Andalf

My current Karazai list : Karazai Lord Arcanum on Gryphcharger Vexillor w/ Banner of the Apotheosis 2 x 5 Vindictors 2 x 3 Annihilators (one shields, one hammers) 2 Stormdrake Guard I run Knights Excelsior for the Battleline Annihilators, Celestial Blades or Thundershock for my Gryphcharger. If I don’t get first turn I basically have to hope my guy survives and I can heal him up. The Vindi’s try to drop in and block charges to my Annihilators and Dragons, while they do their best to cut a hammer in my opponents army in half with Mortal Wounds from dropping in/charging and dragons breathe. I don’t play against other Stormcast with Raptors at all, and Sentinels are normally 30-40 per army now so the 18 wounds has a decent chance of getting somewhere. The hardest part is always those damn Unleash ****** from shooting units that do MW’s, but so far I’ve felt like I could mitigate things reasonably well with threat management. The charge on a 2+ in your hero phase on the Stormdrakes is the real power.

I’ve thought about putting mountains into a Helon list just to be able to get them to be able to shoot twice when they are within 3”…. Seems like it could be neat, I often end up shooting something at that range, I’d say almost 50/50 most games but not something to build around. Iliatha doesn’t have a required command trait so you could take Majestic on your leader there, and you even get a little bravery buff for your own Aelementari Aelfs if you wanted to still take Stoneguard/Windchargers. Kind of a funny way to play what looks like more of a Vanari province though. I’m quite keen to try some choppy lists with Avalenor and Eltharion. Having just learned I could put all D3 attacks from his CA on one unit I think this build could be a surprise for people. One stack of 15 Stoneguard to take the hit and then just pummel stuff while wardens/sentinels hold the flanks. Could be fun too.

There are so many options for battle line that it doesn’t matter, but everything in this book just looks mediocre at best, other than the new dragons. I was hoping my Sacrosanct would get some kind of casting items or maybe adjust the spells a bit more. These warscrolls are almost reprints outside of an extra attack, a bit more rend or flat 2 instead of D3 damage sprinkled in here and there. Am I missing something?

I’ve tried the Bloodborn in a few games, two of them were before they split the crew up, the last one was with them and the Vargskyr attached to my Belladamma/Radukar the Beast list, mostly for staying on theme and using models I really like. With their speed and small footprint, along with similar threats, they can help turn the rear line upside down, while also being cheap enough that you don‘t mind slipping around the cracks with them and aiming to score the easier battle tactics that you don’t want a more important hammer style unit to have to waste their time doing. It’s nice having more than just 2x3 fell bats, and these guys will also almost always out-chaff the chaff IME, able to deal with small threats quite easily, things that you also dont want your main battle line to need to chase down, typically because they can’t. Call to the Hunt is a big boon for these guys, I’d like to try 3-4 units of them with a Bloodseeker Palanquin just for fun. I honestly don’t know how these double dragon armies are getting to objectives and out scoring opponents. It seems the theory in those builds is to kill as much as possible, and scoring because a matter of convenience, but I think against the better opponents and armies all cavalry/monster lists Will get bogged down and zoned out, a lot like Flyers in 40K, if they have nowhere to land or push a significant opposition force around they really can’t do much other than chew on the chaff they’re fed, especially with boards with any kind of sizeable terrain IMO. I’ve found while Monstrous Heroes get a lot of work done with all the heals, they do jack for scoring when they get caught in a slug fest with another monstrous hero that takes two/three rounds of combat. With Yndrasta, and Nagash and Archaon, (all the gods seem good now really) suddenly reigning supreme bringing anything other than them can seem like a waste of points or just plain bad strategy.

She can only raise models with a 3 wound base profile, but she’s been super clutch in every game I’ve used her, bringing back two or three models a game is no joke, especially when they are Evocators getting pushed back into base to base... I’m starting to develop my strategy actually quite specifically around her at this point because of how effective she’s truly been. I just got a Knight Azyros to boost her shooting, double tapping that spear has been glorious as Anvils, she’s a great support character and a stalwart aggro piece for tanking the big scaries, watching her go toe to toe with Avalenor has been a joy.

My LoB has gone to one drop. I stopped using a lot of units that can be one-shot, heroes do alright at soaking Unleash ****** as well as charging from 9+ away, serious risk but if you have 2-3 units going one could make it, then go squish in with your main battleline. This helps in holding objectives longer, my only unreinforced units are 2x5 blood knights.

It’s going to be interesting to see if players iron out strategies to resolve these issues themselves or if it will actually require builds from incoming battletomes to truly see what their intentions are going forward. 40k looked hardcore elite infantry for months at first, but it looks like a completely different game now with Troop Transports everywhere and hordes of stuff to push those baseline stratagems. It looks as though they are going to go overdrive into monstrous heroes, while at the same time still giving out stuff like 5+ MW 2 damage bows, which is what will be necessary for all armies to have. Reinforcing a unit or two is a good way to survive the initial impact yourself, and a stalemate is just that; I don’t have enough infantry to counter-contest but I do have access to reasonable shooting myself and a monster killer in Yndrasta so I don’t mind; I haven’t played against an army that didn’t have the tools to do the job, I’ve only played against people who didn’t have the models and want to be competitive with their janky mix of internet hand-me-downs so far.

Sequitors have been helpful for me. Everything boils down to a big combat in the middle still and the 4+/5++ can’t be underestimated there IMO. If you have spare cp for inspiring presence or a handy Lordinator minimum squads are pretty tanky. My Sacrosanct list has been using a LA on Gryphcharger a lot and I’ve found getting either reroll wounds from empower, from my Evocators, or rerolling hits and saves on 5 man squads from his command ability to be enough of a tipping point to make them a threat, with good placement and 2 CP you can automatically score it and that can make a 10 Sequitor squad scary, turning a strong anvil into a powerful hammer. I think Yndrasta works with this army just as well as my Tauralon, but for the first time that +2 run command wholly within 18 is coming in handy consistently. It’s a CP starved list in a way and I’m painted Anvils but I’m loathe to say I’m looking at the Tempest Lords rules for the last few games with the old tome. Edit: is it terrible I’m considering 3x3 castigators?

My better LoB lists have boiled down to this army. 30 Skellies, 10 Black Knights, 2x5 Blood Knights, 20 GG, Wight King, Vamp Lord, Necro, Neferata, One Drop trying to get first turn. Yndrasta and spirit flasks has ruined her day a bunch lately but Neferata has done good work fighting other monsters and generally keeping them away. Taking first turn allows me to choose aggressive expansion, which is hard otherwise, and then having good opportunities to continue with monstrous takeover or conquer rather than always relying on the easy run 3 early. You should be able to get that later if you’re careful with the rest of your characters/infantry and my battle line general strategy thing has been easy to score with only Vampires and the Necro sitting out; 30 skeletons haven’t been taken out once, and they aren’t always supported. I’m not sure which tactics are super easy really unless you have the build for it. Running 3 units can be easy turn one, we are lucky we have a lot of good monsters for takeover, aggressive expansion is the best if you go first; conquer, savage spearhead and aggressive expansion are tough without deepstrike/reserves or more than one fast hammer unit. Avengorii make out well but they’ll give up points for the same reasons. The games I’ve played it seems if you’re well built for holding objectives, you’re generally poorly suited for battle tactics, and vice versa. If you can work out your favourite units into a battle regiment, and take fast mounted heroes and monsters like we can, one drop lists should be on everybody’s priority to try out consistently and see if that going first and really pushing the momentum is key or not. Also, reinforcing key units at list building seems like genuinely the only way to protect your main squads from shooting, and a lot of folks using min squads can’t hold objectives either; merely scoring for the turn they land and then getting blown away. Which doesn’t work in every scenario now either. Side note: Since the endless legion change to each turn my Black Knights have been on the TSN turning point after burner special all over the place. I’ve found with 10 models they get their asses kicked all the time but with the 10 bravery they are hard enough to chew through with all the heals available too. Then 5 come back late game and help with savage spearhead!

I think you’re right, and the run/charge could come in really handy for the Evo’s with the Tauralon’s command ability I often flick on turn 1!! I could probably still do both in this list, or rejig and maybe bring another moving damage endless spell like aethervoid, gravetide or our own vortex for board control too. Thanks for the shout.

Agreed, the games I’ve tried the new Thunderstrike stuff made me wish I’d just used my old Sacrosanct list with a bunch of endless spells peppered in. They have their uses, but without the tome I feel that there are too many synergies I’ve come to rely on with my Arcanum lists, and for the most part those armies are swingy and completely dependent on whether my opponent can dispel a lot. I’ve taken some armies using 3 reinforced squads (2xsequitors and 1xvindictors). These units would generally just get bogged down/targeted hard and were too slow, even after deep strike, just like old AoS. They could score an objective but the following turns would tend to stand around or wait for support that was likely too busy or too slow to get there. Based on these experiences I started bringing all 5 man squads and finding interesting ways to layer them up so the back models could swing while the front took the hits. My lists went up to 40 infantry and seemed to do alright against shooty armies that couldn’t close in for the kill, and against other CC reaction-type forces I could typically out-react with 8 squads. Then I played into a couple 1 drop lists with Teclis and Neferata and noticed that my units didn’t really do any damage, they just took up space and were threatening enough. It was my opponents likely bad target priority not really able to douse the 2 damage 2” range Evocators behind the Sequitors. Against the faster hammer units like Blood Knights and Stonehorn spam this list seemingly got picked up off the table as those armies simply moved forward, there wasn’t much I could do. So now I’m back full circle. Yndrasta is amazing, it’s hard to take the Tauralon over her until I think of Battle Tactics and board control. The healing from the Knight Vexillor has been clutch in two/three games and the reroll charges even more so for my Evocators dropping in. The issue is he tends to get left behind/sniped first and so I’d say 1/2 maybe 1/3 games he’s working. Casting was really swingy when I dropped to two/three wizards in order to keep the Thunderstrike stuff in (the Annihilators love the Imperatant, and with the generic relics he’s a boss IMO) so I’ve ended up back to 4 wizards total and expecting my last 200 points will be another Incantor and Endless Spell. It’s bare bones as can be so far, the idea is to try and grab a hold of the middle of the table and then do as many MW as possible (I think AoS in a nutshell duh... haha) Tauralon Gryphcharger Lord Arcanum Knight Incantor 3 x 5 Sequitors 2 x 5 Evocators Everblaze Comet Chronomantic Cogs As I said this is 1800 points. I’m finding almost none of the damage from ‘normal’ combat all that effective unless it’s against chaff. The Gutrippaz and Manskewerz being able to drop to 5+ MW uncontested has been lethal, there isn’t a combination I can come up with that does damage like that reliably. So the mechanic has gone back to dialing up the casting to 11. Pushing up Lightning Blast, Chain Lightning, Stormcaller, Lightning Orb, Spiritstorm, on top of the wishful Cogs and Everblaze Comet can destroy and cripple a good chunk of the board. The last 200 points I’ve been testing out reinforcing Sequitors or taking another Knight Incantor, and then grabbing Soulsnare Shackles as well. Armies with auto unbinds and even 4-5 wizards of their own should struggle to keep all the casts at bay, and hopefully I can target their magic defence early myself. The grand strategy of guarding a wizard gets really easy, and honestly I’ve made it each time. It feels like a cheesier build than I’m used to, but I’m getting tired of limiting my lists and running into units that I knew I would, and hadn’t brought anything to deal with them. I’m really starting to come around on the idea of Palladors again too. It’s the 15 wound units pulling the weight for me and these guys are one of the less expensive while also the fastest and a small MW mechanic (yay 1.5 MW a turn from my beakers!) Or maybe dropping an endless spell for more Evocators again...

Both of my current lists run a Mortis Engine, it may not be OP but it does a couple things nothing else really can. List one is very Vyrkos, a vampires and zombie horde with 3/4 wizards and Cogs. The +1 to cast has been vital to putting down the support where I need, Belladamma becomes almost unbindable on +2/reroll with 3 casts. I hear corpse carts but haven’t seen one for sale other than eBay all year lol. I would still take the engine for the 14” fly, it stays with the heroes it needs to and then can support the combat/whirling melee in the centre-board. It does enough damage to threaten unreinforced stuff and can Unleash Hell after zombies have bogged things down, it’s also a massive base that can make pile-ins difficult. My 2nd list is all cavalry LoB and uses it for all the same reasons. It tends to get ignored until it pops off its payload, or takes too much attention off Neferata, the Blood Knights and Vengorian with Coven Throne coming through. It delivers consistently, and unsupported, which is rare I think in Soulblight. You might think 2d3 mortals isn’t much, and I do understand the randomness, but there are quite a few more packed into this list that can really help put characters down or at least help keep them down after heroic healing each turn. I find characters, especially monster heroes living on 2/3 wounds at the end of turns often so far, I’ll keep you posted if the investment is worth it. Sum it all up, really big fan here.

I apologize, mistakes were made clearly but it thankfully hasn’t done too much damage. The list still does the same stuff, I don’t feel so bad switching out the Lord Arcanums for an Imperatant now.

The new monster rules make him quite a bit harder to deal with IMO. I still haven’t lost him in a game yet, and I’ve been typically throwing him at stuff with that goal in mind so I can watch that double Blazing Glory go off. I put Thundershock on him so he’s now the travelling -1 to hit bubble that I seem to have in all my armies haha (Avalenor and Neferata have very similar affects). He’s also fast enough to get out and score Battle Tactics, he’s been a real lynchpin in that regard. The new VP scoring is something I think all foot lists will struggle with, but elite one’s in particular. You need to plan which ones you’re going to score early to stay even, and have an idea for which ones you have a shot at in the late game in order to pull ahead; this decision has been more important than most in the games I’ve played. With his speed he can get in turn one-two and contest or challenge some stuff and then double back and help in my backfield if it’s necessary. The Gryphcharger lord is for Healing Light. Yndrasta and the Tauralon have frequently been found on 1-3 Wounds left and it does a better job of topping up heroes than Emerald Lifeswarm does, which I keep near my main battle line and prefer bringing models back from the dead with. Evocators vs Annihilators... such an interesting question and I feel like I’d like to get 20+ games under my belt and see where the ‘meta’ settles before really wading in. Annihilators are very scary so far, and have delivered the drubbings that I’ve sent them in to provide more than they’ve failed me. I’ve been trying to keep them until turn 2 or 3 even, if you can hold out on objectives and bring them in as a counter they SLAY. Evocators are more of a post-up on an objective and come-at-me-bruh kind of thing. They don’t need any real support to hang with a lot of un-reinforced elite-killers; I think that plays more into 40k’s go and get all the objectives in a hurry first and worry about the melee in the middle later. In AoS3 I’m finding that you need to time your plays but keep it interesting by staying in the game by doing the little things you’d ignore in order to do more damage previously. I’m willing to stand out in the open for points and take shots all game, most opponents can’t scrub 15 4+ wounds off an objective with Shooting anymore, despite what the internet says. Mostly because they have a 3+ save now, in all likely hood some minor after save or healing, and you can’t get +1 to hit and extra rend unless you’re exposing characters to retaliation. It all plays quite nice together, even the edgiest cases everybody points out here as reasons to light their armies on fire haven’t been as bad because we’ve started to ensure our boards have a much more balanced terrain approach, a lot like 40k, which is incredibly important for delaying some of the worst. I keep hearing about Raptors and Hurricanes and these flamers oh my. Seemingly, spending 600+ points on A unit and supporting it with 500+ points of characters kind of sucks now, whether they are shooting or melee-centric.

My current list: Yndrasta Tauralon LA on Gryphcharger Lord Imperatant 10 x Sequitors 2 x 5 Sequitors 5 x Evocators w/ Grandstaves 3 x Annihilators Endless Lifeswarm leaves me points for the triumph or a Burning Head. So far it’s just been a take it and see how it goes. I tried praetors my first couple games but didn’t really have a character/strategy that required them, and I’ve found reinforcing the battle line a bit more important for objectives. It’s too bad that triumphs and grand strategies need to be chosen at list building, because there are games I’d rather go for the Warlord or protect my wizards over keeping battle line alive, but I suppose deciding what you’re planning to do before seeing what you’re playing into does add a sweet dynamic. Yndrasta hasn’t been as versatile as I think she could be in a more defensive army. I struggle to keep all the aura’s alive while still managing to get work done on the table. She did solid work against Lumineth basically slowing down Avalenor’s ability to wreck the middle of the table by lowering his damage drastically, and against Neferata I think didn’t have the ability to hem all the cavalry in and she managed to wade through too many Sequitors before I managed to nip her with Spirit Flasks. They make my Sacrosanct moderately tougher, mostly because of the added option of the Annihilators able to take the fight to the enemy rather than waiting around on objectives. I really want to see how they do vs a real shooting army, my Lumineth are basically a few Starshards and the Moo-Cannon.

I have been seeing how to fit Teclis into my list as well, except I want to keep Avalenor, and it feels as though the limitations placed on god level character + lord level monster hero is intentional, I don’t want to fight Kragnos and a Mawkrusha either but I will need to shortly. I always end up at 4x5 guard +2 ballistas + Teclis, Stonemage and No-name Stoneheart but I’d like to try and get it one drop. I learned today Teclis swaps perfectly for Avalenor, Lyrior and my Windmage (saves me 10 points) in my list. That change would make my healing from magic way better, and puts my magic defence on another level. I’d have less CP, and would miss out on Unshakeable Faith of the Mountains for making my Guard better on objectives, but teleport and all of those damage spells in the tool box makes it seem very worthwhile. Avalenor makes people not want to come close without their own beatstick, which is an intangible when considering he might be able to assist in denying other board control Grand Strategies/Battle Tactics. Teclis can do a lot but there aren’t very many hammer units in the Lumineth tome.

I play everything, it’s just a trend I’ve noticed lately where it feels like the ‘hot-take’ reviews = gospel around here. I’d like to add the reason is that it makes the game feel like you can never win against these kinds of players. I’ve heard the analogy on this forum recently. Basically, if you win using something that’s considered good that other people use you’re a beardy-git net-lister no matter how obvious that play is. If you try a hard combo that’s a bit left field but pays serious dividends in game then you’re playing edge case rules interactions that aren’t intended because they know the game-designer on a first name basis and he calls them at home. If you decide after all to take it easy and bring the stuff that simply looks nice you’re a fluffy-nutter and not having the right kind of fun, because you’ll just get ROFL-stomped by turn 2 and that tends to suck for both players genuinely. thanks for listening.

Noted, thank you. It’s a fun mechanic, I think, like really Fun, IMHO. All of the rules jankery surrounding it only makes it a bit better in some cases, worse in others; it still largely works this way and I haven’t seen it take over the game yet. I have seen a Sequitor’s Blazing Glory change one game though so there is that.... I wish people could allow that whole part of the game more often though; the whole “it is supposed to be Fun thing.” Not consistently boiling it down to who’s a whiter Knight for playing the game with a hand tied behind their back or making plays out to be gamey if it’s not their cup of tea. Just sayin’.

What does your list look like? I find a lot of them fill tactical holes you may not have plays into. Like taking away command abilities defensively with geminids, I think Horrorghast is great offensively for some of our shooting units. Shards of Valaghar, and Soulsnare Shackles in particular, are starting to look real sweet to me to support my Stoneguard and control those objectives in the middle.

It looks quite a lot like the 5-6 of the last bastardized Dynasty lists we’ve seen here. You’ll need to risk Mannfred in order to buff things with him, Blood Knights are always hammers, all they need is All-out attack and a reasonably fast friendly unit to help minimalize their target’s pile-in and swing back. The Vengorian protection aura will only do it if he’s in base to base, for the most part, and it doesn’t do much to protect units around him as much as it works for himself. I’d get rid of Manny and the Wolf, bring the Beast a Spellportal and another fell bat squad. The extra spawned puppies will help herd everything for your Knights, you can afford to burn some wolves on Belladamma’s command ability, which will win you games for not only taking the objective but helping to ensure nobody can contest them if they get too close. Spellportal for early Lycancurses and Fellbats for clipping/unleash hell friends. Just my two cents.

This is how we play it, I can’t see this as necessarily ‘edge-case’ rule exploitation. Cycle of the Storm has been around since the start of AoS2 and the proc to get that many rolls from Blazing Glory requires a pretty large point investment, particular arrangement on the table, and your opponent doesn’t Have to swing and take the hits... does he play any other games and always pick the underdog faction? I’d say this looks intentional and with Yndrasta getting super cycle of the Storm I’m hoping it sticks around.

Good check, I was playing it wrong when I first started and my group’s rules-guy and I came to the same conclusion as you after thinking it was really oppressive any other way. It’s still really good, IMO, timing it takes more effort but you can use your own spirit flasks to make it happen too which is kinda fun, especially so with two Lord Arcanums, which while risky is an interesting way to smash up things like Neferata before she swings.

Gryph-charger rides into combat, dies gets slain, triggers blazing glory, then is revived on one wound instead of being removed from the table with Cycle of the Storm. Then he dies again if the opponent has more than one unit and blazing glories again. If the third LA is within 18” he comes back to life again. If I go next I heroic action heals, cast healing light from Gryphcharger guy and top up with Emerald Lifeswarm. In the perfect world it’s a Lord Arcanum on Foot who charged in on a Dais Arcanum to ensure I don’t risk the heals spell on the Gryphcharger. Sprinkle spirit flasks to taste. These are high risk high reward plays for sure and once people get sly to it they might start shooting unimportant targets to draw out Cycles early, but that’s the counter play, and entirely the point of enjoying this great game.

I’ve been having good luck with 3 Lord Arcanums supporting each other with Cogs to blast MW all over and Cycle the Storm keeps these guys alive in amazingly obnoxious positions if your opponent can’t drop them with shooting (they are fast with good saves/heals), especially with the new Blazing Glory. I’ve had a bunch of games where one would die two times in a combat phase more than once, rolling 28+ dice to proc MW after dying is priceless. The rest used to be a cleansing phalanx or Ballistas/lordinator depending on how I felt about shooting that day. All my warmup games were using endless spells like nuts but looking ahead my AoS2 army minus Incantor and Everblaze Comet just about lands me Yndrasta. I’ll be taking this against Teclis tonight: Yndrasta Tauralon LA on Gryphcharger Lord Imperatant 3 x 5 Sequitors 5 Evocators w/ Grandstaves 3 Annihilators 3 Praetors Emerald Lifeswarm I’m actually not sold on the Praetors over 5 Sequitors in this list yet, or the Imperatant + Annihilators over Lord Arcanum + Evocators from my old lists. I feel like I’ll be going out of my way trying to protect Yndrasta, who is pretty tough herself, and the other characters don’t necessarily need it; maybe to keep the Imperatant on the table turn 1 to secure the Annihilators coming down. I think I still prefer my LA with Dais Arcanum to help keep my other LA’s on the table and more Evocators for holding objectives compared to the Annihilators but I’m interested to see what the models make my missus do. I’ll let you know.

Early AoS-adopter of Stormcast here too, Anvils of the Heldenhammer was what loosely kept me in the fantasy side of the hobby in those early days after the End times. Soul wars was awesome, I started to have visions of a Glymmsforge city gate with a dwarf Karak kind of influence and all types of neat conversions for my old High Elf and Empire armies. I got lucky with the fight twice CA, literally carried me in the handful of AoS2 games I played. I’ll use the crappiest set of whatever rules come out for them because it’s in my nature; there are potentially other gamers out there like me. If I felt the need to use Hammers of Sigmar rules my gaming circle wouldn’t care, and with forewarning I don’t see any tournaments I play at turning me away. Even the actual GW store I frequent where, believe it or not, an actual real human with deductive reasoning managing the store can see a regular customer who just bought that army wanting to get a game in a ‘competitive’ environment isn’t a problem. It’s just a game and those rules are there, IMO, to give some of us introverted types a small little soap box to stand on when the WAAC jerks come to defeat the true overlords of chaos and end CoVid 19 for all time with their constant and repeated adaptation of Hive Tyrants counting as Maw-Crushas or Daemon Princes, and night haunt armies that use Lumineth rules and nothing but black blank bases... eerie and confusing.