AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[JonnyTheKing]

People complaining that a book is not top tier without playing them yet? Yep, it's another battletome release 😂Pretty sure everyone who complains that a book is bad before playing has never seen a top table in their life anyways, at the end of the day, this hobby is supposed to be fun, it's a game of toy soldiers at the end of the day yet I see more salt than any other hobby

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by JonnyTheKing

[Marrlfox]

Hi everyone. I have never played KO before but are looking at them for my next army since this book added the one thing I have been waiting for. Frigates as battleline. 

The list I was looking at was.

2 ironclads

3 frigates

Beyond that I'm not sure what hero I should run to support them. I have 230 points left to throw around but don't know which heroes support the skyvessels best. Any suggestions/advice would be appreciated. 🙂

(PS. I know it's not a competitive list I just really want to paint a bunch of the boats 😄)

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

3 hours ago, Entombet said:

And it cost 130p more than him.

Doesn’t matter, if he dies in one shooting phase that’s insane. If not ignore lol

for instance: a unit of 5 ardboys with double damage deals approx 10 wounds before saves. That would kill let’s say 10 plague rats, or 7 arkanauts, so approx. 60 to 80 points in one phase. If we have a unit that does that at range (so always strike first essentially) and with a far weaker buff kills 70 percent of its points cost in models all while being mobile as heck that’s super good!

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

2 hours ago, SireScott said:

I have to ask who is getting any serious amounts of units into combat with you in turn 1? You can deploy literally on the back line as you can deep strike. The one keeper of secrets with fly, run and charge can get there, perhaps a terrorgheist or dragon with the movement spell. In which case it's not unreasonable to screen your ships with arkanaughts and delete that one unit. In summary there are armies with a unit that can cross the board and charge turn 1 but which armies can do that with multiple units?

Beasts of chaos are one candidate. With the right set up (cogs, mostly chariots, ambush mechanic used to full effect) they can get half their army within 9 inches with rerollable charges with plus 2. With the bray shaman aura their infantry move 11 inches with cogs, followed by d6 plus 1 for running, and a 2d6 plus 2 charge roll. Meaning they have a minimum of 17 inch threat range. So in a perfect world where they roll average they would be galloping 24 inches up the board with average rolls!!! With chariots and Calvary this number could be even faster. 

So beasts of chaos are one candidate!

next is savage orruks, take the 8 inch move trait and mostly boar boyz. Boars will move 20 inches before charging with plus 2. So minimum 24 inch threat and average 29 inches. However they would be leaving half the army behind to do this but still, with large units you could easily get 1500 pts of models in combat turn 1

savage Orruk seems are looking good as well!

everyone else can get one unit or two in combat.  And a very specific sylvaneth build can also do the above tricks similarly, making them the third possible 1 turn combat scenario where you fight an entire army.

so so far 3 books I know of, however all of them pay for this mobility with one thing: lack of damage. All the factions above are less damaging then those to make up for easy charges. Savage orruks have no rend other then slower big stabbas, sylvaneth have choice units but a solid a whole they are less damaging (spirit of durthu being an obvious exception) and beasts have lots of rend 1 attacks and huge anvil units but both of these pump out less wounds per point then ard boyz so no need to be alarmed.

so with this it appears that mobile armies do less damage then slower ones as a intended design feature... hmmmm. Also we could live thru all these armies assaults with screening and proper deployment! Do they exist? Yes! Are they beatable? Very!

there may exist other first turn charge armies I’m not aware of, but these three are the only ones I know of that can do it nearly army wide

[GDD]

1 hour ago, Boar said:

I get 9 wounds against 4+ save with no rerolls. If thunderers reroll to wound roll from gold it`s 11,5

Well I tried my mathhammer and I got pretty much the same answer. The prospect of killing one so easily got me excited for running two Frigates, which will do the job -though at that point cost they damn well should.

[Stormrage89]

1 hour ago, JonnyTheKing said:

People complaining that a book is not top tier without playing them yet? Yep, it's another battletome release 😂Pretty sure everyone who complains that a book is bad before playing has ever seen a top table in their life anyways, at the end of the day, this hobby is supposed to be fun, it's a game of toy soldiers at the end of the day yet I see more salt than any other hobby

 

Ya, I agree with ya there.

I do understand the other side of it though. you invest a lot of time and money into an army you like and then the new rules turn out bad. That being said i really like  what i'm seeing so far. I'm looking forward to getting them on the board  when the book official comes out.

[Azamar]

1 hour ago, Marrlfox said:

Hi everyone. I have never played KO before but are looking at them for my next army since this book added the one thing I have been waiting for. Frigates as battleline. 

The list I was looking at was.

2 ironclads

3 frigates

Beyond that I'm not sure what hero I should run to support them. I have 230 points left to throw around but don't know which heroes support the skyvessels best. Any suggestions/advice would be appreciated. 🙂

(PS. I know it's not a competitive list I just really want to paint a bunch of the boats 😄)

An admiral would make sense, or a flavour of endrinmaster to keep them in the air. 
 

With that lot, can I also suggest a portable speaker, and an MP3 player with Ride of the Valkyries downloaded. 

[WatcherintheWater]

2 hours ago, Boar said:

I counted those, frigate f.ex. deals on average 4,44 against 4+ save

Yeah. 11% chance of one-shotting the Keeper with no aethergold. 30% if you get re-roll wounds on the Thunderers.

[plavski]

Remember not to sleep on Thundrik - re-roll's hits of 1 for a Skyfarers unit within 12" every turn for 140, and he's a hero so gets gold on top of his dudes and their shooting. He's Barak-Nar fixed though, but that shouldn't be too much of an issue. Just remember that he's more useful than Underworlds warbands normally are!

[stus67]

I'm torn between putting the cannon on the gunhauler or the drill. They both seems really good.

[readercolin]

2 hours ago, stus67 said:

I'm torn between putting the cannon on the gunhauler or the drill. They both seems really good.

Magnetize it.  Then you can easily swap between the two depending upon how you want to play today.

[Kramer]

3 minutes ago, Nick907 said:

I think the early double turn with this new book would be too strong, since we would just sit back and delete the strongest stuff without taking any damage back until the end of turn 2. This just means we will have to pick our targets more carefully and utilize repair functions (at least with my build)

endrinmaster with balloons, Ironclad, gunhauler, 5x Thunderers w/rifles, 30x Endrinriggers w/ranged weapons. 

Going second with a double turn wouldn’t be much fun for my opponent.

Who will you use for objective claiming? Looks like ab interesting list but light on bodies and heroes. If you can decimate you opponent early I could see this list struggling to get the points. 

[Kramer]

7 hours ago, Marrlfox said:

Hi everyone. I have never played KO before but are looking at them for my next army since this book added the one thing I have been waiting for. Frigates as battleline. 

The list I was looking at was.

2 ironclads

3 frigates

Beyond that I'm not sure what hero I should run to support them. I have 230 points left to throw around but don't know which heroes support the skyvessels best. Any suggestions/advice would be appreciated. 🙂

(PS. I know it's not a competitive list I just really want to paint a bunch of the boats 😄)

If you are not going for competitie I would squeeze in as much Heroes that repair ships as possible. Maybe even going two frigates and using the point for more endrinriggers 

[Just_Flo]

Or math it out. Or use the App Mathhammer for it.

[Phasteon]

8 hours ago, Marrlfox said:

Hi everyone. I have never played KO before but are looking at them for my next army since this book added the one thing I have been waiting for. Frigates as battleline. 

The list I was looking at was.

2 ironclads

3 frigates

Beyond that I'm not sure what hero I should run to support them. I have 230 points left to throw around but don't know which heroes support the skyvessels best. Any suggestions/advice would be appreciated. 🙂

(PS. I know it's not a competitive list I just really want to paint a bunch of the boats 😄)

Take the new Endrinmaster then, he is 220 and flat heals 3, and is a beast

[cofaxest]

8 hours ago, Boar said:

I counted those, frigate f.ex. deals on average 4,44 against 4+ save

Do you consider that 4+ became 5+? And the fact that thunderers could have rerolls 1s tohit and full towound rerolls and ships could have rerolls 1s tohit? Or even full reroll tohit?

[Nick907]

53 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Who will you use for objective claiming? Looks like ab interesting list but light on bodies and heroes. If you can decimate you opponent early I could see this list struggling to get the points. 

The 3 of my 30 endrinriggers with ranged weapons can float over to objectives after the group wipes out the threat.  I only have 1 hero though. 

[Hebroseph]

18 hours ago, Kramer said:

Nah, the only pity is they didn’t remove petrifax elite through our book  

I will say one thing, the only thing Petrifax is scared of is shooting, and the only thing worse than shooting is shooting with rend. This book almost directly counters PE's strongest advantage, +1 to save and rerolling saves in the COMBAT phase. 

Not saying that the new KO or DoT books are S tier crazy op, but I think its funny that both directly counter some of the stronger play styles of Slaanesh/OBR/FEC. All three want to be in your face and melee you to fight first/last/twice, or attrition  you down. None of them want to chase you around and get shot in the face with cannons or spells.  

Should be a fun mix up at bigger tournaments and I think that is healthy for the life of the game. 

[Nick907]

What is petrifax elite?  Why are they being brought up so often?

Edited January 6, 2020 by Nick907

[Hebroseph]

2 minutes ago, Nick907 said:

What is petrifax elite? 

It is one of the current "boogeymen" of the tournament meta. Its an Ossiarch bone reapers subfaction that gives the entire army +1 save. This turns their basic battleline troops into 3+ save models, who can then get buffed to have an additional rend and reroll ALL failed save rolls. It makes them particularly stubborn to remove, especially when you can resurrect the models through various means. 

[Nick907]

34 minutes ago, Hebroseph said:

It is one of the current "boogeymen" of the tournament meta. Its an Ossiarch bone reapers subfaction that gives the entire army +1 save. This turns their basic battleline troops into 3+ save models, who can then get buffed to have an additional rend and reroll ALL failed save rolls. It makes them particularly stubborn to remove, especially when you can resurrect the models through various means. 

Sounds like good shootin’ 

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Nick907 said:

The 3 of my 30 endrinriggers with ranged weapons can float over to objectives after the group wipes out the threat.  I only have 1 hero though. 

So basically the game plan is remove threat first turns, get the points late game. the list is very cool don’t get me wrong. Personally wouldn’t want to paint that many balloon boys   but would love to play against it. And the all in on endrinriggers vs some skywardens is for the heals I assume? 
 

1 hour ago, Nick907 said:

What is petrifax elite?  Why are they being brought up so often?

@Hebroseph got it absolutely right but part of the reason is also that the moment the petrifax elite rules where shown the whole internet went.... ‘you sure? That’s sounds OP’ and the internet turned out to be right for once. 
 

1 hour ago, Hebroseph said:

I will say one thing, the only thing Petrifax is scared of is shooting, and the only thing worse than shooting is shooting with rend. This book almost directly counters PE's strongest advantage, +1 to save and rerolling saves in the COMBAT phase. 

Not saying that the new KO or DoT books are S tier crazy op, but I think its funny that both directly counter some of the stronger play styles of Slaanesh/OBR/FEC. All three want to be in your face and melee you to fight first/last/twice, or attrition  you down. None of them want to chase you around and get shot in the face with cannons or spells.  

Should be a fun mix up at bigger tournaments and I think that is healthy for the life of the game. 

id say you would be right vs normal death but Ossiarch units are so self sustained it’s hard to dismantle them by taking out the key pieces. taking out heroes does limit their ‘command points’ though. So maybe that’s enough. 
but I’d definitely have to play them first with KO before making my full judgement. You could very well be spot on though. (Vs Slaanesh & FEC absolutely)

Edited January 6, 2020 by Kramer

[Rachmani]

Of the top of my head I‘m getting around 12 wounds for 10 thunderers with rifles (22 shots) and the D6+4 2 damage shots from the frigate against a 4+ save (modified to 5+ due to rend). 
No hit reroll, both reroll wound via aethergold.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Rachmani

[Boar]

2 hours ago, cofaxest said:

Do you consider that 4+ became 5+? And the fact that thunderers could have rerolls 1s tohit and full towound rerolls and ships could have rerolls 1s tohit? Or even full reroll tohit?

I took rend into account, additional reroll for thundererers (1s to hit) changed it slightly (counted it both myself in excel and with stathammer). With both ship and thunderers with reroll ones on hit, and reroll wounds from gold on rifles that`s 13,74 dmg.

But at this point it`s gold and 2 command points, Stathammer puts it around 50% of getting 14 or more damage

9 minutes ago, Rachmani said:

both reroll wound via aethergold.

you can only use one gold per phase for entire army

[Rachmani]

Oh, that I must have overread. 
 

That makes things worse. Or, more precisely amplifies the need to get a reroll from somewhere else - or simply put some more guns to aim at high profile targets.

Btw. Have we come to a verdict on special weapons vs. rifles on thunderers? If range is NOT that important I‘d expect 1 mortar, 2 of the others each to be roughly equal when boarded and simply better on the ground.

But 6 inches are 6 inches, and they could matter.