AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[DarrinTheOccult]

42 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Great point. 

I still have this weird prediction in my head thunderers/special weapons will be choose effect A or B (extra rend vs range or something) and the khemist powering the weapons to select both at once. 

But in that case chemist would only be useful with 1 unit in the entire battletome, I don't think so

[Kramer]

7 minutes ago, DarrinTheOccult said:

But in that case chemist would only be useful with 1 unit in the entire battletome, I don't think so

I meant with special weapons also the other units with limited weapons. Still probably wrong  

but Kind of like the arcanum in stormcast with sequitors an castigators. in their case the resource that powers weapons is magic. With KO it’s eathergold, which khemist manipulate. 

[Ashman]

They need to just give Arkanauts a way to get a save after save (6up or maybe 5up) with say a hero bubble (typical duardin stuff).  It would be nice to see Arkanauts and bubbleboys get a bravery buff within a Ironclad bubble (and possibly a Frigate/Gunhaulers bubble - maybe less so with them) as well.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Ashman
Kant does gramma rigt

[Stormrage89]

1 hour ago, Ashman said:

They need to just give Arkanauts a way to get a save after save (6up or maybe 5up) with say a hero bubble (typical duardin stuff).  It would be nice to see Arkanauts and bubbleboys get a bravery buff within a Ironclad bubble (and possibly a Frigate/Gunhaulers bubble - maybe less so with them) as well.

I agree. But I hope it happens in a different way. Like if the gunhaulers  is next to a unit, it would gave them "cover fire" which would be -1 to hit in the shooting and melee phase or something like that.

[Rachmani]

5 hours ago, Phasteon said:

To be fair, most units need buff heroes to be the most effective, thats kind of how the game works. Would be cooler though if we had more ways of doing that.

That‘s totally fine. Khemist buff is just too extreme. A buff should never double a units output.

[Tittliewinks22]

2 hours ago, Rachmani said:

That‘s totally fine. Khemist buff is just too extreme. A buff should never double a units output.

It's not really doubling, it's +1a. Almost every army in the game has buffs to give units +1 attack to melee weapons. I think the shooty heavy army should have a comparable buff.

[Malakithe]

12 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

Some other random infos:

- ships are super expensive (seems that specialized list is mandatory...)

- kermist loose their boost

- the new hero is expensive but make the balloon guys battleline (nice and not surprised, as expected)

....to be continued...

Yeah I figured ships would jump back up with all these new abilities. My guess is frigates will be 260-300pts. Ironclads might not change. And depending on the changes the gunhauler might go up to 200pts. Making all of their uses limited

[Aeryenn]

Always wanted ships to be expensive and deadly. If their role is reduced to dwarf taxi then it's a disaster. Frigates and especially Ironclads should be fearfull machines that are capable of destroying whole units of basic infrantry in a single turn.

[Phasteon]

25 minutes ago, Aryann said:

Always wanted ships to be expensive and deadly. If their role is reduced to dwarf taxi then it's a disaster. Frigates and especially Ironclads should be fearfull machines that are capable of destroying whole units of basic infrantry in a single turn.

This. 

If you pay 300pts for a Frigate with 1 Cannonshot 14w and a 5+ and you pay another 120 for the Unit inside you are paying 25% of your armies points for sole random shots and a unit of Arkanauts that kills ~ 5-6* enemy models. 

Not that impressive if they dont change the output of those units.

 

*models with 1w 5+ or sth like that

Edited January 2, 2020 by Phasteon

[cofaxest]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Yeah I figured ships would jump back up with all these new abilities. My guess is frigates will be 260-300pts. Ironclads might not change. And depending on the changes the gunhauler might go up to 200pts. Making all of their uses limited

For 300 pts frigate must be 40k leman russ in the world of AoS.

[novembermike]

28 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

This. 

If you pay 300pts for a Frigate with 1 Cannonshot 14w and a 5+ and you pay another 120 for the Unit inside you are paying 25% of your armies points for sole random shots and a unit of Arkanauts that kills ~ 5-6* enemy models. 

Not that impressive if they dont change the output of those units.

 

*models with 1w 5+ or sth like that

Yeah, special rules are nice but at some point you have to actually kill the enemy or take a hit. The dwarves themselves don't need to be that tough (and the models don't sell that they have a ton of armor or toughness) but the ships should be pretty damned tough pound for pound and have some damage.

[Kramer]

47 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

This. 

If you pay 300pts for a Frigate with 1 Cannonshot 14w and a 5+ and you pay another 120 for the Unit inside you are paying 25% of your armies points for sole random shots and a unit of Arkanauts that kills ~ 5-6* enemy models. 

Not that impressive if they dont change the output of those units.

 

*models with 1w 5+ or sth like that

Although I get the sentiment. (And agree with it)
But 420 point is 21%. Don’t round up to prove your point . If you want to round it off it’s 20%, 🤔 And that includes your estimated 100pts rise. 
 

then secondly if you take it as a mobile gun platform you put elites in there. So 15 thunderers and the frigate together, which you try and how hide as much as possible turn 1, can reach anything on the table due to fly high and 18” range. 

if they don’t change anything, then it does this amount of damage. (First vs 4+ second vs 5+)

 

 

but of course there will be some buffs on both sides in play. And that’s if they don’t change any profiles. I’d still take that. Because of the potential of the double turn it will be hard for GW to really up the firepower. but we’ll see.

just for funsies also did arkanauts company in the frigate. Which was a very on point estimate vs 5+ 1 wound models 😁

but you have to be in 12” range  

Edited January 2, 2020 by Kramer

[Phasteon]

42 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Although I get the sentiment. (And agree with it)
But 420 point is 21%. Don’t round up to prove your point . If you want to round it off it’s 20%, 🤔 And that includes your estimated 100pts rise. 
 

then secondly if you take it as a mobile gun platform you put elites in there. So 15 thunderers and the frigate together, which you try and how hide as much as possible turn 1, can reach anything on the table due to fly high and 18” range. 

if they don’t change anything, then it does this amount of damage. (First vs 4+ second vs 5+)

 

 

but of course there will be some buffs on both sides in play. And that’s if they don’t change any profiles. I’d still take that. Because of the potential of the double turn it will be hard for GW to really up the firepower. but we’ll see.

just for funsies also did arkanauts company in the frigate. Which was a very on point estimate vs 5+ 1 wound models 😁

but you have to be in 12” range  

Ok sorry, 20% i miscalculated it, doesnt really matter anyway because you‘ll pay 300-400pts for heroes that will sit in those boats too. Pretty weak though to assume I wrote the wrong number intentionally to prove my point. 

 

The point still stands though as you mentioned. And you cant just take boats full if elites, you will also need your battleline. But I wont start a rant about assuming optimal circumstances and putting things in vacuums just to prove a point 😜

Edited January 2, 2020 by Phasteon

[Beliman]

Another set of rumors:

• Skyhooks and nearly all shooting reduced to rend -1
• Armour save improved almost army wide by +1. 
• Arkanauts can only take one of each weapon per 10. 
• Khemist buff is gone
• Significant point changes.

[GeneralZero]

So, the big question for me is: are the gunhaulers and the balloon guys (skywardens/endriggers) any good? (in fact, the content of the new box)? 

[Beliman]

4 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

So, the big question for me is: are the gunhaulers and the balloon guys (skywardens/endriggers) any good? (in fact, the content of the new box)? 

Nobody knows. At this moment, the balloon guys are awesome (if you build Endrinriggers), but everything can change in a week.
We know that Barak-Zon's skywardens can do a lot of damage if they charge, so another option for the balloon boys of the box, and there is a rumor that makes this dudes battleline...

We don't have any info about Gunhaulers, but at least, it seems that they can fly now.
 

[Malakithe]

1 hour ago, cofaxest said:

For 300 pts frigate must be 40k leman russ in the world of AoS.

More like flying land raiders. Except land raiders are garbage for their points...so....yeeeeah

[Gecktron]

41 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Another set of rumors:

• Skyhooks and nearly all shooting reduced to rend -1
• Armour save improved almost army wide by +1. 
• Arkanauts can only take one of each weapon per 10. 
• Khemist buff is gone
• Significant point changes.

Most of that makes sense, but the lack of ranged rend hurts... 

[Malakithe]

44 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Another set of rumors:

• Skyhooks and nearly all shooting reduced to rend -1
• Armour save improved almost army wide by +1. 
• Arkanauts can only take one of each weapon per 10. 
• Khemist buff is gone
• Significant point changes.

The rend makes no sense considering all the large guns and fancy tech weapons

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Phasteon said:

he point still stands though as you mentioned. And you cant just take boats full if elites, you will also need your battleline. But I wont start a rant about assuming optimal circumstances and putting things in vacuums just to prove a point

He what’s the thread for otherwise  

but ziflin man! Frigates are your battleline of course full of elites. 
And the flip side I would like to think I will take 20+ arkanauts units to claim objectives. 

[Nick907]

Where are the point cost and weapon loadout rumors coming from? Are people just guessing, or is there some sort of proof? 

[Rachmani]

4 hours ago, Tittliewinks22 said:

It's not really doubling, it's +1a. Almost every army in the game has buffs to give units +1 attack to melee weapons. I think the shooty heavy army should have a comparable buff.

Except it is doubling, at least in most cases. 
I‘m not even saying a +1A shouldn‘t exist as a buff (many a command ability does that).

I‘m specifically saying that a more or less permanent buff that, in most relevant cases doubles the firing rate of the weapons it buffs will automatically lead to a point tax that is unhealthy for the the army that has it. It limits options (because it ups in value every low attack, high damage weapon) per se & becomes mandatory. To the point where you don‘t field certain units without the buff.

[Phasteon]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

Another set of rumors:

• Skyhooks and nearly all shooting reduced to rend -1
• Armour save improved almost army wide by +1. 
• Arkanauts can only take one of each weapon per 10. 
• Khemist buff is gone
• Significant point changes.

Maybe the Khemist buff is gone from the warscroll but surely gets replaced by a list of different abilities. Cant imagine they would make him a blunt shooting character

[plavski]

45 minutes ago, Nick907 said:

Where are the point cost and weapon loadout rumors coming from? Are people just guessing, or is there some sort of proof? 

There is no proof. The most we have been given here is "from FB".

[Nick907]

2 minutes ago, plavski said:

There is no proof. The most we have been given here is "from FB".

So speculation then? Sounds about right. Most of these make sense but until the book comes out they are just assumptions. I’d rather not change my arkanunts, really enjoy the volleygun aesthetic and rolling 18 dice for three models haha