PJetski Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 30 minutes ago, Turragor said: I feel roughly the same with Starcast, luckily Im kind of excited for 40k and will fix an army there over the next few months. By the time that's done I think there'll be news on the SC front tbh. I think grasping at synergies that are shadows of the 2020 tomes offerings, and crunching points cost reduced numbers is just, kind of, standard at the end of a tome cycle. They could make 3x5 libs free and I think the meta would still be a challenging jungle. I agree - the issue is the rules and not the point costs. 10 points off each unit across the board doesnt do much when your melee bounces off walls. I hope they'll look at my Battletome revamp project when writing the next Stormcast battletome 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 the new points changes are really making me want to buy a box of Judis... I might do so just because I love the models so much, but darn if this wasn't sad to read through even without the full Lumineth/Seraphon rules context Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 9 hours ago, PJetski said: I hope they'll look at my Battletome revamp project when writing the next Stormcast battletome This but without humility / jokey emoji. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagittarii Orientalis Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 2 hours ago, CommissarRotke said: the new points changes are really making me want to buy a box of Judis... I might do so just because I love the models so much, but darn if this wasn't sad to read through even without the full Lumineth/Seraphon rules context Well, I just bought the ebook version of this year's handbook. I won't be buying anymore stormcast until the new battletome comes out. No need to boost their sales now. And sadly, Total Commitment remains as same as before. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 22 minutes ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said: And sadly, Total Commitment remains as same as before. sigh! (I so much hate to play Total Commitment vs Changehost or Starborne: since the distance between the two armies was not huge already, you don't get your one time deepstrike, but they get teleport every turn) I must say, I am not overjoyed by what I am seeing coming out of the new battleplans so far 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 3 hours ago, CommissarRotke said: the new points changes are really making me want to buy a box of Judis... I might do so just because I love the models so much, but darn if this wasn't sad to read through even without the full Lumineth/Seraphon rules context Buy them second handed somewhere, but don't reward GW with your money, they don't deserve it right now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubyandwells Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Marcvs said: sigh! (I so much hate to play Total Commitment vs Changehost or Starborne: since the distance between the two armies was not huge already, you don't get your one time deepstrike, but they get teleport every turn) I must say, I am not overjoyed by what I am seeing coming out of the new battleplans so far Apart from Total Commitment, what are your concerns with the battleplans? A Better Part of Valour could be challenging re only Battleline can score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 1 minute ago, scrubyandwells said: Apart from Total Commitment, what are your concerns with the battleplans? A Better Part of Valour could be challenging re only Battleline can score. yep, that's it, I also see people talking of other battleplans which reward having your leaders or behemots -which is cool for Starcast build, but for other SCE builds not so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 If there's going to be a battleplan that prohibits deep strike there should be a battleplan that prohibits summoning. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) You know what ? I think if the anvil of apotheosis is allowed in matched play, that will help us level the field. There are some really powerful combos out there, way stronger than the crappy heroes we have. Edited July 11, 2020 by Maturin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) Some created heroes are more expensive than their official equivalents though but I'm pretty sure this guy could be of use in a shooty list. He's worth 100 points : Edited July 11, 2020 by Maturin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Maturin said: Some created heroes are more expensive than their official equivalents though but I'm pretty sure this guy could be of use in a shooty list. He's worth 100 points : Problem is that spell is better than almost any in our lore So internally he's debatably more than 100 pts. Even if the same stats and spell for other armies would make him a laughable choice. Edited July 11, 2020 by Turragor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeElectrid Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Welp, after all that excitement over points drops, GHB20 kicks SCE in the balls with the battleplan changes. * Total Commitment is still, inexplicably, a thing. You know, just in case you wanted to build an army that actually uses the SCE alliegance ability. * Bonus points or objective requirements for battleline units. Yes, GW seriously expects you to defeat Mortek Guard, Vanari Wardens, Witch Aelves, etc, in melee with Liberators and (now more expensive!) Sequitors. Lol * Bonus points for leaders. You know, those 5 wound support heroes who can’t fight their way out of a paper bag and drop dead at the sight of Crawlers and Sentinels. * Bonus points for Monsters/Behemoths, all 4 of them of which only one is barely playable. Meta for 2020-21: does your book have good battleline? Do you have good leaders (preferably tanky or which are monsters)? Can you spam good/cheap monsters? Then you’re good! 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicy Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 38 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said: Welp, after all that excitement over points drops, GHB20 kicks SCE in the balls with the battleplan changes. * Total Commitment is still, inexplicably, a thing. You know, just in case you wanted to build an army that actually uses the SCE alliegance ability. * Bonus points or objective requirements for battleline units. Yes, GW seriously expects you to defeat Mortek Guard, Vanari Wardens, Witch Aelves, etc, in melee with Liberators and (now more expensive!) Sequitors. Lol * Bonus points for leaders. You know, those 5 wound support heroes who can’t fight their way out of a paper bag and drop dead at the sight of Crawlers and Sentinels. * Bonus points for Monsters/Behemoths, all 4 of them of which only one is barely playable. Meta for 2020-21: does your book have good battleline? Do you have good leaders (preferably tanky or which are monsters)? Can you spam good/cheap monsters? Then you’re good! I just came online today to write this down. Thanks u beat me 2 it. Damn its going to be tough to get 3-2 with these new battleplans i ques 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Turragor said: Problem is that spell is better than almost any in our lore So internally he's debatably more than 100 pts. Even if the same stats and spell for other armies would make him a laughable choice. Do you like this one better ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Man this thread is super salty. I get that we're no longer the top dogs but you'd think GW was burning our books on camera by the reactions here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubyandwells Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, Requizen said: Man this thread is super salty. I get that we're no longer the top dogs but you'd think GW was burning our books on camera by the reactions here. From a “Every faction should be in the 45%-55% fat middle” ecosystem POV, personally love the point changes. We got 5%-10% back on lists, which has opened up quite a few different builds, as long as your requirement is “3-2 pushing for 4-1,” not “4-1 pushing for 5-0.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freejack02 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 On 7/11/2020 at 4:44 PM, scrubyandwells said: From a “Every faction should be in the 45%-55% fat middle” ecosystem POV, personally love the point changes. We got 5%-10% back on lists, which has opened up quite a few different builds, as long as your requirement is “3-2 pushing for 4-1,” not “4-1 pushing for 5-0.” What SCE lists do you see pushing for 4-1? I've been away from the game for a while, and haven't touched my Stormcast lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 On 7/11/2020 at 4:19 AM, Maturin said: Buy them second handed somewhere, but don't reward GW with your money, they don't deserve it right now! that's the plan, hopefully a mini swap but if not a LGS/reseller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Whats everyone thoughts on low wound heroes. Is it worth exploring builds minimising them? With Mortek Crawlers, Teclis, Kroak and Flamers ruling the shooty magic spot, 5 wound heroes are in a precarious position likely to be sniped off two at a time turn 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Freejack02 said: What SCE lists do you see pushing for 4-1? I've been away from the game for a while, and haven't touched my Stormcast lately. During the 2018/2019 season, I went 5-0 or 4-1 with Anvilstrike in all but one event I went to. The list is still good, though there are more things that can compete at the slow ranged game, which is where it can get dicey for us. Vanguard Aux will likely be a 4-1 list in the hands of a good player. I can see Sequitor blobs coming back in vogue with their point drops. Skyborne went down across the board, and has reasonable matchups against some armies. I'm sure there's more out there to be reconsidered as well. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubyandwells Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 21 minutes ago, Requizen said: During the 2018/2019 season, I went 5-0 or 4-1 with Anvilstrike in all but one event I went to. The list is still good, though there are more things that can compete at the slow ranged game, which is where it can get dicey for us. Vanguard Aux will likely be a 4-1 list in the hands of a good player. I can see Sequitor blobs coming back in vogue with their point drops. Skyborne went down across the board, and has reasonable matchups against some armies. I'm sure there's more out there to be reconsidered as well. Yep agree with above. Going to try and sit down this week and go through a bunch of possibilities...will follow up here if/when that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freejack02 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Requizen said: Vanguard Aux will likely be a 4-1 list in the hands of a good player. I've seen people psyched for this being available, but I just cannot see how it will be even remotely effective. Once you lose the Longstrikes the list looks like it has no punch whatsoever - how do you expect it to excel in competitive? Edit: Also regarding the Anvils list that you ran in the '18/'19 days, do you still expect it to be able to hit a consistent 4-1? Seems like power creep also hits that one pretty hard. Edited July 14, 2020 by Freejack02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubyandwells Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Freejack02 said: I've seen people psyched for this being available, but I just cannot see how it will be even remotely effective. Once you lose the Longstrikes the list looks like it has no punch whatsoever - how do you expect it to excel in competitive? Edit: Also regarding the Anvils list that you ran in the '18/'19 days, do you still expect it to be able to hit a consistent 4-1? Seems like power creep also hits that one pretty hard. Some lists will have the ability to absorb the Longstrikes' shooting, or some lists could potentially do enough damage to them if they win priority for R2; but I suspect a # of lists will be hard pressed to absorb the shooting, especially if you double them. I tried it out once on TTS last week and was rather stunned at its damage output, again especially if you double someone. You'll usually have the choice who goes first. If your opponent can meaningfully hurt the Longstrikes R1, then you'll deploy them off board (assuming Total Commitment isn't being played, which should never be played, especially at a tournament), and give them first turn. If they can't threaten the Longstrikes R1 (i.e. they're a melee-oriented army), and you have reliable firing lines, then you can deploy them on board, and then give your opponent top of R1. A lot of the time, you'll have to deploy them off board, since quite a few armies can do poke damage, and you may need the drop-in positioning flexibility. In that scenario, bottom of R1, you're looking at up to: 2 Venator's with Star-fated Arrow, one with Luckstone 18 shots from Longstrikes, likely RR 1's to hit 48 shots from Vanguard Hunters 9 Bolstorm Pistol + 6 Javelin shots from Palladors A # of armies can weather that firepower...but if you double someone, and you do it again, this time with up to 36 shots from the Longstrikes...that's where it can get crazy. If you don't double someone, though, and you haven't removed most or all of their ranged damage, or managed to position in such a way that you can mitigate their reach relative to your Longstrikes, then yeah...you could be in trouble. Edited July 14, 2020 by scrubyandwells 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 29 minutes ago, scrubyandwells said: Some lists will have the ability to absorb the Longstrikes' shooting, or some lists could potentially do enough damage to them if they win priority for R2; but I suspect a # of lists will be hard pressed to absorb the shooting, especially if you double them. I tried it out once on TTS last week and was rather stunned at its damage output, again especially if you double someone. You'll usually have the choice who goes first. If your opponent can meaningfully hurt the Longstrikes R1, then you'll deploy them off board (assuming Total Commitment isn't being played, which should never be played, especially at a tournament), and give them first turn. If they can't threaten the Longstrikes R1 (i.e. they're a melee-oriented army), and you have reliable firing lines, then you can deploy them on board, and then give your opponent top of R1. A lot of the time, you'll have to deploy them off board, since quite a few armies can do poke damage, and you may need the drop-in positioning flexibility. In that scenario, bottom of R1, you're looking at up to: 2 Venator's with Star-fated Arrow, one with Luckstone 18 shots from Longstrikes, likely RR 1's to hit 48 shots from Vanguard Hunters 9 Bolstorm Pistol + 6 Javelin shots from Palladors A # of armies can weather that firepower...but if you double someone, and you do it again, this time with up to 36 shots from the Longstrikes...that's where it can get crazy. If you don't double someone, though, and you haven't removed most or all of their ranged damage, or managed to position in such a way that you can mitigate their reach relative to your Longstrikes, then yeah...you could be in trouble. Basically this. Not only is the shooting and mobility good, but ability to determine turn order (almost always 2nd unless they deploy where you can gib a unit T1) is insane for a heavy shooting list. One of the huge downsides to Anvilstrike was the number of drops, which is why it went more and more defensive over time. You'll find lists that will laugh at your shooting entirely, but rarely 2 in a single event and almost never 3. It is a bit of a mission dependent list, true, but that was the same for Anvilstrike. I think VAC can be a podium list if you get lucky draws. If not, it's still a positive record weekend list imo. But that's honestly where the balance should be, I think - I'd be far more bored playing an army that was favored for a 5-0 and made unfun games for my opponent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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