AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Gwydion]

1 minute ago, Beliman said:

Is that true? Why?? 😲

 

Modifiers are capped at +/-1. Being in a garrison makes you 1 harder to hit and gives you +1 to save. Look Out Sir also makes you 1 harder to hit. So the only time it would have any effect is if the opponent somehow had two +1 to hit mods on their unit.

[Beliman]

Ouch!! yes, you are right. Maybe it's fine with All Out Attacks going around for a +1 to hit! Time will tell

[Phasteon]

Finally Skywardens become interesting, even outside of Barak Zon.

6 Skywardens hooking on alphastriking Zilfin Ironclad turn 1 can do some pretty good damage with all out attack. 

12 shots at 3+/3+ followed by 13 attacks at 3+/3+ is enough to kill something off an objective while also distracting the enemy from our more important stuff. 

 

Also, I dont know who talked about nerfs, I see new triumph as a huge buff!

I always used my triumphs for reroll saves to survive the enemies counterpunch, now that I have unleash hell, all out defense I can gladly take +1 to wound !

[Tinniez]

1 hour ago, Phasteon said:

Also, I dont know who talked about nerfs, I see new triumph as a huge buff!

Let's be real - the new Triumphs are objectively worse than the old ones. There is no merit in denying that our allegiance ability is now less powerful and versatile than it was previously.

My hope that GW will give us some more flavourful Guild Triumphs, similar to the ones in Broken Realms: Be'lakor.

Now, with that out of the way - in AoS3, we will have a way to benefit from shooting in our opponent's charge phase, which is extremely potent. The changed command point rules also allow us to easily benefit from a +1 to our saves - which can be applied reactively. We also have multiple ways of benefitting from (increasingly rare) rerolls to hit.

Without an understanding of how our units will be pointed, it is impossible to say if AoS3 heralds a net positive or negative result for the Kharadron Overlords. What is apparent is that our faction has been in a very strong place for a long time and will probably remain powerful coming into AoS3. Personally, I hope that we find ourselves placed a little further back in the pack, so that people stop complaining about our faction and we can enjoy playing our beautiful flying Duardin without feeling like we are bringing a nuclear warhead to an acorn war.

Anyway, just my two cents. I'm very excited for AoS3 and look forward to the discussion it brings!

[Gwydion]

I feel it's worth pointing out that command abilities are once per phase and that no leader can issue more than one and no unit can benefit from more than one at a time. I'm seeing a lot of confusion on this point.

On that note, Unleash Hell is great but it's going to be very easy for armies to bait. Charge an aetherwing/giant rat into an Ironclad before sending in the real attackers and your opponent gets to waste a command point blowing it up with ludicrous overkill or they just don't get to use Unleash Hell at all.

[Badlander86]

My gripe is how we are left with Aether-Gold almost being redundant due to it being limited to 10-man units, Heroes and Skyvessels. With the limitations on Reinforced units, you could at most have a 15-man Thunderer unit if you have them as Battleline in Barak Nar, but only a 9-man unit of Skyriggers if you have and Endrinmaster with Dirigible as your General which makes it impossible to have your Skyriggers have Aether-Gold with the current rules and unit load out, unless they change Skyriggers to run in units of 5 instead of 3 with a mark-up in points. Its very...messy and de-synergistic.

Also, the lost of the Re-roll saves Triumph sucks badly. I dunno about you guys but most opponents make a beeline to take out my Ironclad and for all the joys it is to see the Ironclad shoot, its not meant to tank. It goes down fairly easily to Mortal Wounds spamming or insane damage outputs. Having the re-roll all Saves triumph gave it more survivability. Don't give the whole "its all about positioning" BS. I've seen armies close the gap with just natural warscroll abilities or faction abilities. Maybe people just always meta-build against me. I dunno. Regardless, we are losing a lot with very little in return for now unless some major changes to Unit Warscrolls are in the works. One of the less savory players in my community joked it was about time GW shelved KO. I hope he's wrong.

Add that to a smaller table, we don't have room to maneuver, we'll be charged by most enemies in a single movement phase and I have a feeling we can't field as many ships as before. If the answer to the KO in tournaments issue (which to this day, is overblown beyond all proportions for several reasons I won't go into) is to just render most of their rules redundant, I'd say AoS 3.0 hit its mark. 

[Dongilles]

7 hours ago, Phasteon said:

Finally Skywardens become interesting, even outside of Barak Zon.

6 Skywardens hooking on alphastriking Zilfin Ironclad turn 1 can do some pretty good damage with all out attack. 

12 shots at 3+/3+ 

Skywardens cant shoot after fly high as they need to 9” away from the enemy and have a 9” range sadly

[Gwydion]

Yeah, the Skywardens are just worse at what they want to do than Endrinriggers. And pretty much always have been.

[Beliman]

We won a lot of new options with all this generic enhancements. We can even try crazy stuff like a Runesmitter on Magmadorth in Barak-Thryng, and give him an Arcane Tome with Ghost-mist and Heal just for the LOLs 🤣

Imho, the only downgrades for KOs in 3.0 are the Triumphs (but I'm really happy about the new ones) and all the +1 saves abilities and reactions that can take down our Rend (and we don't have a lot of inbuild mw).

 

 

[stratigo]

34 minutes ago, Beliman said:

We won a lot of new options with all this generic enhancements. We can even try crazy stuff like a Runesmitter on Magmadorth in Barak-Thryng, and give him an Arcane Tome with Ghost-mist and Heal just for the LOLs 🤣

Imho, the only downgrades for KOs in 3.0 are the Triumphs (but I'm really happy about the new ones) and all the +1 saves abilities and reactions that can take down our Rend (and we don't have a lot of inbuild mw).

 

 

 and possible movement downgrades.

 

I think people are going "Oh we will just use all the command points ever" When KO are probably going to get 2 a turn.

[Gwydion]

I suspect the value of the Admiral will go up in people's eyes. He has a CP generating command trait, a CP emulating artifact, and his CAs are no longer as redundant with generic CAs as they once were.

[Tinniez]

4 hours ago, Gwydion said:

I suspect the value of the Admiral will go up in people's eyes. He has a CP generating command trait, a CP emulating artifact, and his CAs are no longer as redundant with generic CAs as they once were.

Admiral stonks are definitely on the up and up! A "free" warscroll CA definitely has some value in AoS3.  I'll need to get my Bugmansson mini painted up to fill the role!

[zilberfrid]

17 hours ago, Beliman said:

 🤣Imho, the only downgrades for KOs in 3.0 are the Triumphs (but I'm really happy about the new ones) and all the +1 saves abilities and reactions that can take down our Rend (and we don't have a lot of inbuild mw).

The other downgrade, of course, is applying a god to Kharadron, reducing the faction to Thryng only.

[Frowny]

It seems to me that good ol' arkonauts are some of the bigger winners. +1 to hit is great on them, and unleash hell is also solid for them, especially if they are on an objective. 20 arkonauts will do 13 wounds to a 4+ save over 2 turns even if they are charged, and it is somewhat more if you do the math with the actual good weapons. You can also do things like all out defence on the ironclad and still unleash hell on the arkonauts inside to really make charging and damaging you a pain. 

they also benefit from the extra d6 move, as they are a bit slow otherwise. 

I'm always surprised I don't see more lists with 4-5 squads of them. They seem great to take objectives and give something for your actual ships to maneuver around. 

[Boar]

33 minutes ago, Frowny said:

You can also do things like all out defence on the ironclad and still unleash hell on the arkonauts inside to really make charging and damaging you a pain.

Since unleash hell is in charge phase I would do it with Ironclad, no gain for going with Arkos in such situation

[Beliman]

The CP/CA micromanaging is going to be really fun!

How many CPs can you generate, how many CA can you issue without spending CP, when can you issue them, who can issue/recieve them, etc... A lot of choices!!!

[Arzalyn]

KO points from the GHB 2021 (no changes in unit size or roles):

Arkanauts 100

Frigate 250

Ironclad 490

Khemist 90

Navigator 95

Admiral 125

Thundrik 150

Brokk 255

Endrinmaster with Dirigible 190

Endrinmaster 105

Endrinriggers 120

Gunhauler 155

Thunderers 135

Skywardens 115

Edited June 17, 2021 by Arzalyn

[zilberfrid]

I'm not sure the 5 points will save the Skywardens, but decoupling them from Endrinriggers is a good thing.

[stratigo]

17 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

I'm not sure the 5 points will save the Skywardens, but decoupling them from Endrinriggers is a good thing.

I think the healing is worth 5 points per three, so, probably no saving.

[novembermike]

That looks fine to me I think? Reinforce a thunderer squad for big shoots and the rest seem pretty competitive for the points.

[Tinniez]

Admirals, it appears that we've come out of the point shake up fairly well positioned!

A few big price hikes, especially on Endrinriggers and Gunhaulers - but barely a scratch on the Ironclad and even a slight drop for Navigators! I'm very comfortable with these changes, especially when compared to other factions.

[Gauche]

Been tinkering with some builds since the leak. It feels like you're almost expected to play with an Ironclad now, they barely went up in comparison to most things. Since the Edition also made them even better, not a bad place to be in. Gunhaulers are the thing that got the biggest hammer, people are down on that but if you could spam 8-9 in a 3.0 army it could have gotten out of hand. Still, lots of weird things that I want to test:

Heroes

Admiral

Aetheric Navigator

Aetherkhemist [General - Collector] [Arcane Tome]

Aetherkhemist [Spell in a Bottle - Wildfire Taurus]

Endrinmaster

Endrinmaster

Battleline

10x Arkanauts w/ Volley Pistol, Volley Gun, Light Skyhook, Skypike

10x Arkanauts w/ Volley Pistol, Volley Gun, Light Skyhook, Skypike

10x Arkanauts w/ Volley Pistol, Volley Gun, Light Skyhook, Skypike

Behemoth

Ironclad (undecided between Great Sky Cannon/Volley Cannon - To Be Tested) [The Last Word]

Other

Gunhauler w/ Sky Cannon

10x Thunderers w/ 2x Aethercannon, Mortar, Decksweeper

Endless Spells

Soulsnare Shackles

Wildfire Taurus

1990/2000 Points | Battle Regiment x2 (All units go in one or the other overall)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lots of weirdness here but I think everything is legal (hard to work with leaks instead of actual books). The idea is all the Heroes and the Thunderers go in the Ironclad while the Gunhauler provides support for it and the Arkanauts plus Navigator hold the backline/Objectives.

The list is all in on the Ironclad, which is workable. With Unleash Hell and The Last Word charging the thing is a nightmare, since it's fast getting a chaff Charge to avoid Unleash Hell is harder than normal. Admiral gives it re-roll Hits or can make the Heroes very strong fighters via Repel Boarders! Endrinmasters bring the healing and Aetherkhemists can buff the Thunderers via their newer Triumph. Very all in but it's a lot of damage, I have a lot of healing, and a few ways to get the Ironclad on a 2+ Save.

The spice is from the Arcane Tome and Spell in a Bottle. Arcane Tome gives my Mystic Shield access, to save CP, or to drop the Soulsnare Shackles. These are unfortunately going to be very swingy, if an opponent doesn't dispel them they can't really interact with the list. I wanted an actual Wizard to have that so I can Dispel and Resummon if needed. The Taurus was my solution to charging in with the Ironclad, it's a lot of individual Heroes to choose to Fight with and that's not very strong. Taurus gives me Fight Last when I need it which I think is worth the cost when you really need it.

Since Triumphs were nerfed I rate them much lower. On the Arakanauts I'm interested in ignoring Battleshock so they stick around. For most everyone else it's +1 to Wound, another reason I went with some fighty stuff as a lot of the Hero guns are on 2's anyways. Triumphs are still good on Skyvessels thankfully.

Being two drops should get Turn order in most games which I think is more important to KO than any other Battalion benefits. The only thing I'm undecided on is to play custom Skyport (Re-roll against FLY or one particular unit, d3 more Aethergold for the Ironclad and others, d3 Heal for emergency Ironclad survival) or the old standby of Barak-Zilfin. The latter would cost me an Artefact so I'm favoring custom until the FAQs.

Main drawbacks would be Missions, I have very few bodies overall, but I think there's enough offense to get people off Objectives and claim them for my end of turn. KO are actually very good at Battle Tactics as well which helps a bit. I also have no Monsters for the Season but that's just a reality of the Faction unless you Ally in. I'd rather focus on killing them for the extra VP per Round. Hoping this is a fun list to put on the table when I get the chance, barring me missing any illegalities. ><

[GrandAdmiralAutumn]

I think people are overlooking possibly our new most powerful asset, the Alpha pack battalion (in the GHB).

its 2-3 Behemoths (frigate/Ironclad) with the ability that all units in the battalion can make a normal move of up to D6" before turn 1.  And instead of making a normal move, our boats can fly high.  

Now everyone is Zilfin.

So my proposed list is:

Barak Zon 

Battle Regiment:
Dirigible - General
Dirigible
10 Thunderers
10 Thunderers
6 Wardens
6 Wardens
10 Arkanauts

Alpha Pack:
Frigate
Frigate

1980p, 3 drops

The plan being to deploy 2 frigates, 12 wardens, 20 thunderers and 2 dirigible in the opponents face, use the low drop count to go first, then shoot and charge the enemy into the ground turn 1. (Zon wardens are pretty terrifying)

It has some flaws, if your opponent can out drop you and that would put you into an akward position where you would need to deploy defensivley, and as with all alpha-strike-style armies if you don't cripple them in your opening volly, the counter attack will be hard on you.

But I think this can put out enough damage to end most games turn 1.

What do you guys think?
 

 

[Beliman]

@GrandAdmiralAutumn Zilfin-footnote for everyone? That's madness!!!

Btw, have a sit on our Geldraad... 

[Malakithe]

3 hours ago, GrandAdmiralAutumn said:

its 2-3 Behemoths (frigate/Ironclad) with the ability that all units in the battalion can make a normal move of up to D6" before turn 1.  And instead of making a normal move, our boats can fly high.  

Oh thats just dirty lol