RedemptionUK

Not the greatest list (cobbled together for a game after work) but I played OBR for a fun game with this: Lord Imperitant Gardus (I'd just painted him so the sole reason I fancied trying this) Lord Relictor 3x5 Sequitors 2 x 3 Longstrikes Annihilators with hammers Annihilators with shield Evokitties Against, Katakros Archan Some small hero 1 unit of mortek 6x Stalkers 2 of the fly things Immortis guard I was forced to take turn 1, did no damage with longstrikes (trait to reduce damage by 1) and only killed 2 mortek (which were revived). Then he marched over the board, got double and then proceeded to kill most of my army. Oh, and OBR have anti deep strike in their spell lore which also stopped me from really using the annihilators I know I didn't take the strongest list, but it was a blood bath and I didn't even kill a single model. after the game was over we just played out if I dropped both units onto archan, the grandhammers failed their re-roll 7 inch charge, the shields got in.. the shields came off worse than archan did (terrible rolls on my part). Definitely getting pushed out of playing games and just sticking to painting as it's not even fun how behind we feel in having fun things to do, it's not even that the warscrolls we have are so much better, they can outweigh extra rules everyone else has on top of extra rules for synergies.

What duplicate sprues? It looks like I've got 2x sprues for both vigilors and vanquishers and the 2 dragon sprues look the same. Should they be different?

What I mean, is that it could quite feasibly be 680 points you were intending to take anyway. With added bonus of potential TBV every turn

Just to be devil's advocate, a 680 point model that is in no way a tax and is incredibly good in its own right.

Meanwhile Seraphon ^^ My DoK playing friend justified it by having to invest a lot of points in being able to do so.. He did not mention that the points required for it include Morathi so who cares ^^

Good job it's gonna help with all those Thunder Lizard lists!

So from changes on the app: Dragons now have once per battle can rr charge instead of hero phase move. Thunderbolt Volley can only be issued to non reinforced units. In unrelated news, Seraphon got completely screwed with scaly skin; it now only effects Saurus, Kroxigor and Monsters.

I ran 2 ballista with an ordinator last weekend (finding points to commit to more ballista was too difficult imo), they largely did nothing over 5 games, and are very swingy when they do get a shot through. Rapid fire felt largely pointless (use when what your shooting reduces damage taken by 1 I guess).

Not at carnage unless 3.0 book faq that didn't happen yet confirms it

I love that this weekend has shown that we actually are a toolbox army now. Where you can find successful lists to either win tournaments or have fun on the mid tables that have their own style and unit composition. Before all we had was a box of rusty and blunt tools with only a couple of sharp ones hidden around.

You don't need to worry about min maxing in order to win/have fun. I think playing weaker lists makes you a better player in the long run! Depends on what you want to get out of the hobby after all!

Your army looked so damn nice! If you're at the next solo player carnage I'll have to say hi in person!

No, you can't use a call to aid unit to get that grand strategy.

So I placed tied 15th at Mancunian Carnage this weekend (My sportsmanship votes helped me catch up as I was lower on the quirky secondaries / painting score in comparison to who I tied with), going 3-2. This was my first 5 game tournament (I played in a small 8 person 3 game event and got stomped 0-3 just as 3.0 started, but before the new book) with a list similar to what I ran this weekend (I am a slow painter and started playing at the start of the pandemic, so I was limited in my selection to what I had painted. Outside of the secondaries (hard to accomplish: e.g. roll an unmodified charge of 11+ in the game you pick it), the other rule in list building was to take the first artefact you pick from your battletome. Battleplans were decided by a spinny wheel of destiny (I believe all battleplans were a possibility, although if a previous battleplan showed up the TO would spin again: Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals, Stormkeep- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery- Triumphs: BloodthirstyLeadersLord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (200)***- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)- Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts- Spell: ThundershockLord-Relictor (145)***- General- Command Trait: High Priest- Artefact: Mirrorshield- Prayer: TranslocationKnight-Incantor (125)***Lord-Ordinator (130)**Battleline5 x Liberators (115)- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield- 1x Grandweapons5 x Liberators (115)- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield- 1x Grandweapons5 x Vindictors (130)***Units5 x Evocators (230)*5 x Evocators (230)*- 5x Grandstaves3 x Evocators on Dracolines (280)*- 2x GrandstavesArtilleryCelestar Ballista (140)**Celestar Ballista (140)**Core Battalions*Hunters of the Heartlands**Grand Battery***WarlordAdditional EnhancementsArtefactHoly Command: Call for AidTotal: 1980 / 2000Reinforced Units: 0 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 118Drops: 12 I tried to minimise drops in list building, but felt that regardless I'd get out-dropped and decided to just maximise drops to cram in as many battalions for free bonuses, as well as having the benefit to see how my opponents deployed (4/5 times) and plan my deployments with that knowledge. As I've found Evocators to be quite glass cannony, my plan was to set up in kind of a castle of a unit of libs and vindictors to screen for my evocators to all be conveniently within 12" of my relictor who could reliably translocate a buffed unit to scalpel units/weak flanks, while my kitties and arcanum did their own thing on another flank hugging the board edge before going in, and my ballista for the most part just existed (would definitely swap them and the ordinator out for another shooting unit, but I did want to at least have some aspect of shooting to pick at heroes where needed). Later on I could move my surviving battleline to contest late when they counted as 3 bodies per model. A final disclaimer, I spoke to the TO and it was confirmed that I couldn't move after translocate, so I was relying on 9 inch charges with the evocators, meaning I'd have to be extra careful to not let them get stranded and die off getting counter charged. Game 1: Loss vs Solblight (ended up going 3-2) on The Vice Really cool and lovely guy to play my first game against while my anxiety was playing up a little. He was running Nagash, Manfred and a Vengorian Lord that he deathballed right into my face after making me go first and him winning priority to get a double. I couldn't deal with Nagash being in my face with the buffs Nagash/Manfred were putting out, alongside debuffs the Vengorian Lord was putting out and I just got blown up. I feel like I just didn't have the tools in the list to deal with that many big threats that quickly. My secondary was to always pass priority if I won a turn roll. I never won a roll this game so I got it by default. 0-1 Game 2: Win vs OBR (ended up going 1-4) on Feral Foray Another awesome guy (who was fairly new to playing the game) who was also running a Nagash list. I had a couple of games against my friend to warm up for the tournament (went 4-1 with a Nagash OBR list at Carnage) so I had an idea of how to tackle the list. He only had 6 units and after moving up his Morgast Archai and letting my kitties eat them up. I got a double turn to now exploit one of his flanks open with 10 mortek and a boneshaper. I'd buffed up a unit of evocators and sent across to crash into the mortek with both the evos and the kitties. I got all but 1 of the unit (whiffed hard on attacks) and was worried that I'd fall apart when the bodies came back. He then tried to move nagash across the board to address the flank I'd hit but he had to sit his Mortek units on objectives to protect them from my translocate hijinks. On my next turn I'd managed to kill the rest of the 10 mortek and the boneshaper. He had to try to move 20 mortek across but my sole evokitty left alive managed to screen and hold off 20 mortek (while surviving on 1 wound!) to allow me to get too far ahead as time was winding down (game was a lot slower to play due to a lot of warscroll card reading for the OBR player). After I deleted an objective for going second in turn 3, I was holding 4 objectives to his 1 (with his other 20 mortek guard in a corner of the board unable to really get anywhere to impact the game) he conceded. 1-1 Game 3: Win vs Living City (ended up going 1-4) on Apex Predators (my favourite game of the weekend) Great bloke where I only won really because he let me fix my poor order of operations of movement when I was flustered on turn 3. He had an awesome game of thrones themed paint job, featuring a lot of sisters of the watch, phoenix guard, a hurricanum, frostheart phoenix. Round one Living City took first turn and plonked all 3 of this heroes on the objectives controlling them immediately and forcing me to get aggressive early to try and shift his army. He had on one flank a black dragon hero screened by 2 units of tree revs, in the middle his frostheart phoenix with 3 units of 10 phoenix guard, and the other flank his hurricanum with 20 sisters of the watch about. On my turn I decided to ignore the flank with the hurricanum and hope that I could force him to have to take first turn in battleround 3 so I could remove the objective from that flank. I ran in my LA and evokitties to break through the tree revs and translocated a buffed unit of evocators behind the dragon. They made the charge and managed to finish it off after I got some wounds off with my 2 ballista on the hero. I won priority for Round 2 and took the double (hoping the situation would play into making him feel he needed to take the double if he won the next priority roll). I moved my Lord arcanum onto that flanks objective and had to sit him there until I could get my relictor or incantor to run over there to take it off him. I crashed my evokitties into a unit of phoenix guard and they managed to blow most of them up. My foot evos on that flank failed their charge. On his second turn he continued to sit on the objectived and he managed to tickle my kitties and charged into my vindictors that were also pushing up. He also managed to shoot off my Incantor with his sisters. I won priority again for Round 3 and gave him first turn so I could remove the objective on the opposite side of the board I'd focused on. This effectively took his sisters out of the game and the hurricanum had to try to move and get involved in the battle. My vindictors and kitties were starting to get worn down by the phoenix guard and my buffed up evos still near my relictor failed their charge even after reroll after I translocated them to get into the frostheart phoenix. My relictor tried to run towards to objective my LA was sitting on, but was still too far away for her to start pushing up. Round 4 I lost priority and started to get my evocators chipped (fortunately the sisters that could fire largely whiffed). My last kitties died to a hurricanum unleash hell. On my turn I managed to start getting my LA involved so she started running towards the frostheart. My evos got into combat with the frostheart after my ballista took more pot shots (doing 4 wounds), but the evos largely wiffed, with me losing 3 on the hit back. RoundTurn 5 I needed to win priority to still have a chance (His grand strat was to have more units alive than me, which he was incredibly far behind on. I managed to get my LA into the objective and in a last ditch effort, threw everything I had at the frostheart. I managed to take it down, completing my battle tactic and well as nabbing the objective. This swing, on top of him being unable to cap an objective and do a battle tactic at the same time, resulted in me swinging the win thanks to my Grand Strategy. 2-1 Game 4: Loss vs Ironjawz (ended up 3-2) on Savage Gains He punched me hard, counter charged me on my turn (with his subfaction ability), denied my battle tactics with smart redeploys and I was done for by the end of my turn 2 (I was going first in turn 2). Not much to write about. Really nice guy and it was still a fun experience to hang out with him for a couple of hours even though I got smashed. 2-2 Game 5: Win vs Idoneth Deepkin (ended up 2-3) on Power Struggle Really cool guy, I owe him a drink next time at Carnage as he bought me one while I was still deploying! I'd say that the ballista were absolutely useless this game, but they made for great (but expensive) zone control to stop his reserve charge. He had most of his army deployed on one of his objectives in a castle with a unit of allied aetherwings sitting on the other. I was castled up on the opposite side of the board to him, with some libs sitting on the other objective with my ballista and ordinator and he gave me first turn. Round 1 I was made to go first. I buffed up some liberators and translocated them 9" away from the aetherwings. I made the charge and managed to nab the objective turn 1, and ran my vindictors towards the middle objective. He maybe overcommitted onto killing my libs (using the unit of 6 eels zaps) for his battle tactic as they managed to draw 2 allopexes, Volturnos, a unit of 6 fighty eels and a unit of 3 tanky eels. He advanced one unit of tanky eels to cap the middle objective, leaving one unit of fighty eels sitting on his other objective. He opted to not use his reserves. When my libs died I used my holy command to bring them back to then screen/sit on my home objective near my relictor again. Round 2 he won priority and then sent his 2 allopexes into my advanced evokitties (I pushed them out of continue to screen out the board edge), whilst having my fairly spread castle denying my entire backboard. and threw his tanky eels into my vindictors in the middle and they started their extended slap fight. My kitties managed to shrug off the first allopex to fight them and then quickly blew up the second one before it could attack. On my turn I translocated a unit of buffed evos to then tackle his 3 fighty eels he left isolated turn 1; dropping them on the board edge side on order to screen off from his reserves if I failed the charge. I did make it and my evocators killed 2 eels, while I did leave an evocator chained outside of combat in order to still screen off the board edge. My kitties killed the second allopex as my lord arcanum caught up to them from screening after I was able to have my Incantor rotate to take his space on my mass board edge screen. I got a long bomb charge off on my Lord Arcanum and he was able to tag both his tanky eels and slap fight them. Round 3 he won priority and as I was starting to take control of the objective game (while he was still waiting for a decent gap to use his reserves), he went second to delete the objective I had my ballista and libs on. On my first turn I piled in my arcanum to tag the fighty eels near the tanky eels he was in combat with and managed to face tank everything again whilst having his best day. I couldn't translocate my other unit of evocators sat in my deployment castle or I'd create a big whole for him to drop behind me, so I was patient. Although he was fighting first this turn, he did minimal damage and I continued to chip away at him. I also capped the middle objective as my vindictors near it became 3 models each. On his turn he dropped his reserves in his territory launched volturnos and the newly arrived fighty eels into my LA, managing to finally take her and her evokitty friends out in the process. Time was starting to wind down so we agreed initially to just play out round 4. I won priority and took the double. His grand strategy was to keep his reserve priest alive at the end of the game, while at this point he'd ran out of chances to realistically do battle tactics and score enough points via objectives. I managed to translocate my last buffed unit of evocators in his territory and with a reroll charge got them into combat with his priest and they killed him. GG 3-2! Sorry for the huge post for anyone still reading. It was my first big tourney and I didn't think I'd take a game after looking at this lists people were running in the tournament. I am absolutely over the moon being able to go 3-2 with a fairly subpar list in my opinion. MVPs of the weekend being the evokitties and relictor! Overall, I lived and died on objective control and getting battletactics to keep up. I didn't kill much throughout the tournament, only having 2665 kill points over 5 games.

I ended up going 3-2 today at Mancunian Carnage, one SCE list came first and I'm pretty sure another finished higher than me too. I've just had some bad personal news, but when I feel better I'll do a writeup if anyone is interested.

Yeah I saw this! 2 of us other SCE players are currently 2-0-1 / 2-1 running different things too; one list with 25 judicators and 9 castigators and mine being: LAoCD Relictor (general) Knight Incantor Lord Ordinator 2 x 5 Libs 1 x 5 Vindictors 2 x 5 Evocators 1 x 3 Evokitties 2 x Ballista Running Call to Aid in a Hammers of Sigmar Stormkeep For the record; even if I lose both games tomorrow, I'm over the moon to have nabbed 2 wins in my first 5 game tourney!

I tried 2 ballista and ordinator in a list. It was nice but didn't do enough for the investment I feel.

Tauralon is a 1 cast wizard now.

Increased unit size? It's still units of 2 in the Pitched Battle Profiles 2021.

I never thought there would be a debate over the number of spells Evocators can cast.

After feeling that a list with multiple drops leading to not dictating turn order. I decided to try a 3 drop list with Gotrek (friend wanted to test out his list for a tournament tomorrow and asked me to play him), I have grown to massively appreciate dictating initial turn order when nothing I have for lists so far really can make use out of the 5+ ward artefact. I still really like Evocators and have grown to appreciate Sequitors more again. I'm excited to see how the new book plays; especially with the potential to have less worry about sitting 5 battleline on a back objective without feeling like they will struggle to really contest if need be due to being out-numbers almost all the time.

*4th Turn at best, i.e. end of 2nd battle round.

1.5.5 Dice Roll Modifiers Rules that refer to an unmodified roll are referring to the dice roll after re-rolls have been made but before modifiers are applied. I feel like the rule you are quoting to try and deny the re-roll is implied that if you had MW on 6 or +1 successful hit roll on 6, you would have to decide which one you would use. Not both.

As they always have the 6 to hit = MW though, wouldn't a lantern being introduced be a more recent effect and overrule it? Also all rerolls occur before effects occur?

Played a game of SCE v Ironjawz on The Vice. Definitely prefer 3.0 where is feels like you're playing the game still on the opponent's turn (getting doubled in 2.0 when that results in an hour + of you doing little outside of rolling dice and removing models against a shooting army was a real NPE in my mind. The game was incredibly close, and came down to a failed charge in turn 5 for Ironjawz to try and maybe take the lead after a very back and forth game where Ironjawz was in front for the majority of the game. The game feels like your initial turns are setting up for the later turns rather than smash face turn 1/2 and hope for a double to cripple the other army into being useless and is in general more fun. But maybe that's because our lists weren't hyper tuned and weren't top tier competitive. Playing around potential redeploys also made for a more tactical approach with my evocators. (Do I move them forward closer than 9 inches away and risk making the charge harder, or do I stay 9.1 away and make it a 6 inch charge with gavriel.