AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[LordPrometheus]

3 hours ago, ThunderstruckTinCan said:

Amazing, thank you! Really helpful! I hadn't appreciated that Praetors couldn't be used with the reserve ability

Will have a think about the Lord Arcanum - you're probably right the list is lacking any sort of magic strength at the minute. It looks like sequitors might be unconditional battleline with the new tome if the leaks are right so may not be required in future...

I'm most interested to see where Yndrasta has best value - sticking backfield and reviving/problem solving, or dropping in deep field and causing some havoc...

 

I think Yndrasta is best on the field, in the middle of your army, with Praetors on her flank, and something tanky in front of her. This gives her maximum survivability, and lets you counter charge something with her flying. Save the Scions ability for Paladins and Dracoths/Dracolines. 

 

Of course I haven't played with her yet, but that's my initial ideas after watching some early battle reports.

[Sapca]

23 hours ago, Virtus-XIV said:

The Vigilors with the drawn swords and bows look weird to me. I hope you can pose them as either shooting their bow or fighting with sword not a weird mix of both at the same time.

They are shooting their swords.... dooh. We needed some 12" shooting right. As we have 36/24/18 already.

(lol)

 

PS. Shadow Warriors... Vigilors are SCE version.

[Marcvs]

3 minutes ago, Sapca said:

They are shooting their swords.... dooh. We needed some 12" shooting right. As we have 36/24/18 already.

(lol)

 

PS. Shadow Warriors... Vigilors are SCE version.

crossbow judicators already are 12" so we got that covered. 16" shooting?

[Hoseman]

So I thought I would get dominion and something else and I think I will almost take everything...

 I'm a huge elf fan and I see too much elf typical units (swordmasters, chariots, shadow warriors, spearmen, ballista...) of course I could play lumineth but I don't like the horns and foxes and I also play idoneth and sylvaneth so as cities with my high elfs, but I'm planning a colour scheme that somehow remembers or tries to make stormcast a bit elvish. This new models are more thin and some heads are awesome... any thoughts or ideas? 

Can't wait to see the entire new army and the book

[Starfyre]

2 games of 3rd edition @ 1500pts against FEC today. Opponent's blisterskin list was 1 Archregent, 1 Varghulf Courtier, 1 Ghast Courtier, 2 x 20 Ghouls, 3 Flayers, 3 Horrors and a Terrorgheist, all wrapped in a Battle Regiment.

I tried a few things I wouldn't normally take (also don't have Dominion): Celestial Vindicators - Knight-Zephyros, Castellant, Vexillor, Incantor, 2 x 5 Sequitors, 5 Decimators, 5 Retributors, 5 Judicators and 10 Phoenix Guard. I took Warlord, Battle Regiment and the Hunters battalions.

One thing to note, we only played on 2 boards, 30 x 44", so it was a bit tight, but honestly I don't think it impeded the game except for it was really hard to find space to deepstrike in the first game - got around that by killing stuff though! 

Game 1: Marking territory: really simple one to get started with the new rules. No surprise given the small board but I was first turn charged by the Terrorgheist, Horrors and Flayers. This was planned for, the Sequitors and Phoenix Guard chosen for their abilities to negate mortal wounds, and they made good anvils for the Retributors to work off. Favourite moment was when the Castellant claimed the Terrorgheist, for it to explode and kill his Gryph-hound as retribution.

In the end, took a major victory in Turn 3 after capturing all the objectives. Decimators descended from the sky to take MVP, chomping through both the Ghoul packs. They love the new coherency rules in their anti-horde role. The Zephyros was deployed incorrectly and on the one turn she got into combat, with the Stormrage Blade and Single-Minded Fury, did absolutely nothing.

Verdict on the rules: We tried the new core rules. I found I had loads of Command Points as I kept going second, made use of Heroic Leadership, Recovery and Their Finest Hour, as well as Unleash Hell to chip the Terrorgheist, Redeploy to get my Retributors out of charge range of the Crypt Flayers, and a few uses of All-Out Attack as well.

Game 2: Power Struggle. This time used a Grand Strategy and Battle Tactics, which made a difference.

Once again I was first-turn charged, this time by the Horrors and the Flayers who were paired with the Varghulf. The opponent took the initiative to use Monstrous Takeover with the Terrorgheist on the centre objective uncontested. The Flayer + Varghulf combo wiped out my right flank, claiming 5 Sequitors, 5 Retributors, and 5 Judicators, taking an early lead on VP.

The Phoenix Guard did a load of damage to the Terrorgheist, who promptly swallowed them with 12 mortal wounds after previously blasted them with death shriek, and then killed the Incantor who had valiantly/stupidly ran in with Spirit Flasks trying to claim his final wounds (I admit, I was a bit gung-ho but I definitely thought I'd already lost the game by turn 2. Between his flasks and his attacks, I got him down to 2 remaining before the 'gheist eventually claimed him too...) However, the other unit of Sequitors claimed the Horrors, finished off the Terrorgheist (with Bring it Down for extra VP) and slaughtered 12 of the Crypt Ghouls before dying. 

Couple of great moments where my Zephyros failed to do any damage to the Horrors, took on the Archregent and failed to do any meaningful damage to him, took a pot-shot with her pistol at the 2-wound Terrorgheist and missed - despite trying various combos of their finest hour, all-out attack, and righteous hatred. She was eventually killed in action. Second best moment was when my loyal Gryph-Hound, Hawkwind, had to out of necessity claim the central objective. I realised my opponent was gearing up to snipe him with a spell so I gave my Castellant Heroic Willpower only for him to fail his Unbind and watch as his companion was obliterated by the Archregent's Miasmal Shroud.

In the end, after working hard on the objectives and the battle tactics, I went into my final turn in the final round 2 VP behind, with 3VP from his grand strategy looking like it was going to be won. My opponent's grand strategy was Hold the Line which required him to have one of his battleline units still on the board - mine was Vendetta and required me to kill the general and not lose mine, both parts of which the Knight-Zephyros failed miserably at. With 8 ghouls remaining, it all came down to the Decimators, who had already claimed the other pack of 20 Crypt Ghouls (again) earlier in the game after once again descending from on-high to deal a stupid number of attacks. They teleported thanks to the Vexillor's Pennant of the Stormbringer, and made their charge without needing a re-roll. With actual thunder in the skies of Nottingham booming outside, they attacked, and my opponent needed to make at least 4 of his 6+ ward saves to win...

He managed 2, meaning with the last roll of the game I prevented his grand strategy and won the game, claiming 3 VP from objectives to finish 1 VP ahead. All that remained were the Arch-regent, Varghulf, the Castellant, 4 Decimators and the Vexillor. Very, very tight.

Verdict on the rules: The Grand Strategy and Battle Tactics definitely added another dimension to the game, forcing us off objectives and adapting our strategy, meaning it wasn't just a carbon copy of our previous game. Admittedly, the lists aren't tournament winning, but it was fun to play with the new rules, even if we did forget some of our army's abilities here and there. Some great moments, my gaming group have it in for poor old Hawkwind (a distraction carnifex if ever there was one), and some interesting new tactics to try. We also didn't play ALL the realm rules, so that's something for next time.

Overall thoughts:

Firstly it was nice to play some games. Secondly the new additions largely improve the game in my opinion. We had no issues with coherency (then again, no cavalry or 32mm based infantry), or unleash hell (but neither army were set-up to maximise ranged attacks). 

Enjoyed the grand strategy and battle tactics, enjoyed how brilliant the Decimators were at cleaving through ghouls, laughed lots when the gryph-hound died, and everything felt quite balanced in all honesty. 

I had loads of Commands Points, especially when I kept going second. I could have used them better, I forgot Rally and probably could have used Redeploy more. In these two games, the CP from the Warlord battalion was pointless. 

Didn't see enough of monstrous rampages, but playing through and reading the rules properly, the extra opportunities monsters have to claim VP seems to make them really quite important.

I won't be playing the Zephyros again - she is dumped.

Final note - the format of the GBH 21 is very good, the rules reference on the back listing all the command abilities is pretty handy. Only gripe is the font is VERY small.

I only started writing this as a quick recap, but I guess that's a sign that today was a good day of gaming. Look forward to trying out some new lists and some of the other battleplans and rules soon, before the new Battletome drops in August.

[CommissarRotke]

23 minutes ago, Starfyre said:

Firstly it was nice to play some games. Secondly the new additions largely improve the game in my opinion. We had no issues with coherency (then again, no cavalry or 32mm based infantry), or unleash hell (but neither army were set-up to maximise ranged attacks). 

i think a lot of the issues with coherency will be easily resolved when people realize they're not reinforcing cavalry/monster units. outside of ogors, i'm not sure how many subfaction lists will want monsters/cav reinforced (let alone twice).

smaller units = more battalions = more chances for free actions

[Champasaur]

9 hours ago, mystycalchemy said:

Hey, handful of thoughts for ya

- Not much reason to make Yndrasta the General, its kinda just wasting your command trait choice (she can't have one because she's unique

- Personally, I haven't been impressed with Annihilators, to me, they seem like slightly stronger retributors. You could cut them to add a Lord-Arcanum (kitbash one or use the magazine Knight-Incantor if youre not going to a Tournament) and make them your General for Sequitor Battleline and extra casting power. 

- Also worth noting, because of how the Praetor's Soul-Forged Guardians ability is worded, whoever they soul-bond to must be on the battlefield (nothing says they have to be at first), so in your current list, they'd only be able to bond to the Lord-Imperatant and the Knight-Vexillor.

otherwise, I like the list! I hope this didn't come off as too demanding or negative!

One or two things to note, I believe a unit must be on the battlefield in order to use an ability (I saw this addressed in an FAQ). So in order to use Soul-Forged Guardians, the Praetors and the target of the ability must be on the battlefield. I fully plan on (like the previous post) running a Lord-Imperatant w/Arcane Tome. But I’ll be giving the Praetors to him so he doesn’t get sniped by mortal wounds.

[Naprapaten]

I played this list yesterday! Went far better than i expected.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Celestial Vindicators
- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence
- Triumphs:
Celestant-Prime (325) in Vanguard
Lord Imperatant (160) in Warlord
- General
- Command Trait: Single-minded Fury
- Artefact: Stormrage Blade
Lord Imperatant (160) in Warlord
Knight-Vexillor (120) in Warlord
- Pennant of the Stormbringer
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
5 x Liberators (95) in Warlord
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (95) in Warlord
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (95) in Warlord
- Warhammer & Shield
3 x Annihilators (190) in Warlord
3 x Annihilators (190) in Warlord
3 x Annihilators (190) in Vanguard
3 x Annihilators (190) in Vanguard
3 x Annihilators (190) in Vanguard
Vanguard
Warlord
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 102
 

[PrimeElectrid]

6 minutes ago, Naprapaten said:

I played this list yesterday! Went far better than i expected.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Celestial Vindicators
- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence
- Triumphs:
Celestant-Prime (325) in Vanguard
Lord Imperatant (160) in Warlord
- General
- Command Trait: Single-minded Fury
- Artefact: Stormrage Blade
Lord Imperatant (160) in Warlord
Knight-Vexillor (120) in Warlord
- Pennant of the Stormbringer
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
5 x Liberators (95) in Warlord
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (95) in Warlord
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (95) in Warlord
- Warhammer & Shield
3 x Annihilators (190) in Warlord
3 x Annihilators (190) in Warlord
3 x Annihilators (190) in Vanguard
3 x Annihilators (190) in Vanguard
3 x Annihilators (190) in Vanguard
Vanguard
Warlord
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 102
 

Baller. Did you drop all the Annihilators in one go or trickle them in?

[Naprapaten]

49 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Baller. Did you drop all the Annihilators in one go or trickle them in?

I dropped them 2(1st round),2(2nd round),1(3rd round) so that they all got money for their worth. Cant wait to try them with 2 handed weapons

Edited July 5, 2021 by Naprapaten

[Marcvs]

6 minutes ago, Naprapaten said:

I dropped them 2(1st round),2(2nd round),1(3rd round) so that they all got money for their worth. Cant wait to try them with 2 handed weapons

what's the thinking behind the 2 imperatants? I believe you can only use Guided by Lightning once per turn anyway

[NauticalSoup]

You can 100% only use it once per turn. It's specifically worded so it doesn't care how many imperatants you have.

[Erdemo86]

10 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

what's the thinking behind the 2 imperatants? I believe you can only use Guided by Lightning once per turn anyway

Had the same in my mind, there is no use in having 2…

[ThunderstruckTinCan]

2 hours ago, Naprapaten said:

I dropped them 2(1st round),2(2nd round),1(3rd round) so that they all got money for their worth. Cant wait to try them with 2 handed weapons

How was the positioning and charging? Sounds amazing but I wonder in practice how many units it'll be possible to tag with the drop-in damage, and how many times those charge rolls will  be missed...

[Erdemo86]

47 minutes ago, ThunderstruckTinCan said:

How was the positioning and charging? Sounds amazing but I wonder in practice how many units it'll be possible to tag with the drop-in damage, and how many times those charge rolls will  be missed...

I think he thaught that he’s allowed to stack the impartant ability’s.

[ThunderstruckTinCan]

45 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

I think he thaught that he’s allowed to stack the impartant ability’s.

Ah 😅if only! They look fun to play but I'm a bit doubtful about their impact - it seems like that they're only likely to do a wound or two on set-up and a handful more if they make the charge before getting chewed up by MWs. 

I wonder if there's anything in running Annhilators in a 6. You'd fall foul of the new coherency rules till you lost a model, but you'd have a unit that's really hard to shift off a back objective, has a bit more bite in the combat phase and stands up better to mortal wounds.

[Andalf]

I’ve been having good luck with 3 Lord Arcanums supporting each other with Cogs to blast MW all over and Cycle the Storm keeps these guys alive in amazingly obnoxious positions if your opponent can’t drop them with shooting (they are fast with good saves/heals), especially with the new Blazing Glory.  I’ve had a bunch of games where one would die two times in a combat phase more than once, rolling 28+ dice to proc MW after dying is priceless.

The rest used to be a cleansing phalanx or Ballistas/lordinator depending on how I felt about shooting that day.  All my warmup games were using endless spells like nuts but looking ahead my AoS2 army minus Incantor and Everblaze Comet just about lands me Yndrasta.  I’ll be taking this against Teclis tonight:

Yndrasta

Tauralon

LA on Gryphcharger

Lord Imperatant

3 x 5 Sequitors

5 Evocators w/ Grandstaves

3 Annihilators

3 Praetors 

Emerald Lifeswarm

I’m actually not sold on the Praetors over 5 Sequitors in this list yet, or the Imperatant + Annihilators over Lord Arcanum + Evocators from my old lists.  I feel like I’ll be going out of my way trying to protect Yndrasta, who is pretty tough herself, and the other characters don’t necessarily need it; maybe to keep the Imperatant on the table turn 1 to secure the Annihilators coming down.  I think I still prefer my LA with Dais Arcanum to help keep my other LA’s on the table and more Evocators for holding objectives compared to the Annihilators but I’m interested to see what the models make my missus do.  I’ll let you know.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Andalf

[PrimeElectrid]

57 minutes ago, Andalf said:

I’ve been having good luck with 3 Lord Arcanums supporting each other with Cogs to blast MW all over and Cycle the Storm keeps these guys alive in amazingly obnoxious positions if your opponent can’t drop them with shooting (they are fast with good saves/heals), especially with the new Blazing Glory.  I’ve had a bunch of games where one would die two times in a combat phase more than once, rolling 28+ dice to proc MW after dying is priceless.

The rest used to be a cleansing phalanx or Ballistas/lordinator depending on how I felt about shooting that day.  All my warmup games were using endless spells like nuts but looking ahead my AoS2 army minus Incantor and Everblaze Comet just about lands me Yndrasta.  I’ll be taking this against Teclis tonight:

Yndrasta

Tauralon

LA on Gryphcharger

Lord Imperatant

3 x 5 Sequitors

5 Evocators w/ Grandstaves

3 Annihilators

3 Praetors 

Emerald Lifeswarm

I’m actually not sold on the Praetors over 5 Sequitors in this list yet, or the Imperatant + Annihilators over Lord Arcanum + Evocators from my old lists.  I feel like I’ll be going out of my way trying to protect Yndrasta, who is pretty tough herself, and the other characters don’t necessarily need it; maybe to keep the Imperatant on the table turn 1 to secure the Annihilators coming down.  I think I still prefer my LA with Dais Arcanum to help keep my other LA’s on the table and more Evocators for holding objectives compared to the Annihilators but I’m interested to see what the models make my missus do.  I’ll let you know.

How are you rolling that many dice again?

[Andalf]

8 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

How are you rolling that many dice again?

Gryph-charger rides into combat, dies gets slain, triggers blazing glory, then is revived on one wound instead of being removed from the table with Cycle of the Storm.  Then he dies again if the opponent has more than one unit and blazing glories again.  If the third LA is within 18” he comes back to life again.  If I go next I heroic action heals, cast healing light from Gryphcharger guy and top up with Emerald Lifeswarm.  In the perfect world it’s a Lord Arcanum on Foot who charged in on a Dais Arcanum to ensure I don’t risk the heals spell on the Gryphcharger.  Sprinkle spirit flasks to taste.

These are high risk high reward plays for sure and once people get sly to it they might start shooting unimportant targets to draw out Cycles early, but that’s the counter play, and entirely the point of enjoying this great game.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Andalf

[PrimeElectrid]

Just now, Andalf said:

Gryph-charger rides into combat, dies gets slain, triggers blazing glory, then is revived on one wound instead of being removed from the table.  Then he dies again if the opponent has more than one unit and blazing glories again.  If the third LA is within 18” he comes back to life again.  If I go next I heroic action heals, cast healing light from Gryphcharger guy and top up with Emerald Lifeswarm.  In the perfect world it’s a Lord Arcanum on Foot who charged in on a Dais Arcanum to ensure I don’t risk the heals spell on the Gryphcharger.  Sprinkle spirit flasks to taste.

Just to check you aren’t using Cycle of the storm to ignore wounds right? Eg take 8 wounds, the 7th wound kills the gryph charger, he comes back and dies again to the 8th wound.

[Andalf]

Good check, I was playing it wrong when I first started and my group’s rules-guy and I came to the same conclusion as you after thinking it was really oppressive any other way.  It’s still really good, IMO, timing it takes more effort but you can use your own spirit flasks to make it happen too which is kinda fun, especially so with two Lord Arcanums, which while risky is an interesting way to smash up things like Neferata before she swings.

[CommissarRotke]

confirmed by whitefang, probably that drake unit? not sure what else they'd give us... hoping Seraphon get some of these drakes too, and Grungni saved some crafting for new duardin

 

[RedemptionUK]

10 hours ago, Andalf said:

Gryph-charger rides into combat, dies gets slain, triggers blazing glory, then is revived on one wound instead of being removed from the table with Cycle of the Storm.  Then he dies again if the opponent has more than one unit and blazing glories again.  If the third LA is within 18” he comes back to life again.  If I go next I heroic action heals, cast healing light from Gryphcharger guy and top up with Emerald Lifeswarm.  In the perfect world it’s a Lord Arcanum on Foot who charged in on a Dais Arcanum to ensure I don’t risk the heals spell on the Gryphcharger.  Sprinkle spirit flasks to taste.

These are high risk high reward plays for sure and once people get sly to it they might start shooting unimportant targets to draw out Cycles early, but that’s the counter play, and entirely the point of enjoying this great game.

Will this still work? With the FAQ where you need to resolve rules one at a time, you resolve blaze of glory which ends with the model being removed, so now there is nothing to cycle of the storm afterwards?

[Champasaur]

whoops accidental post

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Champasaur

[Champasaur]

1 hour ago, RedemptionUK said:

Will this still work? With the FAQ where you need to resolve rules one at a time, you resolve blaze of glory which ends with the model being removed, so now there is nothing to cycle of the storm afterwards?

There is no part in the "Blaze of Glory" ability that says the model is removed from play in the same instance as the mortal wound procs. It simply says "before the model is removed from play". Which to my understanding means that removing the model from play is a separate instance from Blaze of Glory. 

 

The FAQ for Core Rules 2021 states:

"Q: If several abilities are used simultaneously, can one cancel out the effect of another? A: It’s important to note that ability effects are never actually applied ‘simultaneously’ in Warhammer Age of Sigmar. If two or more effects would be applied at the same time, they are instead applied one after the other in the sequence described in section 1.6.2 of the core rules. This means that applying the effect of one ability could change the circumstances pertaining to abilities that follow it. For example, one ability effect might cause mortal wounds on a unit, while at the same time another ability effect might allow that unit to fight if it’s within 3" of the enemy. If the mortal wounds effect is applied first, then the effect of the second ability can only be applied if the unit is still within 3" of the enemy after all models slain by those mortal wounds have been removed from play."

Because Blaze of Glory and Cycle of the Storm (and Martyr's Strength) all happen on the same instance (when the model is slain but before it is removed from play), they would all occur before the model is removed from play. The only interaction I could see in the abilities that could mess things up is Blaze of Glory killing all available targets before Martyr's Strength activates (or vice versa).