order faction for humans who in turn would also be..."boring" (plus I think the last thing Order needs is a new army!).

The only idea I have is maybe if they expanded Devoted to Sigmar to have "proper" military troops like templar knights, but those would basically be Greatswords with a different hat or Mini Stormcast wannabes.

[kreggurree]

I'd love to see them try a new direction like they did with the Idoneth, a whole new human range with a strong theme.

[Overread]

I'm very sure there will be, the early AoS novels have several human survivor groups contact very early with arriving Stormcast. AoS is in a very odd position due to its history and its very odd start. It's a game that has a very mature model base that got horribly fractured into a lot of sub-optimal tiny armies - most of which were not functional. It then had a very slow maturity and took a long while to really get its feet under it. Whilst its 3 years old or so I'd say the run up to 2.0 and its 2.0 launch is much closer to its actual birthdate in terms of where we are seeing GW paying proper attention to it and working on it. 

Just like humans are missing there are lots of Aelve bits kicking around and lots of Destruction, Death and Chaos - Skaven are still fractured and only have one Battletome etc.... 

 

Also I would hope that GW slows down on Stormcast releases - right now they've got more model listings than some other Grand Alliances and are already feeling the bite of new things being very similar in role to "old" models that are not really that old at all. I think if GW lets Stormcast take a back seat for a while and has a big year of Battletome releases we can well expect to see human rise up. Peoples crushed under the heel of Chaos who resisted and now, with the brunt of the battle broken against the hammer of the Stormcast, there's ample reason for those human factions to rise up once more and retake lost lands, conquer new ones and drive back the infection of Chaos.

[Freejack02]

2 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Title says it all

Does it? ?

[kenshin620]

1 hour ago, kreggurree said:

I'd love to see them try a new direction like they did with the Idoneth, a whole new human range with a strong theme.

But what would the theme be?

Can't be technology, thats KO

Can't be scouts and rangers, thats Wanderers

Can't be barbarians, thats Darkoath

Can't be knights.....GW just got rid of all of them except for demigyphs (and we also have Order Serpentis and Order Draconis)

Heck Tzeentch kind of has a fantasy version of greek hoplites thing going on.

I'm not even sure if you could look at Realm specific stuff since I'm not sure if it'll really be fitting for a human faction to be realm specific that doesn't step on the toes of other factions (like Fyreslayers or Daughters of Khaine).

 

And I do know there are many human characters in the fluff, but I'm not sure if it would constitute an entire faction versus "alternative Free People" models. So Free People could be a catch all for any Human Order force like Imperial Guard/Astra Militarum....but then that runs into the problem of GW not really wanting to make new models to represent.

Though I would like some fantasy winged hussars again but thats just me.

[Ragnar Alpaca]

I just want all the empire models to be redone honestly. 

[Lightbox]

7 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Though I would like some fantasy winged hussars again but thats just me.

Preach!

[mmimzie]

10 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

an't be knights.....GW just got rid of all of them except for demigyphs (and we also have Order Serpentis and Order Draconis)

The demigrpyh knight could be part of a revamp book with new models. similar to the nighthaunt release.

 

Removal of bretonians and the oke empire knights leaves a great product vacuum that gw can fill with a timely release of new human knight kits.

[Overread]

GW can story justify anything with the Mortal Realms. Your faction is a heraldic group of knights that  searches for the lady in the lack whilst riding atop a massive walking behemoth of a worm with castles, fortifications and a large mounted force that is designed to strike hard and fast at settlements along the way as the worm wanders the land;  being fast enough to return to its lumbering form after a raid.  Yep GW can do that! (actually read Pestliens book and they've DONE much of that already)

 

So there is room and honestly GW have no issue repeating some themes with humans, at present Sigmars forces are the human side to most, but they are giants and not true humans and I'm very sure we will see them. They are just in limbo along with the light and dark aelves; along with corrections and updates to skaven and aelves and orks and goblins. AoS is currently an exercise in patience in terms of it getting itself together. 

[michu]

8 minutes ago, Overread said:

Your faction is a heraldic group of knights that  searches for the lady in the lack whilst riding atop a massive walking behemoth of a worm with castles, fortifications and a large mounted force that is designed to strike hard and fast at settlements along the way as the worm wanders the land;  being fast enough to return to its lumbering form after a raid.  Yep GW can do that! (actually read Pestliens book and they've DONE much of that already)

And remember we already know that knightly orders still exist in AoS (especially in Ghyran). 

[Kevlar1972]

I think the bretons duplicate too much of what GW idealizes the stormcast to be, which is why they got squatted.  Only room for so many knights in shining armor in AoS!

[ledha]

11 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

But what would the theme be?

Can't be technology, thats KO

Can't be scouts and rangers, thats Wanderers

Can't be barbarians, thats Darkoath

Can't be knights.....GW just got rid of all of them except for demigyphs (and we also have Order Serpentis and Order Draconis)

Heck Tzeentch kind of has a fantasy version of greek hoplites thing going on.

I'm not even sure if you could look at Realm specific stuff since I'm not sure if it'll really be fitting for a human faction to be realm specific that doesn't step on the toes of other factions (like Fyreslayers or Daughters of Khaine).

 

And I do know there are many human characters in the fluff, but I'm not sure if it would constitute an entire faction versus "alternative Free People" models. So Free People could be a catch all for any Human Order force like Imperial Guard/Astra Militarum....but then that runs into the problem of GW not really wanting to make new models to represent.

Though I would like some fantasy winged hussars again but thats just me.

AOS minis are news and different from the WFB, but are always referencing a strong theme from WFB.

I can see the new humans being either more peasant/fanatics aspect of the middle age, to contrast to stormcst, or go in the opposite direction, an army of knights or guys in heavy armor mixing both the empire AND the bretonnian imagery, with lot of clothes, feather, and a small part of italian renaissance instead of german empire.

Something like the knights of Kekai Kotaki, with a very ornate and more "slim" and articulate armor than the walking tin-can the stormcast are. Something more "luxuous", and maybe less practical.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

If i was a GW designer, i would take both : basically, make the free people a horde-centered army with lot of flagellant-like or milician units who are weak, but with a extremely customisable noble champion (like the pictures i linked) with minor-hero or even hero-characteristic, who would give different buffs to the unit he lead in battle.

Basically, a handful of nobles from X family/house/city leading their people in battle, but heroically on the frontline, and who could all act like like centerpiece for your army. A little throwback to the bretonnian virtue of empathy who gave to the knight the possibility to fight on foot alongside the poor people and motivate them. You could even customize your noble house/city a bit like the kharadron code to give it more personnality

[Charlo]

I see this going two ways...

1) A Brand new human faction to represent a certain part of humanity in AoS. In terms of fluff i'm thinking more organized than Free Peoples but less so than Stormcast.

2) Beast of Chaos style release that combines Free Peoples, Collegiate Arcane, Ironeld Arsenal (and maybe devout of Sigmar) into a new book with some extra terrain and spells (or similar) model releases to unify it. Free Peoples will be the meat of the book with Wizards and War-machines getting their own bonuses and associated key words.

But what I really want:

3) Collegiate Arcane expanded into a full-blown faction will loads of model support including rookie wizard units, levitating wizard ranged units etc

[JPjr]

Quacked on about this in previous threads recently, so apologies if you've read this before, but if they were to do new human factions for order the two that would separate my cash from my wallet so fast scientists would need to devise a new unit of measuring time would be:

1) Some kind of Ghur based, thinly disguised Black Panther/Wakanda army. If it was handled with a degree of racial sensitivity rarely seen in the RPG world it could be incredible. Amazing cavalry (Rhinos, Zebras or whatever their Mortal Realms has an x on the end equivalent would be), Dora Milaje style royal bodyguards, all kinds of awesome stuff.

Fluff wise when the Age of Chaos began rather than seek refuge in Azyr they retreated to a valley that was protected by powerful illusions, now the Stormcast have signalled Sigmar's return they're making their presence known again.

2) Some kind of Ghyran based Celtic mythology based army. Led by a King Arthur type (but the original Celtic version) who either rides or transforms Morathi-like into a giant Horner bear, a foliage clad Green Man type bruiser, a Morgan la Faye character or some triple aspect Morrigan style forces of destruction, some druids, chariot riding Boudica style warrior women, and as an army centrepiece a giant wickerman, that at first acts as a buff within a certain area but if you can kill enough enemies as a sacrifice comes to life as a giant burning monstrosity.

Fluff wise, they live on a mist shrouded isle in Ghyran. The Morgan La Fay style character could be some kind of seed pod cutting of Alarielle, who was found and protected by a tribe of humans from a Nurgle invasion, so they're strongly allied to the Sylvaneth and have a leaf/tree champion in the Green Man figure.

[michu]

33 minutes ago, Charlo said:

3) Collegiate Arcane expanded into a full-blown faction will loads of model support including rookie wizard units, levitating wizard ranged units etc 

I think they could add unit of magical energy creatures (some kind of elementals) - you would choose the wind of magic they are made of before the game (in similar way the Chaos Gods Keywords work) and they would gain appropriate ability.

[Moonlightwolf]

I'm certain we'll get new order humans in time, I'm hoping they expanded the devoted of sigmar to look like the guys in the recent celestant prime art https://www.artstation.com/artwork/k0wlz a faction of fanatical human warriors with supporting witch hunters and warrior priests who are accompanied into battle by celestial cherubs bearing stormcast relics is exactly where I'd like to see that faction go.

[kenshin620]

4 hours ago, ledha said:

AOS minis are news and different from the WFB, but are always referencing a strong theme from WFB.

I can see the new humans being either more peasant/fanatics aspect of the middle age, to contrast to stormcst, or go in the opposite direction, an army of knights or guys in heavy armor mixing both the empire AND the bretonnian imagery, with lot of clothes, feather, and a small part of italian renaissance instead of german empire.

Something like the knights of Kekai Kotaki, with a very ornate and more "slim" and articulate armor than the walking tin-can the stormcast are. Something more "luxuous", and maybe less practical.

 

Unfortunately I think everyone else is also trying to cash in at late medieval/renaissance fantasy humans too since AoS really hasn't been bothering with it..

No idea when this is even coming out but theres an upcoming game called Conquest Last Argument of Kings

Spoiler

 

1 hour ago, Charlo said:

3) Collegiate Arcane expanded into a full-blown faction will loads of model support including rookie wizard units, levitating wizard ranged units etc

Can they also absorb Eldritch Council? Swordmasters need a home too!

 

1 hour ago, JPjr said:

1) Some kind of Ghur based, thinly disguised Black Panther/Wakanda army. If it was handled with a degree of racial sensitivity rarely seen in the RPG world it could be incredible. Amazing cavalry (Rhinos, Zebras or whatever their Mortal Realms has an x on the end equivalent would be), Dora Milaje style royal bodyguards, all kinds of awesome stuff.

While I love Black Panther, unless someone on GW's design team has a PHD in African history and culture, I can't really see them doing this. Especially since it is something they've never really done before. I'd almost think they might take a crack at an Asian themed one.

1 hour ago, JPjr said:

2) Some kind of Ghyran based Celtic mythology based army. Led by a King Arthur type (but the original Celtic version) who either rides or transforms Morathi-like into a giant Horner bear, a foliage clad Green Man type bruiser, a Morgan la Faye character or some triple aspect Morrigan style forces of destruction, some druids, chariot riding Boudica style warrior women, and as an army centrepiece a giant wickerman, that at first acts as a buff within a certain area but if you can kill enough enemies as a sacrifice comes to life as a giant burning monstrosity.

Albion 2.0 sounds interesting as well, but I think half the army may run into the "how to put the GW IP stamp" problem. Empire and Bretonnia, even in the heydays, suffered from this as other companies started to (either intentionally or accidentally) make plastic historical equivalences. Lets be real here, something tells me Fireforge was banking on the Bretonnian fanbase when they first launched since they started with the very Fantasy looking Teutonic Knights.

Now I guess GW can solve this by giving everyone wicked hair, though thats the fyrslayers job today!

Spoiler

 

 

In essence I think New Order Humans have 3 hurdles to overcome.

1. How to be unique to not step on any other factions toes (especially since we still have all these rumored factions like even more aelves)

2.  How to be GW unique so that people who don't rely on GW official stores/tourneys don't either buy Historical equivalences or similar Fantasy equivalences

3. How to justify an entire new range (again) when GW seems very content with selling plastic lines from 6th and 7th edition.

 

[Overread]

Honestly with the way GW do mounted units right now its crying out for a knights faction because, in plastic, GW could do some OUTSTANDING knights in full charging poses. Not your "standing still horse with a table cloth over it" but your full "wild brazen charging warhorse with fabric flapping in the air; mail clanking and rider low to charge.

Of course they can also throw in mythical mounts as well; a charging group of horses backed up with a lionhorse or something! 

 

Thing is its all about inspiration, creativity and desire. GW can do a knights faction, there is no reason they can't that is sound. They can make it distinct, unique, appear fantastic and balance it for the tabletop no issues. The only issue is if management and designers they've got WANT to make it. 

[Warboss Gorbolg]

I feel like the recent novels suggest that GW isn't going to abandon the old aesthetics completely or anytime soon. Has really been a "return to the old world" feel recently with some minor new twists regarding Ironweld, Free Peoples, Devoted, etc. across multiple novels. Why feature these factions if the plan is to move away from them?

My current preference would be for GW to eliminate all of the horses (they feel really out of place at this point in the setting), expand on the griffon theme, add 1 or so dual-kits to each of the existing human factions, and then double down on the Firestorm approach where different cities, regions or even realms have different mixes of factions.

[kenshin620]

43 minutes ago, Warboss Gorbolg said:

expand on the griffon theme,

But once again theres the toe stepping thing since Stormcast seem to love having all these fancy griffon themed mounts, and even miniature griffons.

[novakai]

Well if not gryphon how about a knightly order riding mechanical Robo horses like that old human engineer model di

I think the best way would be to play on their mechanical technology aspect but not make it as  prestine as the KO.  A more focus on gunpowder and CoG technology instead of  steampunk and airships

[Warboss Gorbolg]

1 hour ago, kenshin620 said:

But once again theres the toe stepping thing since Stormcast seem to love having all these fancy griffon themed mounts, and even miniature griffons.

I don't see that as a issue. In fact, I could see it as a purposeful linkage between the two. The only thing that bothers me is the difference in style of the pallador mounts versus demigryphs.