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WatcherintheWater last won the day on January 2

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134 Celestant-Prime

About WatcherintheWater

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  1. Can you use the KO artifacts in a TE army? I always assumed that wasn't allowed, but I can't actually find it written down as a rule now.
  2. When I've used an Admiral in my KO armies, that +1 to hit hardly comes up. Even with the bonus, Arkanauts & the Ironclad boarding weapons aren't going to put out much damage. The Endrinmaster heal is great for keeping your Ironclad at a high enough wound total to use the Fly High and Dissengage, though. Navigator is more situational, but he can be really good too. Or if you had the point, the Endrinmaster in Dirigible suit backs a pretty good punch himself.
  3. The shooting attack for pistoliers and endrinriggers (assuming no special weapons) is almost the same. For 100 points you get: 5 Pistoliers with 2 shots each that are 4+/3+/-1/1 that can fire on the charge 3 Endrinriggers with 3 shots each that are 3+/4+/-1/1 that have 3" more range In close combat, the endrinriggers rend and d3 damage makes a pretty big difference though. 5 Pistoliers get a total of 22 attacks which average 2.3 damage vs something with a 4+ save 3 Endrinriggers get a total of 4 attacks which average 3.7 damage vs something with a 4+ save (50% more damage) Overall, if those same two units shot in the shooting phase, charge, and then do melee against a target with a 4+ save: Pistoliers average 6.7 damage (assuming no buffs or debuffs) Endrinriggers average 5.7 damage (assuming no buffs or debuffs) I think there are 3 scenarios where you could get some good use out of Endrinriggers over Pistoliers: Countercharging over a screen of infantry (since they can fly) In range of the +1 attack spell (they are the perfect target since they have only 1 attack base, but it's a really good attack) As a mobile shooting platform teleporting around with a Gunhauler and maybe a Flying Endrinmaster w/Hawk Eye (if the rest of your army is slow or not ranged). Might be good to give them the special weapons there.
  4. Well done! What is the Khemist's role? Is he just a extra hero for scenarios that can go in the Gunhauler and use the Anatomiser at some point?
  5. Yes. Garrisoning a Frigate or Ironclad is the same as garrisoning terrain. From the core rules "The range and visibility to or from a garrisoning unit is determined to or from the terrain feature instead. A garrisoning model can attack and be attacked, cast or unbind spells, and use abilities, but cannot move." And from the Frigate/Ironclad warscroll" This model can fly, and can be garrisoned by up to 25 (or 15) friendly Marine models even though it is not a terrain feature" I think it could be pretty good, but just the ships by themselves don't really have a ton of firepower for their points, so you probably want to throw a few Thunderers on board too or have some Endrinriggers to hitch along. Requires you to have 12 total units in your army, but I think it could be fun.
  6. Yeah, the Khemist buff in the old KO book was nasty. That's basically what I was trying to replicate. The problem is you probably have less than a 50% chance of getting the spell off, given the casting value and chance of a dispel.
  7. How do you abuse the ventplates? Is because the artefact doesn't say "until the next..."
  8. Pretty happy with those changes. I've also been thinking about what would be the best way to incorporate KO into at TE list. A couple options, I see that could be fun and decent: Combat/ fast option - 9 Endrinriggers w/ combat weapons & some caster on a flying monster, who tries to cast the +1 attack spell. Probably the Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon is the best option. +1 attack makes the Endrinriggers a nasty unit, and if you give the Arcanum Swift as the Wind, and Zephyrite Banner, they are pretty threatning on turn 1, even with 24" deployment. The Arcanum could cast mystic shield on himself, for a 2+ save re-rolling 1's to be pretty tank too. Downside is that with no bonuses to cast, it's probably 50/50 that you get the +1 attack spell to go off. Shooting/teleporting option - Gunhauler, Endrinmaster w/ Dirigible Suit (& Hawk Eye), and 6 Endrinriggers w/ shooting weapons. For 520 points, you get a group of 8 models that can teleport around the board and put out some good shooting and have profiles that are well suited to take advantage of Hawk Eye (guns that naturally wound on 4s and 3s). Could be a good addition to list that are mostly footslogging, but does require you to have 12 total units. Defensive/cheap option - Arkanauts are cheap 4+ save battleline. 20 or 30 could be good for bubble wrapping. They are basically freeguild guard that cost 1pt/model more but has a 2 shot pistol. Anyone have success with any other KO/TE synergies?
  9. I've been trying to put together a reasonably competitive list using mostly dwarf models & Gotrek. What do people think of this list? Freeguild General w/ Hawk Eye Runelord - Adjutant Gotrek 3x10 Freeguild Handgunners (will just use Dwarf Thunderer models) 30 Longbeards 30 Hammerers Grundstock Gunhauler 6 Endrinriggers (shooting loadout) Idea would be for the KO units to teleport around shooting at high value targets, or they could stay near the General to get his buff. Handgunners hold back objectives and shoot at enemy mid board units. Longbeards try to push up and swarm mid board objectives, while the Hammerers (supported by the RL) and Gotrek probably split up and look for something to fight. Positives are that there are a lot of decently durable bodies, good damage output and some range. Big downside is that aside from the KO it's very slow. Because it's also high drop count, if it goes against an opponent that can get multiple turn 1 charges, you could easily spend the first couple turns pinned in your own deployment zone. Maybe one improvement would be to swap out the Longbeards for a unit of pistoliers/outriders, a Knight-Azyros, & a Gyrocopter. Adds a lot of speed, but loses the dwarf theme some.
  10. @FyrennBoth of those options look good! I think the attack stacking combo on the pirates seems fun, and if they are in hurricanium range, they could do some pretty serious damage. Also, whatever you choose to do with the extra points would probably be more useful than the Greatswords. I think it's tough to get 10 man infantry units with no range to do much more than sit on objectives. The Free Guild option would be good too, but I would expect the guard to be all that much more survivable than the pirates. Personally I'd pick handgunners or crossbows instead. I think they are still battleline, and the stand and shoot ability is really fantastic. It wouldn't be that hard to get them to hitting and wounding both on 2's. One sort of general thing, though. If you like the Pirate theme, it may just be worth it to go with them. We will probably get a new General's Handbook some time in the next year or so, and when the points change, there is no guarantee that what is good now will still be then. Especially if you're in a just for fun environment. Pirates converted with Lizardmen shields does sound cool though!
  11. @FyrennI'm not as familiar with the dark elf side of things, but here are my thoughts: If you have an infantry general, I think it's worth the points to get an adjunct. Something like a battlemage might be more useful than the fleetmaster though. they have some pretty useful buff spells on their warscroll. However, an infantry here probably isn't the best Hawk Eye buffer for the Ironclad. They are really going to slow you down. Even a flying non-KO general will get left behind with the ship teleports (which is an awesome ability), though. If you want to put a KO general on the Ironclad, I'd either pick an Aether-Khemist (because he's cheap), or the Flying Endrinmaster (he's pretty good in combat & can shoot some). I like Grundstock Thunderers more than the Arkanauts to man an Ironclad. They have a lot more range, and can shoot even if the Ironclad teleports. If you go plan to use the teleport, they will do a lot more work. A teleporting Ironclad with 10 Thunderers is pretty dangerous even without the Hawk-Eye buff.
  12. @BelimanI ran a really similar list last night. First 2K game with the new book. Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit w/+2 Attack artifact Navigator w/automatic dispel 30 Arkanauts w/Skyhooks & Volley Guns 6 Skywardens w/2 Grapnel Launchers & 2 Rotary Guns 12 Skywardens w/1 Grapnel Launcher 2 Gunhaulers w/Sky Cannons & Collapsible Compartments & Spar Torpedo Frigate w/ Skycannon 5 Thunderers w/Rifles Escort Wing My Opponent ran an Ogors list with a 2 Stonehorns, a big unit each of Gluttons & Ironguts, a wizard, and a couple small units of Leadbealchers as well as some battalion that let him out-drop me. We played Shifting Objectives. It was a really close fun game with 3 double turns, and basically came down to the turn 5 priority roll, but I lost by one VP. I think the list was decent, but not the best. The Arkanaut screen feels pretty crucial against fast combat armies. They scored objectives on the first half round 1 & held up to 2 Stonehorn charges & combat for a turn and a half. I'd love to get them up to 40. I'm not sure about the big Skywarden unit. They definitely underperformed in this game. They got one chance to fight, charging 2 remaining Ironguts, and only did 5 wounds. He was in cover and rolled great for his saves, so you can chalk some of that up to randomness. I'd consider splitting them in two and either using them as more tactical strikers or loading them up for shooting. The fly high rule is fantastic. I feel like it makes the army very strategic to play, and is great for grabbing uncontested objectives. When you have 6 guys to hitch along, it gets even better, since you can actually get a few bodies in. Had I kept my unit of wardens near a Gunhauler throughout the game, I could have taken the last objective I needed to win. That makes me lean more towards shooty units of Wardens, in which case I would probably swith to Urbaz.
  13. I think the two main benefits your 1 in 4 Duardin units recieve are Chronicle of Grudges (Pick 3 units and all friendly Thryng units re-roll 1s against them), and Honor the Gods, Just in case (once per battle in any phase hit rolls of 6 by one Thryng unit score two hits). Nothing too groundbreaking, but those are what you would want to maximize, and they are mostly focused on damage output rather than durability or movement. Here are some good options I see: Gyrocopters - Solid unit for clearing hordes, and can make good use of re-rolling 1s to hit (whereas the bomber is mostly focused on the mortal wounds) 30 Hammerers - Big hitty unit that can put out a bunch of damage, goes well with a Runesmith for some buffs and dispelling Irondrakes - would go well with a Khemist that has the Soulscream Bridge in a bottle, so they can teleport into range and fire twice (teleport doesn't count as a move) Runesmiter deepstriking with some Hearthguard Berserkers - rerolling those 1s gives you more chances for mortal wounds Gotrek - Just because he's cool Also, if you want to get more eyes on this you might consider posting in the main KO thread. It's been really active since the new book launched.
  14. @Auretious Taak Since Urbaz/Zilfin can take ships as battleline there is some the opportunity for some very silly lists. You can go really low model count: 4 model 1K Zilfin army: 3 Frigates, & Brokk or the Flying Endrinmaster 6 model 2K Zilfin army: 3 Frigates, 2 Ironclads, & the flying Endrinmaster Both those list would be bad, but I would definitely try and use them in a non-serious game if I had a couple more boats. If your opponent had a low model list, you could probably play a 2K game in about an hour!
  15. Without the Khemist buff, most KO infantry feels duplicative to other infantry options: Arkanauts are pretty similar to Bleakswords or Freeguild guard. Cheap battleline that won't do too much damage. A little less combat traded for the 9" pistols. Endrinriggers/Skywardens are pretty similar to Outriders/Pistoliers. If you build them with all the shooting options, you can have a good mobile ranged unit though. Thunderers are basically more expensive Irondrakes with an extra wound. If you want to use KO in a TE list, one potential option is to take an Ironclad and just drop it as far forward and fire away on turn 1. Then your opponent has to deal with an 18 wound model that has a 2+ save on turn 1. Very tough for an army without much rend or mortal wounds. Would be even better if you could get an arcane shield on it. A frigate or ironclad with a KO general hero gives you a pretty fast & durable Hawk-Eye general that can keep up with mobile units. Can put out some decent shooting of it's own too.
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