AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

[DocKeule]

There are named characters in all stories but they barley ever get rules and make it to the tabletop. 

[mrteige]

I had another game today with my Tanky IDK list. Unfortunately i did'nt remember to take pictures but you'll get the battle report anyways.

 

The lists:

Flesh Eater Courts- Grand Court: Blisterskin

Leaders
Abhorrant Archregent (240)- General- Command Trait: Hellish Orator - Artefact: The Dermal Robe - Lore of Madness: Spectral Host
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (420)- Artefact: Eye of Hysh - Lore of Madness: Monstrous Vigour- Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (420)- Lore of Madness: Blood Feast - Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite
Abhorrant Ghoul King (160)- Lore of Madness: Spectral Host
Abhorrant Ghoul King (160)- Lore of Madness: Blood Feast

Battleline
3x10 Crypt Ghouls (100) (300)

Battalions
Royal Family (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Chalice of Ushoran (50)
Extra Command Point (50)

 

Idoneth Deepkin- Enclave: Fuethan

Leaders
Akhelian King (230)- General- Bladed Polearm- Command Trait: Lord of Storm and Sea - Artefact: Cloud of Midnight - Mount trait: Voidchill Darkness
Isharann Soulscryer (130)

Battleline
3x3 Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140) (420)

Units
2x3 Akhelian Allopexes (330) (660)- Razorshell Harpoon
2 x Akhelian Allopexes (220) - Retarius Net Launcher

Behemoths
Akhelian Leviadon (340)- Mount trait: Ancient

 

Battleplan:
Better part of Valour

Realm of life

Turn 1:

IDK:
I moved up a little bit so i had Ishlaen guards on 2 objectives, brought on my 2 sharks with nets and my scryer and shot and killed all his ghouls

FEC:
He got all his spells off, adding 4 attacks to 1 og his Terrorgheists, Teleported it 9" away from me, summoned on 40 ghouls and 3 flayers and charged my left side with Terrorgheist, 3 flayers and 10 ghouls.
Terrorgheist killed 3 Ishlaen guards and 2 sharks and did some damage to his Terrorgheist

 

Turn 2:

FEC:
FEC got the double turn, He got all his spells off once again, this time only 3 extra attacks on the other Terrorgheis. This guy teleported onto my other flank and charged in.
In total he killed 3 Ishlaen guards from 2 units, and killed all my sharks with harpoons. I managed to kill his flayers and put 11 wounds onto first Terrorgheist and 4 wounds onto the second Terrorgheist.

IDK:
First off my boat started the turn by killing off the first Terrorgheist and by the end of the turn i had killed the second Terrorgheist and 10 Ghouls.

 

Turn 3:

IDK:
I got the double this time, not that i had much use for it, and i moved forward. My 2 remaining sharks did manage to kill a unit of ghouls, so at this point my opponent has 14 ghouls and his 3 foot heroes left.

FEC:
He buffed and teleported 1 of his ghoul kings up to try and remove me from one of my objectives but because it was turn 3 i killed him before he could get a chance to hit me.

 

Turn 4:

FEC:
All the way through the game we traded double turns. Once again he buffed a ghoul king, teleported him and wiffed completely against 2 Ishlaen guards. In return i killed him

IDK:
I tabled my opponent and took the Major win

 

Really fun game with a lot of models dying. Also nice to see that this list can stand up to an alpha list. And really glad i got the win because I made SO many positioning errors. Gotta clean that up next time I play

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by mrteige

[Molkaice]

I'm actually speaking more to the "gift" that volturnous receives.  I was just wondering if maybe we'll see more cythai level heroes.  I can't remember if there was a clear resurrection or soul placement in new vessels with IDK.  Just want to be hopeful that we won't have just one useful and one useless named hero only.

[Frowny]

For outrageously strong competitive build I give you the Akhelion Corps, with no fat at all

270 Volturnos - -1 to be hit

100 Akhelian Corps

340 Leviadon - Ancient

140 3x Ishalaan Guard

140 3x Ishalaan Guard

340 6x Morsaar Guard

330 3x Sharks with Harpoons

330 3x Shark with Harpoons

2 Drops, 3 major threat units for that crucial turn 3, the turtle to hide behind a 2+  or 3+ unrendable wall for the first few turns, a lot more ranged than classic builds. Also easy to drop a shark or 2 for either a soulscryer or substitute for more shield eels or more combat eels, or even a spicy eidolon. 3 drops is still pretty low. 

At least more varied than other earlier builds, and I think will be quite potent. Would ironically do less well against other eel builds as its pretty vulnerable to mortal wounds, but would likely do better against t1 shooting threats like KO who will struggle to remove a wall of 2+ save unrendable eels. 

[DocKeule]

19 hours ago, Molkaice said:

I'm actually speaking more to the "gift" that volturnous receives.  I was just wondering if maybe we'll see more cythai level heroes.  I can't remember if there was a clear resurrection or soul placement in new vessels with IDK.  Just want to be hopeful that we won't have just one useful and one useless named hero only.

It is possible either with the new book and/or if Idoneth are included in a starter set (I would expect a generic hero in the second case).

What I would welcome moste were some command abilities that could be used without bein the general.  (IDK see to be about the only army that has that?). I think at least Volturnos' ability should be free to use regardless. Other than that a cavalry hero that below the king would be nice maybe even a mounted caster. 

Edited November 20, 2020 by DocKeule

[Rhetoric]

2 hours ago, Frowny said:

For outrageously strong competitive build I give you the Akhelion Corps, with no fat at all

270 Volturnos - -1 to be hit

100 Akhelian Corps

340 Leviadon - Ancient

140 3x Ishalaan Guard

140 3x Ishalaan Guard

340 6x Morsaar Guard

330 3x Sharks with Harpoons

330 3x Shark with Harpoons

2 Drops, 3 major threat units for that crucial turn 3, the turtle to hide behind a 2+  or 3+ unrendable wall for the first few turns, a lot more ranged than classic builds. Also easy to drop a shark or 2 for either a soulscryer or substitute for more shield eels or more combat eels, or even a spicy eidolon. 3 drops is still pretty low. 

At least more varied than other earlier builds, and I think will be quite potent. Would ironically do less well against other eel builds as its pretty vulnerable to mortal wounds, but would likely do better against t1 shooting threats like KO who will struggle to remove a wall of 2+ save unrendable eels. 

I’m right there with you that Akhelian Corps is viable now, but without another hero I think ultimately this list isn’t competitive, Places of Arcane Power is probably an auto lose for this list.  
 

I think you’re looking at a good list if you can add a Soulscryer.  My tough as nails Tournament list only includes Volturnos and a Soulscryer with Akhelian Corps in Dhom Hain.  Even two heroes is tricky.  I’d even suggest running the Morrsarr as MSU as well.  You only have three units to do the heavy lifting in the list.  I’m getting some games in soon with the BR: Morathi new rules and Akhelian Corps  will be tested.  

[Molkaice]

I actually asked my friends that recently, because I'm pretty sure we're the only army that has 1 command ability army wide that is also restricted to 1 phase as well.  if we had more command abilities, better artifacts, and definitely a rework of prayers I'd say that would meet a lot of my dreams. However I'm just holding on for the likely point increases to eels

[Tizianolol]

Guys anyone know when they fix points on aos app?:)

[Drofnum]

Who knows, the last time it took months for them to update.  I want to pay for that service less and less as time goes on.

[Supsociety!]

On 11/18/2020 at 7:56 PM, alekusu said:

Honestly it has been like that since the beginning. We never had a clear MOUNT ability like you can see on other army's scroll (Arcanum on Dracolines for example: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Downloads//ENG_Lord_Arcanum_on_Celestial_Dracoline.pdf)

But we always considered that the fins/jaws/bites/etc count as mounts.

Not true, before the warscroll changes as you can see on the akhelian king and the eels warscrolls still it specifically says in the weapon description that the riders attack with “x” melee weapon, and the eels/mount etc attack with “x” melee weapons. These are also considered to be AoS 1.0 warscrolls and therefore use the AoS 1.0 rules when referring to mounts. This is why people allowed the sharks/turtle/eels to reroll 1s to wound.
 

As the leviadon and shark no longer have these direct clarification in their weapon description, and are now up to par with AoS 2.0 warscroll wording it is 100% going to ruled against idoneth deepkin players in not letting them reroll their 1s to wound.

 

if you recall the pink horror icon bearer issue when tzeentch got their updated warscrolls people argued for weeks that fate dice didn’t work on the banners, the counter argument was “well that’s what we did before.” That didn’t matter, and GW had to faq it. Same thing will happen here, it’s just most people haven’t noticed the wording change yet 

 

edit: in addition both eidolons have the up to par wording on their shoals counting as mounts. So the eidolons getting updating wording can now reroll 1s to wound on shoal attacks when they couldn’t before, but the sharks and turtle didn’t get updated wording yet can somehow still reroll it? Doesn’t make sense 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Supsociety!

[Supsociety!]

5 minutes ago, Supsociety! said:

Not true, before the warscroll changes as you can see on the akhelian king and the eels warscrolls still it specifically says in the weapon description that the riders attack with “x” melee weapon, and the eels/mount etc attack with “x” melee weapons. These are also considered to be AoS 1.0 warscrolls and therefore use the AoS 1.0 rules when referring to mounts. This is why people allowed the sharks/turtle/eels to reroll 1s to wound.
 

As the leviadon and shark no longer have these direct clarification in their weapon description, and are now up to par with AoS 2.0 warscroll wording it is 100% going to ruled against idoneth deepkin players in not letting them reroll their 1s to wound.

 

if you recall the pink horror icon bearer issue when tzeentch got their updated warscrolls people argued for weeks that fate dice didn’t work on the banners, the counter argument was “well that’s what we did before.” That didn’t matter, and GW had to faq it. Same thing will happen here, it’s just most people haven’t noticed the wording change yet. Which is why it needs to be brought up so GW can see before they post the Faq for the BR morathi book. 

 

edit: in addition both eidolons have the up to par wording on their shoals counting as mounts. So the eidolons getting updating wording can now reroll 1s to wound on shoal attacks when they couldn’t before, but the sharks and turtle didn’t get updated wording yet can somehow still reroll it? Doesn’t make sense 

 

[Kramer]

Happy with my test model so now i'm working on the rest of the start collecting. 

After which I will get the 2 shark and a king box. Which makes it a nice round 980 pts for small games. 

What would you recommend to add afterwards? Need to send the Christmas list to santa on time this year  

The army will be mostly played by my girlfriend so one Turtle is a must. And Lothan pretty much as well. 

She's a clever player so little intricate things will most likely be for her. Don't mind adding eels although they are her least favourite fish models in the range.  

Any fun combo's I need to look at?

 

[DocKeule]

Since ist is still pretty obvious that there are rider on a mount. Plus the old warscrolls differentiated between the rider and the eel or shark but the word "mount" was not used either. It is still kind of clear that the crew won't bite nor do they have "lashing tails".

[Kitsumy]

Yes im confused about this book always stating that volturnos was the only cytai, i though every idoneth were cytais, as woodelves were asrai or darkelf druchi etc.

 

And what use do we have for those powerful cytsi souls?? Only gods like teclis,morathi or malerion can use them. Our heroes arent powerful, so we cant make new units with them.  Maybe on future book teclis make new elves for us with those souls to makeup for his old errors and as an apologice to idoneths?

[Tizianolol]

Guys new voi drum ability says that +1 to save for unit with woumd 8 or less, can that benefit my ishlaen guarda? 3 of them is total wound of 12. Or i have to consider 4 wound ( the nimber of wound per model) ? Thx!!:)

[herohammer]

It counts wounds per model

[DocKeule]

4 hours ago, Kitsumy said:

Yes im confused about this book always stating that volturnos was the only cytai, i though every idoneth were cytais, as woodelves were asrai or darkelf druchi etc.

 

And what use do we have for those powerful cytsi souls?? Only gods like teclis,morathi or malerion can use them. Our heroes arent powerful, so we cant make new units with them.  Maybe on future book teclis make new elves for us with those souls to makeup for his old errors and as an apologice to idoneths?

IDK are recycling souls any way so they could "implant" those rescued souls into new bodies to give them whatever powers that GW would want to attribute to them. 

[swarmofseals]

Are the updated warscrolls online anywhere yet? It doesn't appear that the website has been updated, and the AOS app also seems to still have the old warscrolls.

[DocKeule]

GW is kind of lazy with stuff like that.

[Fyrithil]

With the new rules I decided to switch from Khorne to Deepkin since the sculpts are amazing. Already working on the Start Collecting but I’m stuck with the eels. Been on and off painting over the last 8 years or so but I can’t seem to get the paintjob anywhere decent on the eels. I saw the Warhammer TV video on the eels but my recreation looks awful. I think I want a more solid colour scheme but no clue how to get a nice blending effect. I was thinking Pallid Wych Flesh on the belly fading from Pallid Wych Flesh with a Fuegan Orange shade to Khorne Red. I can’t get the blending to look natural so I removed all the paint and was hoping any of you could give me some tips on how to get a nice blending effect on the eels.

Many thanks in advance!

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Fyrithil said:

With the new rules I decided to switch from Khorne to Deepkin since the sculpts are amazing. Already working on the Start Collecting but I’m stuck with the eels. Been on and off painting over the last 8 years or so but I can’t seem to get the paintjob anywhere decent on the eels. I saw the Warhammer TV video on the eels but my recreation looks awful. I think I want a more solid colour scheme but no clue how to get a nice blending effect. I was thinking Pallid Wych Flesh on the belly fading from Pallid Wych Flesh with a Fuegan Orange shade to Khorne Red. I can’t get the blending to look natural so I removed all the paint and was hoping any of you could give me some tips on how to get a nice blending effect on the eels.

Many thanks in advance!

Hmm i just edited a tutorial for Oscar lars on how to paint fur and he talks about transition between the underbelly, side and top color of an boar. Not exactly the same but it could help. Just don’t know when he’s going to post it on YouTube. 
 

personally I’m avoiding the whole issue by going full green with orange tiger stripes. build up the green slow and then the stripes on top of that. 

 

maybe you could switch the scheme up as well and avoid the whole light to coloured transition? The cover of the time shows a cool example of that. 
 

 

[W1tchhunter]

Anyone know if this colour scheme is available as a tutorial anywhere? I got this image from the GW website, it is also featured in the book so it is definitely one of theirs, it will go well with my swamp bases  

99120219008_IdonethIshlaenGuard01.webp

[woolf]

2 hours ago, Fyrithil said:

With the new rules I decided to switch from Khorne to Deepkin since the sculpts are amazing. Already working on the Start Collecting but I’m stuck with the eels. Been on and off painting over the last 8 years or so but I can’t seem to get the paintjob anywhere decent on the eels. I saw the Warhammer TV video on the eels but my recreation looks awful. I think I want a more solid colour scheme but no clue how to get a nice blending effect. I was thinking Pallid Wych Flesh on the belly fading from Pallid Wych Flesh with a Fuegan Orange shade to Khorne Red. I can’t get the blending to look natural so I removed all the paint and was hoping any of you could give me some tips on how to get a nice blending effect on the eels.

Many thanks in advance!

I did mine with airbrush which makes it kinda easy. if you don't want to bother getting one of those I would suggest doing a "reversed zenethal" ie spray dark grey then spray from straight below with white. after that you glaze over (or use contrast paint) e.g. blue or green or whatever you want for the base color for the eels

[Fyrithil]

8 hours ago, W1tchhunter said:

Anyone know if this colour scheme is available as a tutorial anywhere? I got this image from the GW website, it is also featured in the book so it is definitely one of theirs, it will go well with my swamp bases  

99120219008_IdonethIshlaenGuard01.webp 74.96 kB · 9 downloads

The colours they used are in the comments of this Reddit post. Not a complete tutorial though. 

 

[Fyrithil]

10 hours ago, Kramer said:

Hmm i just edited a tutorial for Oscar lars on how to paint fur and he talks about transition between the underbelly, side and top color of an boar. Not exactly the same but it could help. Just don’t know when he’s going to post it on YouTube. 
 

personally I’m avoiding the whole issue by going full green with orange tiger stripes. build up the green slow and then the stripes on top of that. 

 

maybe you could switch the scheme up as well and avoid the whole light to coloured transition? The cover of the time shows a cool example of that. 
 

 

Thanks for the reply, the green is not for me as I don't like the colour that much but a scheme like the one on the Battletome cover is not a bad idea at all.. How would you approach this? Corax White undercoat, Pallid Wych Flesh belly, Khorne Red on the topside and using watered down Caroburg Crimson on the transition. Afterwards adding the streaks shown on the cover and using Fenrisian Grey with a bit of Tallisar Blue in the center of the streaks so the red still is visible on the edges?