AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[schwabbele]

33 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Why a Stardrake ? +1 to save, 1 wound healed every turn and ?

Need a purpose and motivation to build it  and the trait fits well , and the -1 rend attack first artifact is also a good fit 

[Charlo]

I'm looking at using some Prosecutors and an Azyros... Any tips my friends? 

Best loadouts/ other support?

[jhamslam]

29 minutes ago, Charlo said:

I'm looking at using some Prosecutors and an Azyros... Any tips my friends? 

Best loadouts/ other support?

Prosecutors are quick objective grabbers and harassers. Not very good for their points cost, unless they make them battleline in the next book. 

Azyros is very good, almost an auto take in any shooting army

[Maturin]

53 minutes ago, Charlo said:

I'm looking at using some Prosecutors and an Azyros... Any tips my friends? 

Best loadouts/ other support?

The only time I took ranged prosecutors, they sucked damage wise. For 100 pts i'd rather take 2 more untis of aetherwings. They've been my mvp in my games.

[Charlo]

Hmm yeah, they seemed a little lack luster. Oh well, back to the drawing board...

[Lucur]

Prosecutors with javelins are among the better shooting units for sce as long as they get their damage buff (from pure mathhammer under ideal circumstances ofc). For 90 pts they are not bad at all, it's more the fact that either points are too slim to shave those off in most lists or that the role they fill is redundant.

[schwabbele]

22 hours ago, Maturin said:

Deepstriking 6 desolators on a flank with living city, shooting, then using the CA to move up to 10", autocharge in  the charge phase, that's great too!

That's utterly disgusting , let's say we add general on bird to the equation with fight first artifact , would that mean bird guy goes first and then the desolators 2nd if both make the charge?

[Maturin]

Yup. Though it could be nice to Deepstrike a castellant to buf fthe desolators, for them not to suffer too much from what you charged them in

[LillenS]

On 10/7/2019 at 11:18 AM, TomParry84 said:

Change one dice roll 'per phase' so changing two 5s into 6s's usually giving an extra 4 mws a turn if shooting twice. It makes a big difference!

This dosen’t work due to the hit has to be a unmodified hit of a 6”. So you cant change the roll of a 5 to trigger more mws. 

[schwabbele]

@Maturin Cas buff is in hero phase so probably won’t work when you deepstrike them in. And the CA from the bird general buffs them further to the point I would sh*t my pants 😂

[Lucur]

If general on bird means a freeguild general on griffon that won't work. The CA still specifies freeguild, not CoS units.

 

[schwabbele]

Meh  

[Maturin]

28 minutes ago, schwabbele said:

Meh  

Yeah, both our plans

[Heijoshin]

snip

Edited April 16, 2020 by Heijoshin

[FattBooM666]

I love my SCE but I would like to try make as strong army as possible focusing points on sce but having CoS as the main. (If this is possible)

I feel we are in a bad place with bodies, so I am thinking maybe could compensate it with CoS. 

Idk if I want shooting, magic, melee. 

But we have elite units, no only extra activation is heldenhammer, depravity enjoy our multiple wound army.

Our battle line is idk a bit lacking.

We can have 1/4 as sce. 

 

So I am thinking if I could get more bodies for objectives. (Since we generally lack that)

And have elite units/heroes from sce.

Things that i think should be interesting is: dracoths, evocators, castellant/heraldor.

Magic/shooting/artillery?

And idk if it works but maybe some of our other heroes could be good if possible having as a general and a unit of retinue for that hero? 🤔

(At the narrative I have a stonecast army already , goal is also to make say like 25/50/75/100% CoS that is turning to stone. And my general should be a converted Medusa leading everyone. I am really hyped for that) 

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by FattBooM666

[Isotop]

6 hours ago, LillenS said:

This dosen’t work due to the hit has to be a unmodified hit of a 6”. So you cant change the roll of a 5 to trigger more mws. 

It would work if you could change the dice roll itself. It does not work with the Starseer´s CURSE OF FATES spell because it changes the result of a dice roll.

[PJetski]

59 minutes ago, Isotop said:

It would work if you could change the dice roll itself. It does not work with the Starseer´s CURSE OF FATES spell because it changes the result of a dice roll.

You are correct that it would not work, but not totally for the right reason.

"Unmodified" means the roll before any modifiers. Changing the result of a dice roll with Curse of Fates is a kind of modifier. The same thing can be seen with a Lord of Change changing one dice to match the second - this counts as a modifier, too.

Edited October 9, 2019 by PJetski

[Isotop]

14 minutes ago, PJetski said:

You are correct that it would not work, but not totally for the right reason.

"Unmodified" means the roll before any modifiers. Changing the result of a dice roll with Curse of Fates is a kind of modifier. The same thing can be seen with a Lord of Change changing one dice to match the second - this counts as a modifier, too.

A Lord of Change does not change the dice roll with MASTERY OF MAGIC:

 

"When you make a casting or unbinding roll for a Lord of Change, change the result of the lowest dice so that it matches the highest."

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-lord-of-change-en.pdf)

 

As you just said, changing the result of a dice roll is indeed a modifier (it is adding/substracting basically). Changing the dice roll itself is something different however and is not a modifier:

 

"Q: Some abilities allow you to either pick, change or replace a dice roll with the roll of your choice. Does this happen before or after any re-rolls or modifiers? A: Unless noted otherwise in the ability, it happens before any re-rolls or modifiers are applied."

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/age_of_sigmar_core_rules_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf, page 3)

[PJetski]

The LOC warscroll was written in AOS 1.0; it is poorly worded and not consistent with the AOS 2.0 ruleset. For example, you can't change the "result" of one dice in a 2d6 roll, because a 2d6 roll is a single roll of two dice and not two rolls of 1d6 added together. 

The problem here is that "modifier" is not clearly defined by GW anywhere, but they tend to go for a literal definition, ie. anything that modifies the dice rolls is a modifier. Happening before other modifiers doesn't mean it's not a modifier, just that it's a different type of modifier.

When a LOC casts a spell that has some kind of effect on a roll of a double you would check the unmodified dice rolls to determine if it was a double, not the value shown after Mastery of Magic changes one of the dice.  This is because MOM is a modifier.

[Maturin]

Hey guys, what do you think ? Am I right or am I wrong in the way I understand this rule ?
 

 

[Isotop]

2 hours ago, PJetski said:

The LOC warscroll was written in AOS 1.0; it is poorly worded and not consistent with the AOS 2.0 ruleset. For example, you can't change the "result" of one dice in a 2d6 roll, because a 2d6 roll is a single roll of two dice and not two rolls of 1d6 added together. 

The problem here is that "modifier" is not clearly defined by GW anywhere, but they tend to go for a literal definition, ie. anything that modifies the dice rolls is a modifier. Happening before other modifiers doesn't mean it's not a modifier, just that it's a different type of modifier.

When a LOC casts a spell that has some kind of effect on a roll of a double you would check the unmodified dice rolls to determine if it was a double, not the value shown after Mastery of Magic changes one of the dice.  This is because MOM is a modifier.

Yeah we know that MOM is a modifier, since it changes the result of the roll, not the roll itself. Those are two different mechanics, as my second quote shows.

[Boobashamaka]

On 10/7/2019 at 11:31 PM, FattBooM666 said:

What is you play style with this? 

 

What will be I'm the air and how will you use the CA for extra shooting? 

My list for a tournament this week end:

- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

LEADERS
Lord-Veritant (120)
- General
- Command Trait : Deathly Aura
- Mystic Light (Artefact) : Lantern of the Tempest
- Prayer : Translocation
Knight-Vexillor (120)
- Pennant of the Stormbringer
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Artefact : Soulthief
- Spell : Chain Lightning

UNITS
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1 x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1 x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1 x Grandhammers
3 x Aetherwings (50)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
12 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (680)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (170)

3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (170)

BATTALIONS
Vanguard Justicar Conclave (120)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN
Dais Arcanum (30)

 

Any thoughts?

 

You will generally not start. Everything that shoot stays in the air. Except if there is no obvious threat and you can deploy your unit of 12 on the table to shoot at something interesting from the deployment or try the 3+ Translocation staying wholly within 18' of your general to shoot in the Hero phase.

The 2x3 Raptors stay always in the sky, looking for another shooting angle. Generally it is better to place them in a way different place than the 12 men unit to create another source of distraction.

1 unit of Birds, 1 or 2 of Libs can stay in the sky as well.

 

The idea of this list is to shoot at all big threats meaning monsters or heros in the first 2 turns. Then eliminate the rest thanks to battleshock tests on top of the killing.

It is a good list worth trying but you may lack board control in some scenarios and so have problems to control/challenge objectives. Killing is never a problem.

Finding the sweet spot between being aggressive on objectives, protecting your raptors and maximizing their damage is the challenge.

 

 

 

 

 

[XReN]

On 10/8/2019 at 4:19 PM, Charlo said:

I'm looking at using some Prosecutors and an Azyros... Any tips my friends? 

Best loadouts/ other support?

First - Prosecutors and Azyros themselves ARE support for your other elements, try playing Vanguard Wing - it can be fun. Maybe as a variation of anvils list with big judicator unit. Sigh, I miss the days of VW's glory

[Marzillius]

A question to the people who play Anvilstrike: Do you often put the Longstrike unit in the sky? Is that like the default tactic, or something that you rarely do? I'm considering a list with 9 Hurricane Raptors instead of Longstrikes since I want to be special, but their shorter range would encourage scioning them more, rather than relying on the Relictor's 3+.

[Mark Williams]

1 hour ago, xking said:

How would you guys make the stormhost rules and stormcast units better? 

I feel like this has been done to death, but eh.... I like talking about stormcast, so I'll list out some of the big ones in my head.

1. I feel like there's too many heroes with special abilities that are good, but you can't take them all because magic is such an important part of the game now. Lord Castellants and Knight Encantors seem almost like mandatory takes in a lot of builds, and that doesn't leave much room for the other characters which are also really interesting and good too.You also have stuff like the Lord Acquilor or the Lord Arcanums which are needed to unlock certain battle line units. I feel like this "hero bloat" has become a bottleneck of sorts, and it stops me from taking more varied lists because I feel like my hero slots have been semi forced upon me. I realize that non-Stormcast armies might look at this and think I'm just not appreciating the variety that we have, but I seriously feel like this is a problem that needs to be addressed somehow.

2. The hero command abilities in many cases are a bit lame or redundant with the new generic abilities that were added in GHB19. Again, I wouldn't mind seeing these revisited to make them a little bit more relevant again.

3.  Liberators are a bit pathetic compared to most other battle line. I'd like to see them hitting on 3s always, and to make their special ability perhaps do something else than +1 hit.

4.  We still need massive points adjustments across the line. I won't get into this here. Someone made a decent list a while back just before GHB19 came out that was pretty much spot on.

5.  We need some help holding objectives. This is killing us in otherwise tight/close games where we are playing well. I suspect they need to introduce the 40k mechanic that allows troops to maintain hold on objectives even if they are outnumbered.

6. We need battalions that don't suck.

7. Stormhost rules..... too complicated to get into them all but in a nutshell Anvils doesn't need to be the only "obvious choice".