AoS 2 - Dispossessed Discussion

[Beliman]

14 minutes ago, Verminlord said:

If we wanted multirace armies we already had GA order and firestorm rules. 

That book seems to be Firestorm 2.0. So you will still have the same, but a bit more updated.

[Kramer]

12 minutes ago, Verminlord said:

I'm sorry but you can't pretend like this wasn't a compromise to have a book to point to for all these factions that they didn't feel like working on.

If we wanted multirace armies we already had GA order and firestorm rules. 

No no read the whole conversation. Nowhere did I say it wasn’t. I’m only reacting to wild, and frankly untrue claims. That’s why I chose deliberately what I quoted. The parts I didn’t quote I either agree with or is opinion and everybody’s entitled to their own  

but regarding that. Yes of course it’s an easy fix. See my earlier post. I fully agree it’s a bandaid solution and I hope that dispossessed are the first that get the nighthaunt treatment (and in the same timespan please 😁). But I don’t agree on the reason you attach to it. Because they don’t feel like it? Their al enthusiasts there as well. Of course they WANT to do it. But apparently they don’t have the resources to do a book for all these factions and this makes the most business sense. Now they clean up everything as soon as possible and start working from there. No different as they did with legions of Nagash. As somebody else put it, it’s  the legions of order book.  But of course, unless one of us is a teammember in GW who helps decide the timeline and contents of these books will never know the reason.  (And to be absolutely clear. This is not a response to the earlier conversation, this last paragraph is solely a response to you) 

[DatHomieSilverSurfer]

44 minutes ago, Verminlord said:

Extremely dissapointed, but holding back rage until we see the actual book... 😑 

There are scenarios I could see this working out but GW hasn't exactly inspired confidence with their last few books. 

the Skaven, Slaanesh, Gloomspite Gits books were all phenomenal... I don't know what you're talking about. 

 

 

And all this grumbling before any other details have been announced  is both very dwarfish and hilarious. Based on the  soup-tome design paradigm  set with BoC, Skaven, gloomspite there will be effective rules and options to play the dispossessed just as effectively alone as with other pro-sigmar oldworld folk. People are starting to make things up in their heads and get angry over nothing lol

[Ironbreaker]

2 minutes ago, DatHomieSilverSurfer said:

the Skaven, Slaanesh, Gloomspite Gits books were all phenomenal... I don't know what you're talking about. 

 

 

And all this grumbling before any other details have been announced  is both very dwarfish and hilarious. Based on the  soup-tome design paradigm  set with BoC, Skaven, gloomspite there will be effective rules and options to play the dispossessed just as effectively alone as with other pro-sigmar oldworld folk. People are starting to make things up in their heads and get angry over nothing lol

I don’t want to cover of my army book to be humans and Stormcast 

[Kramer]

27 minutes ago, Verminlord said:

If we wanted multirace armies we already had GA order and firestorm rules. 

Just something that popped into my head. We already have those in a sense in every other GA. In Chaos Tzeentch springs to mind: Deamon, mortal, Tzaangor. In Destruction Gits: Trolls and Gits. Death of course Legions of Nagas: from mortals, to a lot of immortals  

But that's a whole different conversation. Just something that popped into my head.

[DatHomieSilverSurfer]

2 minutes ago, Ironbreaker said:

I don’t want to cover of my army book to be humans and Stormcast 

... then glue a dwarf cutout on top of the zwei hander . or wait because precedent has shown that the dispossessed showing up in this tome doesn't preclude them from getting their own tome down the line. or just sell all your models and quit the game i guess, idk

 

 

I was waiting for a solo Clan Skryre book, but I got skaventide... yet it has all the good rules and lore I need for skryre. Just because it doesn't have an arch-warlock or pack of jezzails on the cover doesn't keep me from using the book that functionally does everything I need

Edited July 20, 2019 by DatHomieSilverSurfer

[Kramer]

Just now, DatHomieSilverSurfer said:

... then glue a dwarf cutout on top of the zwei hander . or wait because precedent has shown that the dispossessed showing up in this tome doesn't preclude them from getting their own tome down the line. or just sell all your models and quit the game i guess, idk

Haha with the amount of post it's already in my KO book I could easily imagine a book full post it's with drawings of dwarfs on it. Just stuck on every human in there 😂

[Zadolix]

"No fewer than seven sets of allegiance abilities allow you to field mixed forces of duardin, humans and aelves, with a massive roster of units available. " 

"The arrival of Cities of Sigmar does mean a handful of Order units will be leaving the range and becoming Warhammer Legends later this year. We’ll be providing a full list of which ones closer to the time. The number of units available in the book is still vast, with loads of warscrolls."

I just hope this means my warriors/thunderers/quarrellers will be in the book. It would be odd for them to have just published them in GHB19 then axe them a few months later. What are likely candidates from other order factions to get axed? Is there alot of old finecast stuff around on still? Our range is all thankfully plastic. 

Edited July 20, 2019 by Zadolix

[Ironbreaker]

I’m sure you guys will criticize me, but the books are very special to me. I went so long without a rulebook. When I got my first army book last year with Adeptus Custodes in 40k, it felt so magical to flip through the pages and take in all the fantastic art. I won’t be able to do that with this book as it will be all mixed and also Stormcasts. 

[Ironbreaker]

Just now, Zadolix said:

"No fewer than seven sets of allegiance abilities allow you to field mixed forces of duardin, humans and aelves, with a massive roster of units available. " 

"The arrival of Cities of Sigmar does mean a handful of Order units will be leaving the range and becoming Warhammer Legends later this year. We’ll be providing a full list of which ones closer to the time. The number of units available in the book is still vast, with loads of warscrolls."

I just hope this means my warriors/thunderers/quarrellers will be in the book. It would be odd for them to have just published them in GHB19 them a few months later. What are likely candidates from other order factions to get axed? Is there alot of old finecast stuff around on still? Our range is all thankfully plastic. 

I think the elf sword guys are resin.

[Zadolix]

19 minutes ago, Ironbreaker said:

I’m sure you guys will criticize me, but the books are very special to me. I went so long without a rulebook. When I got my first army book last year with Adeptus Custodes in 40k, it felt so magical to flip through the pages and take in all the fantastic art. I won’t be able to do that with this book as it will be all mixed and also Stormcasts. 

I feel the same sentiments to be honest. There's nothing better than that proud feeling of having a high quality printed book full of art and lore and rules of your favourite faction. It becomes a leisure to read and pore over. 

[Thiagoma]

26 minutes ago, Zadolix said:

What are likely candidates from other order factions to get axed?

From Elves: Griffon, Seaguard, Reavers, Lion Rangers and possibly Swordmasters.

[Verminlord]

51 minutes ago, DatHomieSilverSurfer said:

the Skaven, Slaanesh, Gloomspite Gits books were all phenomenal... I don't know what you're talking about. 

 

 

And all this grumbling before any other details have been announced  is both very dwarfish and hilarious. Based on the  soup-tome design paradigm  set with BoC, Skaven, gloomspite there will be effective rules and options to play the dispossessed just as effectively alone as with other pro-sigmar oldworld folk. People are starting to make things up in their heads and get angry over nothing lol

Gloomspite and BoC yes, skaven and FeC were flavorful but horribly balanced. Moulder and eshin are still Garbo, and don't get me started with FeC gristlegore and warp lightning vortex. Ghb 19 copy pasted our bare bones Allegiance abilities. 

 

56 minutes ago, Kramer said:

No no read the whole conversation. Nowhere did I say it wasn’t. I’m only reacting to wild, and frankly untrue claims. That’s why I chose deliberately what I quoted. The parts I didn’t quote I either agree with or is opinion and everybody’s entitled to their own  

but regarding that. Yes of course it’s an easy fix. See my earlier post. I fully agree it’s a bandaid solution and I hope that dispossessed are the first that get the nighthaunt treatment (and in the same timespan please 😁). But I don’t agree on the reason you attach to it. Because they don’t feel like it? Their al enthusiasts there as well. Of course they WANT to do it. But apparently they don’t have the resources to do a book for all these factions and this makes the most business sense. Now they clean up everything as soon as possible and start working from there. No different as they did with legions of Nagash. As somebody else put it, it’s  the legions of order book.  But of course, unless one of us is a teammember in GW who helps decide the timeline and contents of these books will never know the reason.  (And to be absolutely clear. This is not a response to the earlier conversation, this last paragraph is solely a response to you) 

Fair enough, just very dissapointed as this book means that if we are getting a dedicated dwarf book it's a long ways off.

[Kramer]

5 minutes ago, Verminlord said:

Fair enough, just very dissapointed as this book means that if we are getting a dedicated dwarf book it's a long ways off.

Yeah I get that. But I also fear the bad book fast, and then waiting four years for an update scenario. I don't know, without knowing the schedule it's all guess work anyway. I'm just thinking it's a step in the right direction.

Until GW updates everything and drops all the warscrolls that won't be getting something... I don't think that they will redo much nor create new until then. 

[Clan's Cynic]

1 hour ago, Ironbreaker said:

I’m sure you guys will criticize me, but the books are very special to me. I went so long without a rulebook. When I got my first army book last year with Adeptus Custodes in 40k, it felt so magical to flip through the pages and take in all the fantastic art. I won’t be able to do that with this book as it will be all mixed and also Stormcasts. 

You're right, but I'd rather get a shared book with some Dwarf art in it than flick through GHB that includes literally everybody and maybe one Dispossessed picture.

[ColsBols]

If this will let me play dwarf +ironweld soup competitively and fluff my own Karak I will be so happy

[Skreech Verminking]

 

2 hours ago, DatHomieSilverSurfer said:

the Skaven, Slaanesh, Gloomspite Gits books were all phenomenal... I don't know what you're talking about. 

 

 

And all this grumbling before any other details have been announced  is both very dwarfish and hilarious. Based on the  soup-tome design paradigm  set with BoC, Skaven, gloomspite there will be effective rules and options to play the dispossessed just as effectively alone as with other pro-sigmar oldworld folk. People are starting to make things up in their heads and get angry over nothing lol

Yeah the skaven, the Gloomspite gitz, all got an amazing book, but believe me this disappointed was a big factor as well so c empathy players really wanted that only skyre or pestilence book. Not sure why though, They were meant to coexist under themselves anyways, never understood and still am not why Gw just ripped them apart anyways.

2 hours ago, Ironbreaker said:

I don’t want to cover of my army book to be humans and Stormcast 

Nor do I and should anybody buy me a squad of them, they’ll be cut down to limbs and body part  and used as banner materials for my skaven or future Kharak dwarf project.

2 hours ago, DatHomieSilverSurfer said:

I was waiting for a solo Clan Skryre book, but I got skaventide... yet it has all the good rules and lore I need for skryre. Just because it doesn't have an arch-warlock or pack of jezzails on the cover doesn't keep me from using the book that functionally does everything I need

Well at least you got the most seats on the council.

but just wait till we are back-back,

Yes-yes, make examples, for-for the council, musk of fear-fear is-is needed to 

comtroll-rule, plan-scheming Skaven.

Anyways, the disappointment is there, that’s definitely true even for me, especially now that the hated Storm-things are a part of the book. But in the end let’s face it every time a new book comes out people complain about it, about the rules that we haven’t seen yet, about the lore we haven’t read yet and the made up grudges of books that where instead not released.

combining all of those faction gives armies like the free peoples, dispossessed etc. new rules update warscroll that needed a change for so long and more.

stuff that you would be waiting for maybe another 1-4years.

No I’m not misjudging your ability to wait, since all of us old world players have been waiting the last 6-11years if not even longer for an update of our armies, but I doubt that we want to wait another 4or more years, because I am so desperately in need for an update of our old world army battletome.

the battles are literally getting boring, when your playing like always against Dok, fec and The hated Storm-things 

although that probably my problem of facing the wrong opponents.

also in the end I think the book might make the options rather interesting.

sure we might not get rules for playing different kind of kharaks, but in the end I’ll be taking anyways a free Cities allegiance  that’ll fit the bill and fluff of my imagined kharak.

 

Edited July 21, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Thiagoma]

Tho i understand the frustration of the soup book, the ability to ally Fyreslayers, KO and Ironweld doesnt allow for a cool Dispossessed themed army without using ally points? 

 

I dont think the keywords are going away, so maybe new models can show up.

[AlmGandix3]

Lore wise this fits the current dispossessed situation. 

There was a picture of the Fyreslayer Battletome posted before that mentions that Grungni is up to something. I think if the story progresses further we will see a "not dispossessed" (since we will probably get some karaks back) Tome.

For now it fits and is the easiest way to balance dispossessed. I lost most hope in dispossessed since the ghb dropped and turned to tempest eye, because I saw no way to make dispossessed work any other way. I like the cities of Sigmar, fluff wise (I read the first right Lamentations book and really liked the idea of the city excelsis and the mixed party working for Grungni) and probably rule wise.

Don't get me wrong a duardin tome would be awesome but I don't see how they would make it work with massive overhaul. How many speed boost abilities or teleports do they want to give us in our current state to make us viable in all battleplans? 

The easiest and fluff wise best method is the cities of Sigmar (at least for the moment).

[Marrdt]

Has any of you read the Soul Wars book for example? It is clear there that what is called the "Riven Clans" are living separately from the inhabitants of the free city of Glymmsforge. They come to their aid, yes, but they don't live amongst them, not anymore. They used to take building contracts apparently, but now have their own underground solution. They come to Glymmsforge because their own halls are overrun with undead from the Necroquake - and even then reluctantly.

I am absolutely certain that even though Dispossessed fight in the alliance of Sigmar, they are also doing their own thing and will continue to do so. Considering the plot that unfolds in "The Eight Lamentations" describing how Grungni leaves Azyr and how he is doing is own thing, shows that the Dispossessed and their pantheon (currently one active god) are becoming more independent not more mixed in.

There is nothing to suggest that the Dispossessed are not getting their own book later along the line. It actually makes little to no sense to NOT make it. You only need to print a book and everyone with an army will get it anyway. Its a lot easier than creating an entire new line. I think Flesh Eater Courts, Skaven, Beasts of Chaos etc are perfect examples of that. The entirety of the Death range is a good example of how the fact that there is a Grand Alliance spanning solution doesn't mean you cant get separate books anymore. Its not like the current Dispossessed allegiance is going to be discontinued or anything.

Its obviously just a nod towards showing which races WILL continue to be supported. The Ogre Tyrant is obviously a peace offering to Ogres players saying "Guys, we are working on it, but we cant do everything at once. Its on the way, and this single model is a token of it". This is much the same with the Cities of Sigmar.

Do I know for a fact that we will get our own book eventually? Nope. And neither does anyone know about anything of the opposite. So far, they are just trying to get some kinds of reasonable rules out for everyone, so I  think this is an OK solution until they can get more stuff out.

Edited July 21, 2019 by Marrdt

[Marrdt]

Writing this slightly separately, as a thought about potential warscrolls/rules updates.

To me, this is a temporary solution, which for  time being, actually lets us play Dispossessed and their artillery in the same army without jumping through crazy loops and bounds. It also means that all the warscrolls of the related armies are likely to be updated so no more weird crew rules which make any sort of competitive use of artillery impossible. I would be very surprised if they didn't update the relevant scrolls.

Yeah, no race specific rules updates or anything, but Im sure it will come eventually. No sense keeping all the races so distinct and different in the lore books if they plan to erase them. Until then, I look forward to using these rules as a placeholder. Hopefully going to allow us better compositions than the current Dispossessed rules, with artillery etc not being an awkward allies solution.

Edited July 21, 2019 by Marrdt

[King Belegar]

Tbh I'm just excited to see the not-Stormcast humans and duardin get some attention!

I imagine the reference to some old miniatures being discontinued applies mostly to the old elves, though I wouldn't be surprised if we lost the Unforged and our Quarrellers/Thunderers.

[Arkanaut Admiral]

I think that all the fine cast/metal miniatures still remaining plus the very old plastic kits with odd numbers will go.  

But I hope that they won’t.  Especially because they managed to retain some old Skaven minis.

If they keep the profiles at least then they can happily carry on into the future.

Edited July 21, 2019 by Arkanaut Admiral

[Pyrescribe]

7 hours ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

But I hope that they won’t.  Especially because they managed to retain some old Skaven minis.

It is amazing they have the gall to repackage 20+ year old models like gutter runners and csm bikers, but they'll delete non PG high elves.

[Lord marcus]

14 minutes ago, Pyrescribe said:

It is amazing they have the gall to repackage 20+ year old models like gutter runners and csm bikers, but they'll delete non PG high elves.

not just repackage, but demand the same price.