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WatcherintheWater

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WatcherintheWater last won the day on January 2

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About WatcherintheWater

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  1. @Auretious Taak Since Urbaz/Zilfin can take ships as battleline there is some the opportunity for some very silly lists. You can go really low model count: 4 model 1K Zilfin army: 3 Frigates, & Brokk or the Flying Endrinmaster 6 model 2K Zilfin army: 3 Frigates, 2 Ironclads, & the flying Endrinmaster Both those list would be bad, but I would definitely try and use them in a non-serious game if I had a couple more boats. If your opponent had a low model list, you could probably play a 2K game in about an hour!
  2. I've got a 1K 3 game tournament coming up next weekend. Been thinking about the list for a little: Barak Zon Admiral (+2 attack artifact) Gunhauler 2x10 Arkanauts 2x6 Skywardens (one unit w/ 1 skyhook and the rest built for combat) 3 Endrinriggers (built for shooting) Arkanauts screen in deployment, and then camp objectives. Admiral goes in the Gunhauler, which flies around shooting shrapnel, until there is an opening to use the 6" move bonus to charge into support characters or take on unsupported units and then fly away on the following turn. Either the Endrinriggers or a unit of Wardens goes with it. Wardens look for opportunistic charges. Feels like I'm a little light on shooting, since it's just the Gunhauler & Endrinriggers with any range, but you can't have it all at 1K points.
  3. 1K tournament in my local store in two weeks. I'm thinking of running Barak Zon. Here's what I'm leaning towards: Flying Endrinmaster Gunhauler 6 Skywardens w/ 1 Skyhook 6 Skywardens no special weapons That puts me at 770. What to you guys think might be a good use of those remaining 230 points? I was thinking of adding 10 Arkanauts to sit on an objective & 3 shooting focused Endrinriggers. Could also take 5 thunderers to drop in the Gunhauler.
  4. Hmm, yeah, maybe not something that would work. Probably too fragile. Honestly, I don't think there's anything in our book that can compare with Hearthguard Berserkers for damage output efficiency, except for maybe Barak Zon Skywardens on the charge. And the damage gap isn't quite as big as you might think. My quick math gets 18 damage vs a 4+ save from my example (including the ranged attacks) vs 24 for the Berserkers. And it's likely that you wouldn't get all 20 Berserkers in range. If only 15 Berserkers got to swing, damage output is about the same. That's comparing the buffed up Gunhauler & Heroes vs unbuffed Berserkers. And obviously the Berserkers are super tanky. Your gunhauler has retreat/fly high abilities, and can still shoot after or could heal itself. You definitely couldn't just throw it into combat and hope for the best, but for countercharging specific units or taking out isolated enemies before redeploying, I don't think it would be horrible as a monster hunter or something like that. Or take just the boat & Admiral, make your own skyport, and pick the command trait that gives the admiral double damage vs a specific enemy, and for under 300 points you have a mobile shooting unit that can become a pretty lethal assassin if the opportunity arises.
  5. One fun Idea that came to mind is using the Gunhauler with the 5 capacity artifact as a hero chariot. Put in an Admiral, and an Endrenmaster or two on board, and use the Repel Boarders command trait. In Barak Zon you can give the Khemist the +2 attack artifact and you have some decent shooting, and 11 2+/2+ attacks with rend -1 or -2 & 2 or d3 damage. Or if you did the make your own port, you could give the Admiral the double damage vs a specific enemy, and a +1 artifact, and choose the heroes re-roll 1s to hit vs enemy heroes and monsters. Probably not super competitive, and you are at risk of getting surrounded and losing 490 points, but would be fun and not horrible.
  6. Yeah. 11% chance of one-shotting the Keeper with no aethergold. 30% if you get re-roll wounds on the Thunderers.
  7. The Frigate and Gunhauler are much better, too. I actually think the Gunhauler might be the most efficient pick of the bunch. Here's a comparison of damage outputs for the ships & how many rend 1 wounds they can take. Not exactly a 1-1 comparison, since Gunhaulers can't cary marines, but they they can Fly High with Riggers/Wardens (I think), which is great. I think the first list I'm go for is a Skywarden heavy Barak Zon Escort Wing. I know some people are worried about power level, and I think that's fair. There is nothing in this book that can match the damage output of buffed up Riggers or 40 Arkanauts with Skyhooks from before. I think we've traded firepower for more durability & mobility. We will need to get some games in before we can really say whether this book is more or less powerful than before, but I think the rules are cooler & fit the fluff way better, so I'm happy.
  8. Yeah, it’s sort of silly, but I think that might be the best list 😬. Maybe you drop 6 wardens for another gunhauler and an extra hero...
  9. So can Wardens/Riggers hitch a ride on a gunhauler now? Seeks like yes. In that case a Barak Zon Escort Wing with some extra Wardens could be really good.
  10. This is going to completely change how we play. It will be fun to see how it turns out! At a really high level it seems like we've traded the hitting power of our dwarfs for more durability & more firepower from ships. Here are some list ideas that first spring to mind: Barak Zon - 2-3 units of Skywardens, Flying Endrinmaster general (give him the +2 attack artefact), a boat or two and some Arkanauts for sitting on objectives. Skywardens with a Skyhook and a re-roll can make the 9" charge 70% of the time, so you can even use the fly high and have a pretty good change of making it. Not as dependable as it was with the old Grapnels, though. Barak Zilfin - An Ironclad and a couple Frigates with a Lord Ordinator Plus some Thunderers, Arkanauts, & a couple heroes. Would be cool if you could fit in a second Ironclad, but probably not optimal. Barak Thryng - Gotrek & IDK what else 😁. First turn Arkanaut/Thunderer rush (Needs prosecute wars with all haste) - Load up 2 Frigates & an Ironclad with Arkanauts & Thunderers. I believe you can get off the ship after you move, so move up with the ships (run if needed), everybody hops out. With the run & 6" disembark you should be in range, so blast away. A little disappointed that you can't claim objectives with garrisoned units, and most can't shoot after flying high, but it probably would be a little too strong if you could.
  11. There are three parts of what I would think of as good rules: Rules that match the fluff - I think the rules for the units & skyports match the fluff pretty well right now. The boats don't, though. Biggest thing I want in the new book is rules that encourage 2K armies to have at least 2 or more boats. External balance (power level of this book vs others) - Think this is OK right now (under the 2019 GHB). KO seem like about an average army. 48.3% win rate in the HWG stats. I actually care the least about them getting this right in the new book, because it changes with every GHB. Internal balance (most units in the book are useful and there are a variety of good builds) - I think this is the biggest issue with the current book. Almost all the competitive builds are Zilfin, and focus on Khemists buffing Arkanauts & Endrinriggers (and sometimes Thunderers or Skywardens). There are a lot of Sky-Ports & units that are almost never used (Nar, Thryng, Gunhaulers, Endrinmaster). How to achieve those things is definitely a matter of opinion.
  12. I just played my 50th game of AOS with KO. It will probably be my last one before the new book comes out, so I wanted to take a look back at how the KO play style changed, and how well it did oveer the past 2 years. I started playing KO in full sized games in Jan 2018. Jan 2018 - June 2018 (GHB 2017) Games Played: 20 Win rate: 60% Usual List type: Barak Zilfin - 2 Frigates, with a big unit of Endrinriggers in one and a unit of combat Skywardens in the other. One ship deepstrikes & the other makes use of the Zilfin Hero Phase move. Thoughts: This was the most fun KO list I've run. Having two useful boats was really cool, and the Zilfin movement/redeploy/deepstrike abilities was great for playing objectives and keeping opponents guessing. Feels like this may have been the strongest we've been, and I probably could have won more games if I wasn't new to the army for part of this period. This period was also the first time I went to a 2-day tournament😀. June 2018 - Feb 2019 (GHB 2018) Games Played: 9 Win rate: 56% Most common list: Barak Zilfin - 1 Deepstriking frigate, with big unit of Endrinriggers and Skywardens. Usually an allied Knight Incantor. Thoughts: After the Mid-Year FAQ, it felt like there wasn't as much point in taking a second ship, unless you were running one of the Battalions. Also, in my local environment, magic was all over the place, so I felt like you needed an Incantor or some sort of way to dispel in the list. Feb 2019 - June 2019 (GHB 2018) Games Played: 13 Win rate: 38% Most common list: Barak Urbaz - Large unit of Arkanauts protected by 30 allied Dwarf Warriors, with units of Endrinriggers & Skywardens to counter charge. Thoughts: February 2019 was when some of the books that I thought were really strong started to come out (Skaven, FEC, Slaanesh), which is why I split the GHB 2019 season in half. I switched to a more shooting heavy list to try and counter some of the big monsters that were running around, but ended up with a pretty static list. This was the only period where I felt like there were some match-ups that depending on the scenario & opponent were close to un-winnable without getting a double turn or your opponent making a big mistake. June 2019 - Now (GHB 2019) Games Played: 8 Win rate: 88% Most common list: Barak Zilfin - Unit of 40 Arkanauts protected by 30 allied Longbeards plus a deepstriking Frigate with a big Endrinrigger unit. Thoughts: I didn't get as many games in as I wanted over the past few months, but I think KO were in a pretty strong place. The GHB 2019 points reductions definately helped, and I think KO were a pretty good match up against some of the top armies, but it felt like I was really relying on the 40 Arkanaut unit to do a lot of work. Overall thoughts: I've always had fun with the KO, even when they weren't at their strongest. I started a Nurgle army , and have enough Dispossessed to run a good Tempest Eye list, but always come back to the Overlords. I think the models are great, and they feel like a tactical army to play, where you really have to think about movement and target prioritization. My only complaint was that every competitive list I put together over the past 2 years was built around Khemists buffing big units of Endrinriggers & Arkanauts (& sometimes Skywardens), with the rest of the list designed to protect/deliver them. Good luck to all you Admirals in 2020!
  13. Even without a battalion, you can probably get down to 3 drops or so (unless they change the rules for deploying in skyvessals). The one downside that I see is that because flying high happens in the movement phase, and disembarking happens at the start of the hero phase (unless it changes too), you can't get out of the boats to do the Endrinrigger charge, and do risk getting surrounded on the following turn.
  14. Does anyone know if garrisoned units claim objectives? If they can, that makes the Fly High rule even better.
  15. That rule preview looks so great! Battleline Frigates Improved rules for embarked units Reasons to have more than one boat Incentives to take more units of 10 or so Potentially useful combat skywardens Basically everything I wanted, too!
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