AoS 2 - Fyreslayers Discussion

[EchoHavoc]

59 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I think he is talking about 3d edition and not 3 round tournaments.

This is correct. I was indeed talking about 3rd edition age of Sigmar.

[EchoHavoc]

30 minutes ago, Doko said:

In real life 0, in tts around 15 games of these maybe 5 were fyreslayers.

In short ranged armys kite us(redeploy must be faqed because with a army of 4" move is imposible play to the mouse with units going away from you a d6) or delete us betwen regular shooting and overwatch(played against myself and a overwatch of 30 irondrakes with runelord,hurricanum and a +1 wound of tempest eye deleted almost 10 of my 15 buffed hearthguards) 

Melle armys were more playable,but vampires blood knigths mince us and graveguard too if we dont play hermdar for attack first. And others as ironjawz with the bigg wwag and support also delete us if we dont attack first and maw krusha can kill he alone 3 magmadroths

My advice would be play some games of 3rd edition. Use a variety of lists. Play against different armies. Then come back and give your feedback. 
 

Saying that the army is terrible without playing games with them in the new edition is baseless. Your opinion will also carry more weight once you’ve played a decent number of games.

Edited June 24, 2021 by EchoHavoc
Spelling

[Doko]

15 minutes ago, EchoHavoc said:

My advice would be play some games of 3rd edition. Use a variety of lists. Play against different armies. Then come back and give your feedback. 

Hnnnn i just say how i have pkayed 15 games in 3 edittion and against many diferent armys. Did u read my post?lol

[Beliman]

45 minutes ago, Doko said:

In short ranged armys kite us(redeploy must be faqed because with a army of 4" move is imposible play to the mouse with units going away from you a d6) or delete us betwen regular shooting and overwatch(played against myself and a overwatch of 30 irondrakes with runelord,hurricanum and a +1 wound of tempest eye deleted almost 10 of my 15 buffed hearthguards) 

I'm not a fyreslayer specialist, but throwing a run+charge (with some movement shenanigans) 10man vulkite unit before going all in with HGB seems a lot better with Unleash Hell up and one unit completely buffed near Runelord+Hurricanum.

Remember that your comparison is 810 points vs 375points. Not sure if it's fair.

[Doko]

How is 810? It isnt even 600 with irondrakes and runelord,if you are adding the hurricanum who is giving his aura to others units and also casting magic then we can also add the runesmitter to the hearthguard,and the battlesmith and the runefather who is the general and need be close to buff.so it is then almost 800 points of fyreslayers also

And hes of course its posible use a cheaper unit so the rival spend his cp,but fyreslayer havent many spare units,vulkites usually are getting objetives and cant be close to hearthguards.

Also run+charge is only with one alegiance that isnt the most used(or a prayer that with 3.0 never gonna be casted as we only can chant one)

Also this isnt tau overwatch,enemy can overwatch even if we are at 9" from the ranged unit,so if enemy know play gonna use screen,so if you charge with the vulkites to his screen(ironbreakers buffed by the same hurricanum and +1 attack of warden king) he only wont active the cp with his irondrake and use it when you charge with the hg,meanwhile the vulkites gonna be deleted by the buffed ironbreakers and hg gonna be deleted in that overwatch or next shooting phase if you dont charge.

Trust me there are better armys that dwarfs of citys,but i used this example because it is my other army.

In 2.0 was a even match my dwarf city vs my fyreslayers and the winner usually was chosen by the battleplan that we got or the doubleturn but in 3.0 is a imposible match for fyreslayers and the new cp have done that even doubleturn dont matter in a full melle vs melle+rangued army

Edited June 24, 2021 by Doko

[EchoHavoc]

10 hours ago, Doko said:

Hnnnn i just say how i have pkayed 15 games in 3 edittion and against many diferent armys. Did u read my post?lol

What I asked was how many games of 3rd edition have you played with fyreslayers. You said you’d played 15 games on TTS *maybe* 5 were with fyreslayers. Did you not read my post? 
TTS is an okay substitute for the real game but when a new edition has just come out you can’t beat actually playing the game in person. 
in my opinion with everything you have said my above post still stands. You need to get more play time in with the army. 5 games on TTS is not enough for you to come on here and rant about how bad the army is.

[Doko]

Up to you. As i said before i have 4 armys and i dont mind dont play ny fyreslayers untill they get his tome and fix them.

But hurts the eye see people  says how good is tha we are nerfed.

It is how see the sylvaneth post and see people saying how great is that they are nerfed.

Fyresayers are one of tye botton armys in aos3, some of you are happy with this,i am not,so easy as that

Edited June 25, 2021 by Doko

[Beliman]

17 minutes ago, Doko said:

Fyresayers are one of tye botton armys in aos3, some of you are happy with this,i am not,so easy as that

Sorry, but I will wait to see and play more games/tournaments before start talking about meta and tiers. 

[Gaz Taylor]

+++ Mod Hat On +++
Just a nudge @Doko but we still haven’t seen the FAQs yet and playing games for some people are a bit limited. AOS3 is almost a totally new game now so rather the naysaying, can we be constructive with why you think Fyreslayers may struggle now? That’s a million times better than saying “They are bad” and makes things a better experience for other forum members. Remember negative comments are fine if they are constructive because it creates a discussion. Alternatively, it just looks like you are moaning which isn’t nice to read

[Doko]

Ok i gonna try only state the situation as i see after some games

 

-our good points have been nerfed or have been deleted

-our bad points have been increased

So good points that we had:

-in vorstag we had a very good first turn move but now that enemy can redeploy d6 on his key unit we have lost here

-we were VERY sturdy with a global +2 saves(battlesmith and runesmitter)and one unit +3 with prayer of ash,but now only we can get a +1

-our melle damage was top  with attack twice but we lost it,so now we have half damage in melle

Bad points:

-we hadnt mages,so we couldnt cancel magic but we had priests with two prayers,now it is only one prayer so half prayers

-we were bad in heroes being sniped but now with the cap in +1 save we are even so much more weakers

-we had problems against shooting armys and screens,but with double attack and pile in we could do something,now we havent attack twice neither pile in 2 times so we cant do nothing against screens and unleash hell only do this worse.

-our behemots were bad,and this edition gives extra points for killing monsters,so if we bring our weaks magma we are giving extra points to the rival

 

Maybe i was too much negative in my others posts,but this is how i see it,if anyone can help me to see some good point of the next edition where we gonna compete i would be happy to know it and try it in some games

[Baron Klatz]

18 hours ago, EchoHavoc said:

You need to get more play time in with the army. 5 games on TTS is not enough for you to come on here and rant about how bad the army is.

Reminds me of when Sons of Behemat landed. Saw two posts back-to-back on the discord of one guy losing his 5 games in a row while the other Mega-gargants player won his 5 games. AoS just has too many crazy factors in an average game (Scenery effects, Endless Spells, Double turn, etc) to get a concise result like that.

That all aside, kinda tempted to run Hyshian Fyreslayers with the Arcane tome and dual-cast prism & fyre wall spells both for a laugh and to mess with shooters while my heavy troops march in to give them a taste of fyresteel & aetherquartz blades.

[PJetski]

First impressions of Fyreslayers from my game today:

Unleash Hell with a Runeson on Magmadroth followed by Stomp is great fun. It's even better if a MONSTER charged you and you also hit them with your javelin for D3+2 damage.

Lofnir tunneling in 15 Auric Hearthguard with either the Lofnir command ability or All-Out Attack and the rune to reroll hit1 is still really good, but it's incredible in a MONSTER meta.

10man squads of Hearthguard Berzerkers are definitely worth their 250 points, even without double fight or fight first. They're still effectively 40 wounds and usually on a 4+ save, and their damage output is good enough that they can't just be ignored. I could definitely imagine myself using a 15man unit with a Lifeswarm and Rally bringing them back

Speaking of magic, Arcane Tome is spectacular. Give it to a Magmadroth to add Arcane Bolt into your charge/countercharge combo, or cast Flaming Weapon on your Claws & Horns to pump up their damage. Turn a foot HERO into a MONSTER to help score Battle Tactics or just count as 5 models on an objective. Greyfyrd can bring so many Arcane Tomes it might as well be known as the WIZARD lodge from now on.

Edited June 26, 2021 by PJetski

[Bonesplitterz]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

First impressions of Fyreslayers from my game today:

Unleash Hell with a Runeson on Magmadroth followed by Stomp is great fun. It's even better if a MONSTER charged you and you also hit them with your javelin for D3+2 damage.

Lofnir tunneling in 15 Auric Hearthguard with either the Lofnir command ability or All-Out Attack and the rune to reroll hit1 is still really good, but it's incredible in a MONSTER meta.

10man squads of Hearthguard Berzerkers are definitely worth their 250 points, even without double fight or fight first. They're still effectively 40 wounds and usually on a 4+ save, and their damage output is good enough that they can't just be ignored. I could definitely imagine myself using a 15man unit with a Lifeswarm and Rally bringing them back

Speaking of magic, Arcane Tome is spectacular. Give it to a Magmadroth to add Arcane Bolt into your charge/countercharge combo, or cast Flaming Weapon on your Claws & Horns to pump up their damage. Turn a foot HERO into a MONSTER to help score Battle Tactics or just count as 5 models on an objective. Greyfyrd can bring so many Arcane Tomes it might as well be known as the WIZARD lodge from now on.

Thanks you for this post, it really cool to finally have some positive input! 👍🏻

[Nadure]

Hmmm. The runesmiter on droth is looking interesting as a priest hero monster wizard. With a priest command trait could be the way to get curse off on key targets.

[Clan's Cynic]

FAQ's up. 

• Molten Infusion's gone.
• Prayers now require line of sight from the Priest to the target.
• Runic Empowerment (Runesmiter) is now +1 to wound rolls instead of rerolling wound rolls.
• Battlesmith's Icon of Grimnir (+1 to save rolls) can only affect one unit.
• Doomseeker's Throwing Axe now has a range of 8".
• Hermdar's Command Ability's reworded to be a standard "strike first" wording.
   
• Runic Fyrewall - Lost it's line-of-sight blocking. It now gives a 5+ Ward Save (4+ if you roll a 6) instead of rerolling saves of 1. Went up 20pts.
• Flame-Spitter - Looks unchanged. It's points didn't go up so that's probably a net buff when most other Invocations/Endless Spells in the game did.
• Molten Infernoth - Went up to a 4 to cast (previously 3). Lost it's Bravery buff. If you roll a double for determing movement, the 6's you roll to score a Mortal become D3 but you remove him at the end of the phase. Seems waaay too unpredictable to say it went up 25pts for this dubious change and it just makes me even less likely to run the Infernoth, which was already the worst Invocation.
   
• Magic Battleforge - Spending The Forge is now a 6+ Ward Save instead of rerolling saves of 1. You can now use the +1 to Prayers and Spend The Forge in the same turn.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Clan's Cynic

[Doko]

Btw i just read better the changes and battlesmith can yet buff more than one unit.

But now only can be used one time per unit per phase,so i dont see any change and seems only a change in as it is written

It dont says nothing about only one time per phase,it says one time per unit

Maybe now we have +1 save against first shooting or melle and then we havent nothing if other shooting or melle attack us in the same phase?

Edited July 2, 2021 by Doko

[Azamar]

1 hour ago, Doko said:

Btw i just read better the changes and battlesmith can yet buff more than one unit.

But now only can be used one time per unit per phase,so i dont see any change and seems only a change in as it is written

It dont says nothing about only one time per phase,it says one time per unit

Maybe now we have +1 save against first shooting or melle and then we havent nothing if other shooting or melle attack us in the same phase?

Isn’t the wording the same as the previous faq, just carried over? It’s how the rule is worded on the AOS app.  It literally just means it can’t stack (I.e if you had 2 battlesmiths, a unit can’t get +1 save from both of them). 

It’s a shame the firewall doesn’t block LOS anymore, but that 6+ ward (with a small chance for a 4+) is tasty. 20 hermdar vulkites next to an objective with a firewall in range is going to be difficult to shift.

 

edit: snapshot from current rule wording off app added

Edited July 2, 2021 by Azamar

[Oldhat]

Hermdar Lodge

Triumph - Bloodthirsty

Warlord (+1 Enhancement, +1 CP once)
Auric Runefather on Magmadroth 285
- Coal-heart Ancient
- Tyrantslayer
- Warrior Indominate
Auric Runesmiter 120
Battlesmith 125
(5) Auric HG 125

Battle Regiment
Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth 275
(10) HGB w/ Poles 250
(10) HGB w/ Poles 250
(10) HGB w/ Axe 250
(20) Vulkite Berserkers 320
- Horn, Pick & Shield

Magmic Battleforge 0

2000

For Grand Strategies, I'll likely opt for Hold he Line & Dominating Presence. 

For Battle Tactics, I'm thinking the Runesmiter + Berserkers for Aggressive Expansion via Tunnel & Savage Spearhead too potentially. 
Monstrous Takeover for Droths. 

Debating on Nulsidian as the extra enhancement for running the Warlord battalion... or perhaps Salamander Cloak for the Droth Smiter. 

The idea with the 20 dudes is to make it an unmovable brick. But is that too many? It is points I could put into more AHG. 

I'm so new and there's so much to consider it's making this all a bit daunting. So excuse any errors or misunderstood concepts. Trying to get my bearings!

Also, an aside, I'm not sure Hermdar is my final choice. Vostarg have a solid bit of movement options and that also lends to Ferocious Advance, I think. Just a random thought.

[Doko]

0 reasons to use vulkites before hesrthguard.

Cost 45 more points and have the same effective health pool(10 wounds with 4++ is the same than 20 wounds)

Have worse damage even being so much expensiver,and the worst,have only 1" with 32 base so they never gonna can atack with the new coherency.

Really new edition have done even bigger the gap betwen hearthguard and vulkites.

Oh and also shields are useless now because it is a +1 save and not a fixed save4 so dont stack with battlesmith.

I use two units of vulkites,but its for money reasons,i got them with the start collecting so i use them in place of spend  100+€ in extra hearthguards but if i wouldnt have money problems i never would bring one vulkite in any game as heqrthguards are better in every regard and cost less,0 sense

[Oldhat]

Zerks are 16ppm. HGB are 25ppm. 

As for the +1 that's fine because my plan was to go tunnelling with the foot Smiter and not necessarily be tethered to the Bsmith anyhow. 

I do concede the coherency rule really hurts a unit of 20, but they'll be tough to shift with so many bodies... In theory.

[angrycontra]

8 hours ago, Doko said:

0 reasons to use vulkites before hesrthguard.

Cost 45 more points and have the same effective health pool(10 wounds with 4++ is the same than 20 wounds)

Have worse damage even being so much expensiver,and the worst,have only 1" with 32 base so they never gonna can atack with the new coherency.

Really new edition have done even bigger the gap betwen hearthguard and vulkites.

Oh and also shields are useless now because it is a +1 save and not a fixed save4 so dont stack with battlesmith.

I use two units of vulkites,but its for money reasons,i got them with the start collecting so i use them in place of spend  100+€ in extra hearthguards but if i wouldnt have money problems i never would bring one vulkite in any game as heqrthguards are better in every regard and cost less,0 sense

There are reasons to take vulkites over hgb. While it's true that coherency hurts them and it's also true they cost more (35 p more though, if you're gonna whine and cry, at least get your facts right), they have following benefits over hgb:

1) Bigger unit size. More bodies hold more objectives. Sure you can argue that durability wise both units are the same 10 w with 4++ vs 20 w (which they are) but having twice as many bodies is still much better at holding objectives. If unit of 10 vulkites take 5 casualties while 5 hgb take 1 casualty, that unit of vulkites still hold that objective better than hgb.

2) More independent. Hgb always need babysitter. They only have 6++ without hero nearby and in meta where heroes can die pretty easily, that isn't as useful to spam as unit of vulkites is.

3) Fight after death. This simple ability is so often overlooked, but it's extremely useful. If a unit charges a unit of 5 hgb and does 20 w, that unit is dead, end of story. If it attacks 10 vulkites, they all get to attack back (and since vulkites are removed 1 by 1, that means that coherency shouldn't matter as you pile in and remove them from the sides).

4) Better screens. More bodies, better screens, plus the ability to fight after dead is good for screening unit.

5) +1 to charge. Simple buff they get but it makes them a lot more reliable tunneling unit.

But seriously though, can you please just stop with the constant complaining. I know fyreslayers got hurt, I'm not blind to their changes. But you or anyone else for that matter, have not played enough games with them to truly determine their place in meta. A lot of players here are trying to make the best out of these changes and trying different new stuff, complaining for the sake of it is utterly useless.

[Warboss Gorbolg]

Crucial question: Why does the Runeson get a mini-axe? I get that they have to prove themselves to get the mega-key one, but the Runeson axe is even duardined (dwarfed😜) by the vulkites’ axes, and they often wield two!

What have some of you replaced it with?  A vulkite one is an obvious option but was interested in some other ideas as well.

[King Under the Mountain]

Joining a Path of Glory Campaign that starts next month.  Was going to play my Kharadron but decided to dust out my Fyreslayers since I haven't played with them in well over a year.  I'll have to report back as it goes on. 

[Clan's Cynic]

On 7/4/2021 at 6:57 PM, Warboss Gorbolg said:

Crucial question: Why does the Runeson get a mini-axe? I get that they have to prove themselves to get the mega-key one, but the Runeson axe is even duardined (dwarfed😜) by the vulkites’ axes, and they often wield two!

What have some of you replaced it with?  A vulkite one is an obvious option but was interested in some other ideas as well.

They're meant to be throwing axes I believe. The Vulkites have similar sized ones on their belts.

Problem is they didn't model his... actual axe.

[Warboss Gorbolg]

1 hour ago, Clan's Cynic said:

They're meant to be throwing axes I believe. The Vulkites have similar sized ones on their belts.

Problem is they didn't model his... actual axe.

Perhaps you are correct. I assumed that the one held at the waste was supposed to be the ancestral waraxe.

Just got a magmadroth and box of hearthguard. Going to start with the Runeson adventuring with his War Cry warband and then expanding to Path of Glory if I'm enjoying it, culminating in the promotion to Runefather and full army if I can stay motivated.