AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[PJetski]

Removing the pulse damage is a big nerf, but the biggest nerf to the comet is that you can't dispel and recast it in the same turn. The comet only does damage when it is set up, but it can only be set up efficiently if your opponent goes out of their way to help you remove it. Then consider that spells don't block movement any more and the fact that it has to be set up more than 1" from all other models is salt in the wound.

The comet is much weaker than it was before and now it costs more points. Spells are already a questionable use of points because they don't help fill battalion slots... I just can't see much reason to use this one.

I hope that changes in the 3.0 battletome.

[LordPrometheus]

1 hour ago, NinthMusketeer said:

 

As for why, you know why.

I do? I don't think I was around when I figured it out, then. Perhaps you can refresh my memory.

Edited July 12, 2021 by LordPrometheus

[Marcvs]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

Removing the pulse damage is a big nerf, but the biggest nerf to the comet is that you can't dispel and recast it in the same turn. The comet only does damage when it is set up, but it can only be set up efficiently if your opponent goes out of their way to help you remove it. Then consider that spells don't block movement any more and the fact that it has to be set up more than 1" from all other models is salt in the wound.

The comet is much weaker than it was before and now it costs more points. Spells are already a questionable use of points because they don't help fill battalion slots... I just can't see much reason to use this one.

I hope that changes in the 3.0 battletome.

Concerning the biggest nerf, you can dispel it in your opponent's turn and recast in yours  Still agree that it's hard to justify

[PrimeElectrid]

2 hours ago, NinthMusketeer said:

Well the Heraldor must pick a terrain piece wholly within 18" of himself and only hits enemy units within 3" of it. Compared to comet which is a 20" diameter circle that is dropped up to 36" away. The Heraldor is a hero offering a mobility buff, the comet is an endless spell putting out a casting debuff.

Comparing the two directly isn't helpful, instead they need to be evaluated within the context of the army as a whole and what tools is has/will benefit from. Unilaterally declaring one as superior is, with all due respect, not thinking things through.

While these are good points on the Heraldors limitations, I’ve never not played on a table with plenty of terrain to target, and most of the time there is a piece right in the middle, or on an objective, or right where your opponent wants to go.

And while it must be within 18”, don’t forget that the Heraldor can run and toot as it is not a shooting attack. That is a 27” bubble (counting the move, 18” range, and 3” within) which is a lot of board presence. Especially now that tables are smaller.

[NinthMusketeer]

3 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Concerning the biggest nerf, you can dispel it in your opponent's turn and recast in yours  Still agree that it's hard to justify

Yeah, if you couldn't dispel it during the opponent's turn it wouldn't really be worth it. But at any rate my ultimate point was not a comment on its overall effectiveness but rather that it is still useable, and that it isn't comparable to the heraldor because they are so different.

[Naem]

So I am going to have my first AoS 3.0 game this weekend against Greenskinz, should be 1500 P. and I am pretty lost building a list. I have pretty much every unit available and 2x the Dominion Box but not a clue what to play. Normally I would prefer a hammer and anvil approach with a lot of Longstrike Crossbows or 6 Kitties as the hammer, while stacking the battleline with the minimum requirement of 2x5 Liberators. Not sure if this is still viable though. The new battleline looks nice but is sooo expensive even more expensive than Sequitors which I have a hate-love relationship with because they looked so nice when they came out so that I painted 20 of them and then never used them because they turned out to be to expensive. Do you have any lists as inspiration? 

[PrimeElectrid]

51 minutes ago, Naem said:

So I am going to have my first AoS 3.0 game this weekend against Greenskinz, should be 1500 P. and I am pretty lost building a list. I have pretty much every unit available and 2x the Dominion Box but not a clue what to play. Normally I would prefer a hammer and anvil approach with a lot of Longstrike Crossbows or 6 Kitties as the hammer, while stacking the battleline with the minimum requirement of 2x5 Liberators. Not sure if this is still viable though. The new battleline looks nice but is sooo expensive even more expensive than Sequitors which I have a hate-love relationship with because they looked so nice when they came out so that I painted 20 of them and then never used them because they turned out to be to expensive. Do you have any lists as inspiration? 

You missed a trick on 20 Sequitors. They were very good for 6 months-a year after release. They are still good now as the FAQ gave them a 5++.

Nobody really knows what to play right now so just pick what you like and see how it goes.

It does seem like the following are very good:

* Monster-heroes (esp with a 3+ save, especially wizards, especially fly).

* Strong shooting units (rend 2 or MWs)

* Units with a 3+ save

* Melee units with MWs
 

Given the above I think the meta will gradually lean Vindictors > Sequitors (subject to the new book), but you could easily play a list centred around an Sequitor block, or MSU, or just build one solely out of Dominion. 

[Andalf]

Sequitors have been helpful for me.  Everything boils down to a big combat in the middle still and the 4+/5++ can’t be underestimated there IMO.  If you have spare cp for inspiring presence or a handy Lordinator minimum squads are pretty tanky.  My Sacrosanct list has been using a LA on Gryphcharger a lot and I’ve found getting either reroll wounds from empower, from my Evocators, or rerolling hits and saves on 5 man squads from his command ability to be enough of a tipping point to make them a threat, with good placement and 2 CP you can automatically score it and that can make a 10 Sequitor squad scary, turning a strong anvil into a powerful hammer.  I think Yndrasta works with this army just as well as my Tauralon, but for the first time that +2 run command wholly within 18 is coming in handy consistently.  It’s a CP starved list in a way and I’m painted Anvils but I’m loathe to say I’m looking at the Tempest Lords rules for the last few games with the old tome.

Edit: is it terrible I’m considering 3x3 castigators?

Edited July 13, 2021 by Andalf

[TheArborealWalrus]

I played a game the weekend before last and will give a brief summary of it.

2,000pts vs soulblight from the crimson keep (blood knight faction). They get certain buffs for destroying certain unit types as well as a once per game activation of 2 of the 3 buffs in an aura around the general. Only lasts the phase, but it's obscenely powerful when done right.

His list was something like:

Spoiler

Vampire lord on zombie dragon - general

necromancer

vampire lord

mortis engine (flying ghost chariot thing)

3x5 blood knights

20 grave guard

3 vargheists

My list was :

Spoiler

Hallowed Knights - I acknowledge that this list is bad, but I was trying stuff out.

Lord arcanum on dracoline - general, Pack alpha, Hallowed knights trait and artifact, Lightning blast spell

Lord Imperitant

Knight vexilor with banner of apotheosis

10 vindictors

5 liberators

5 sequitors

5 judicators with crossbows

5 protectors

3 Annihilators

3 praetors

3 evocators on dracolines

The scenario was vantage point (I think). There were 4 objectives and whoever went second got to choose an objective to give out a command point at the start of the battle round. There were scattered forests and buildings. I was made to go first. I mostly set up out of charge ranges onto the middle objectives. Keeping terrain between us. My sequitors, judicators, protectors, and annihilators were in the sky still. My opponent moved his entire army forwards toward the center and dropped the grave guard to try and charge my dracolines who had moved up the right flank. His entire army had 9-10 inch charges. Only a unit of blood knights on the left made it in and completely annihilated the liberators they charged.

I won the roll off and had to go first or get destroyed by his lances on the charge. I dropped the protectors to hit the vargheists on the left and the sequitors to reinforce them for the blood knights. The annihilators dropped in the in the center with the heroes and vindictors while the dracolines on the right got up close with the grave guard. The anihilators did a total of 3 mortals between like 6 units. Not a good start. Judicators dropped behind the grave guard to help destroy them. The entire army charged with only the sequitors failing to make it in. My hero pair went with their bodyguards into the blood knights in my line. The annihilators tagged the central blood knight unit for 3 mortals(on 10 dice - oof) with the vindictors hitting the right one. The dracolines hit the grave guard with the lord arcanum who also tagged a blood knight unit and the varghiests were charged by the protectors. My opponent popped his once per game ability for +1damage to all their weapons and a temporary + 1 to their wound characteristics. I knew how deadly grave guard were so I chose the dracolines and gave them the + 1 attack. In a round of monumentally bad dice they, with the judcators previous shooting, and their lightning managed 11 casualties on the grave guard. Ow. In return they killed the dracolines for 2 mortals back, both of which were saved. Everywhere else my forces were wiped out to a man for miserable damage back. between the extra wound and 3+ saves on the vamps we barely tickled them. Only 5 vindictors, 5 sequitors, 2 praetors, and the heroes were left besides the judicators who opted to not charge. The left went reasonably well only because it was out of the effect from the general. It was his turn next and he had no problems wiping out the rest of my army.

Ouch. I made lots of mistakes, I forgot about redeployments (even when I was reminding him to do it :P) and didn't think about that ability his general gets when making plans. I have an alternative tactic that I tried out in my next games. I also think I went too all in on that turn. I was thinking about stopping the bonus rend and damage from the charge. Turned out not to matter. I knowit was because of my terrible rolls, but for 280pts I can't justify the dracolines. Especially since I have to take a lord arcanum to get the most out of them. I'm reluctant to give them another try before the new book. Protectors got ripped apart by damage 3 varghiests before they could even swing. I give them another try in my next game alongside the sequitors. With the general increase to saves I question the value of my crossbow judicators. They aren't bad though. Mostly because you don't count as moving out of scions of the storm. (As far as I've been able to find) A lot of lessons, mostly on mindfulness from this. Not a lot of info otherwise.

Hope you all enjoyed the report and are having a good week.

For Sigmar!

Edited July 13, 2021 by TheArborealWalrus

[PrimeElectrid]

I was reading War At Amberstone Watch today, the free booklet you get with Dominion, and noticed that Knights-Arcanum are not Sacrosanct Chamber. Despite their obvious similarities they are in fact part of the Valedictor Temple.

From this I had two realisations: firstly, I had no idea what Temples were or how they fit into the convoluted mess that is the Stormhost organisational structure; and secondly this Temple is there on pages 38-39 of the 2018 book for all to see and I had never noticed it - probably because of the same convoluted mess.

Anyway, all that the battletome has to say about Temples is that they make up the Command Echelon, “graduates of the temples dedicated to the disciplines of the officer cadre.” The Temples train and equip all knights and lords before they are assigned to specific chambers.

The battletome doesn’t then bother to explain the differences between these Temples or which of them train who, leading us to make some guesses. Heraldors obviously go in the Heraldor Temple, and Relictors in the Relictor Temple. As we’re getting a Knight-Relictor, does that mean there are Lords-Heraldor? I guess Incantors and Lords-Arcanum also go in the Valedictor Temple too? Fair bet that the Knight-Judicator goes in the Judicator Temple, but does that mean that there’s a Lord-Judicator? Following the same naming convention, are there Knights- and Lords-Valedictor?

And where exactly do the Lords Castellant, Veritant (Valedictor Temple?), Aquilor, Exorcist (Relictor Temple?), Ordinator; and Knights Azyros (Relictor Temple?), Vexillor (Heraldor Temple?), Questor, Zephyros, and Venator (Judicator Temple?) fit in!

Still, it’s fun that these were staring right at us, along with the 3 closed chambers, hiding in plain sight as it were. Perhaps we shouldn’t have been surprised about the Knight-judicator after all.

(It’s still dumb that we have judicator temples training knights-judicator and also judicator units in the justiciar conclave which have nothing to do with each other).

Theres also a fluff section where the Lord-Imperatant is in something called “the Logisticiar Nexus” of a storm keep, so I would guess he is the first model from the Logister Chamber. You can’t see his left pauldron which usually designated the chamber symbol, but Stormcast naming conventions are such a mess this could mean nothing.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

Edited July 14, 2021 by PrimeElectrid

[PrimeElectrid]

Also Yndrasta should be able to use Thengavar as a melee weapon CMV 

[mystycalchemy]

23 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Also Yndrasta should be able to use Thengavar as a melee weapon CMV 

Agreed! I understand the whole throwing the spear like hunting thing, but why can't she use her fancy named spear in close combat at all??

[NauticalSoup]

53 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

*snip*

I can't believe I read all that and now feel like I understand SCE military organization even less than I did before.

SCE certainly seem like they would be logistically dysfunctional, with units formed at an anachronistically small level and then siloed off into these different branches of leadership and organization despite fighting shoulder-to-shoulder with troops from every branch and school. It's the same thing that annoys me about Primaris Space Marine organization only amped up a hundred fold and applied to a much larger force.

Does anyone who has read a lot of the lore know if SCE attend to their own logistical and support needs, or do they have like... mortals populating most of their fortresses keeping everything running.

I hope it's the former. I find the idea of a Stormcast POG amusing.

[PrimeElectrid]

More concerning, Blaze of Glory is not currently match play legal. This also means you use the old version of Scions and get the -1 to hit when you come down.

Also a problem for Kruleboyz as their allegiance ability is also currently not match play legal. 

[Nizrah]

29 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

More concerning, Blaze of Glory is not currently match play legal. This also means you use the old version of Scions and get the -1 to hit when you come down.

Also a problem for Kruleboyz as their allegiance ability is also currently not match play legal. 

Why? My TO said its (Blaze of Glory) is just added to existing AA till no new book arrive. 

[mystycalchemy]

3 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

Why? My TO said its (Blaze of Glory) is just added to existing AA till no new book arrive. 

It's definitely gonna depend on the TO, as it is, the Dominion cards are not listed under the Matched Play publications (where it lists what's legal for this season)

[PrimeElectrid]

2 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

Why? My TO said its (Blaze of Glory) is just added to existing AA till no new book arrive. 

GHB21 lays out the publications which are legal: the Dominion warscroll cards are not there (unlike BR Morathi).

There is no FAQ to say the battletome allegiance abilities have been replaced/amended.

Allegiance Abilities are not pitched battle profiles as defined in section 25. There is no entry for allegiance abilities in this section.

Good on your TO but it’s not RAW legal

[Nizrah]

Well, then its clear evidance how GW ****** up with not realising new Battletome sooner. 

[PJetski]

Are the Dominion models even legal in matched play right now? They have pitched battle profiles in GHB 2021 but their warscrolls aren't included in any legal publications.

[mystycalchemy]

16 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Are the Dominion models even legal in matched play right now? They have pitched battle profiles in GHB 2021 but their warscrolls aren't included in any legal publications.

That's an excellent point, but I think since the dominion cards are the only published rules for them, you use those. For the SCE allegiance abilities it's different, as nothing directly references Blaze of Glory, so there's nothing that depends on it.

[PrimeElectrid]

20 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Are the Dominion models even legal in matched play right now? They have pitched battle profiles in GHB 2021 but their warscrolls aren't included in any legal publications.

Lmao no 🤣

1.1 Each faction has its own battletome which contains warscrolls & pitched battle profiles 

25.0 every unit has a warscroll which is in the battletome

However GHB21 says the profiles in that book are matched play legal. This includes the new units, and every unit must have a warscroll, so they’re good, though you have to infer it. The good news is they aren’t RAW excluded, like the allegiance abilities

[LordPrometheus]

That's really really stupid if true, and just one more reason not to play SCE until their new tome comes out.

Man, I could really use some leaks right now...

[OkayestDM]

So, this is a crazy thought that's been rattling around in my head for a while. With all of the SCE shields now increasing saves, I wonder if the Stormcast are going to get some kind of allegiance ability for their Sigmarite Armor that allows them to reroll 1's to save across the board.

Don't know if that's actually going to be a thing, bit it would be an appreciable boost to their overall toughness (save of course against mortal wounds.)

[Marcvs]

16 minutes ago, OkayestDM said:

So, this is a crazy thought that's been rattling around in my head for a while. With all of the SCE shields now increasing saves, I wonder if the Stormcast are going to get some kind of allegiance ability for their Sigmarite Armor that allows them to reroll 1's to save across the board.

Don't know if that's actually going to be a thing, bit it would be an appreciable boost to their overall toughness (save of course against mortal wounds.)

everything points to rerolls being extremely rare so I wouldn't bet on it

[PrimeElectrid]

18 minutes ago, OkayestDM said:

So, this is a crazy thought that's been rattling around in my head for a while. With all of the SCE shields now increasing saves, I wonder if the Stormcast are going to get some kind of allegiance ability for their Sigmarite Armor that allows them to reroll 1's to save across the board.

Don't know if that's actually going to be a thing, bit it would be an appreciable boost to their overall toughness (save of course against mortal wounds.)

GW just went though and removed 90% of reroll saves or Rr1s, they aren’t now going to put them back in again