AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

[Denegaar]

Hello guys and girls!

I just started with AoS with Deepkin I like Elfs and I loooved the looks of this army. 

I got the Start Collecting and I built Spear Eels, the 10 Thralls and the Soulrender. 

Now my question, my Hobby Store owner has a Deepkin Battleforce that sells to me at 10% reduced price. Even with the upcoming changes (GHB19?) and the possibility of some units being different in a couple of weeks, do you think it's worth to buy the box? Of course, I'm not a competitive player, I've only been "hobbying" for a year or so...

Thanks!

[JackStreicher]

On 4/16/2019 at 8:38 AM, Aelven supremacy said:

Yes they are our main mortal wound dealers in current builds but the leviadon, tidecaster and aspect of the sea can also do that.   I have never found Morrsarr’s mortal wound output to be overly strong anyway given it is once a game.   It’s not exactly a reliable consistent MW output.  It’s what... 13 wounds total for the entire game from 18 eels?  2.5 per battle round.  And that’s assuming you are volting with a full unit.

They can but for what price? The turtle is about 80-100 pts too expensive imo, this trend of overpriced units that perform below-okay is like a red thread throughout the army except for the eels (and maybe the king).

I‘ve tried other builds but well... every thrall build loses the thralls rather quickly. The Reavers are a fun unit that doesn‘t do much (and costs way too much) sharks are ****** though I love the models... Eidolons are absurdly too expensive... well. Long story short: I tried balanced lists and had a hard time (I never won) since you lack numbers and all abilities have a way too small „wholly within“ range, plus most of our artifacts and traits are rubbish and „one time use only + on a 1 it does nothing or hurts yourself“ bs.

🤷🏼‍♂️

And if you play eel-heavy your list quickly becomes unbeatable to -inexperienced players- so I cannot play it... 🥺

and don‘t get me started on those never-working prayers...

 

I am kind of frustrated with the army right now though I love it so much

Edited June 10, 2019 by JackStreicher

[Kelsicle]

16 minutes ago, Denegaar said:

Hello guys and girls!

I just started with AoS with Deepkin I like Elfs and I loooved the looks of this army. 

I got the Start Collecting and I built Spear Eels, the 10 Thralls and the Soulrender. 

Now my question, my Hobby Store owner has a Deepkin Battleforce that sells to me at 10% reduced price. Even with the upcoming changes (GHB19?) and the possibility of some units being different in a couple of weeks, do you think it's worth to buy the box? Of course, I'm not a competitive player, I've only been "hobbying" for a year or so...

Thanks!

This is exactly how I am getting started with Deepkin. The Start Collecting and Battleforce box give a good selection of units, and include all but some heroes and the big Turtle. I think it’s a good way to get your feet wet and see which units you enjoy playing with. Plus on the hobby side it gives you a good variety to build and paint.

Id recommend picking up Volturnos and a Soulscryer after these as they are good hero options. But you’ll have more than enough to keep you busy for a while with the two boxes.

[Acid_Nine]

@aelven_supremacy Until I know exactly what is going to change and how much, I am refraining from worrying about it too much. If it turns out that the levidon and alopex (and possibly ishlaen ) drop in points enough to cover it, then I wouldn't worry about dropping morrsarr in my list. Just gotta wait and hope.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Acid_Nine

[Gwill_of_the_Woods]

@Denegaar- yeah I think it's worth it.

I too, play for fun (&fluff), with a very narrative style.

I went for the models that I thought I'd enjoy painting and it built from there!

My favourite so far is my Eidolon of Mathlann:)

[Denegaar]

On 6/10/2019 at 9:18 PM, Gwill_of_the_Woods said:

@Denegaar- yeah I think it's worth it.

I too, play for fun (&fluff), with a very narrative style.

I went for the models that I thought I'd enjoy painting and it built from there!

My favourite so far is my Eidolon of Mathlann:)

Wow that's a cool miniature!

I'll buy the Battleforce with my next paycheck   and I'll add a King and a Soulscryer to fill the army. With that I'll have everything I need to play 1000-1500 pts lists I guess.

[thediceabide]

So what are people thinking about the Meeting Engagements org chart? Looks like no big units of eels, might be time to send in the sharks?

[Acid_Nine]

21 minutes ago, thediceabide said:

So what are people thinking about the Meeting Engagements org chart? Looks like no big units of eels, might be time to send in the sharks?

For me nothing really changed my lists for 1,000 point games (morrsarr can still be doubled up for being battle line) and the only think that I have to consider is what I want to do for the vanguard and main body. I would have to play the game to see how it goes.

[mmimzie]

If they take battle line off morrsarr.  Which is the change I'd make to them, than i wouldnt run morrsarr in meeting engagements. I think.

[Acid_Nine]

1 hour ago, mmimzie said:

If they take battle line off morrsarr.  Which is the change I'd make to them, than i wouldnt run morrsarr in meeting engagements. I think.

Honestly, It just wouldnt make sense if they did. Basically because it would both cut back on sales of their eels, and just by looking at other battletomes. (Like FEC getting terrorgheist Battleline but we can't get eels? Or fyreslayers getting Hearthguard Beserkers as battle line, and even Troggoths becoming battle line? )

Edited June 12, 2019 by Acid_Nine

[Denegaar]

Wow! 1000pt rules are nice for people like me that are starting with the game  Sign me in. Wondering how it's going to work with Deep Strike though.

[Maddpainting]

On 6/11/2019 at 10:00 PM, mmimzie said:

If they take battle line off morrsarr.  Which is the change I'd make to them, than i wouldnt run morrsarr in meeting engagements. I think.

If they did this then every army needs to stop doing that, BoC can take Bull and Dragons Ogres as BL, FEC can take Dragons for a couple examples. They wont do that, it takes away a large part of the game that players like and it isnt that unbalanced. Some Point changes stops spam.

[mmimzie]

4 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

If they did this then every army needs to stop doing that, BoC can take Bull and Dragons Ogres as BL, FEC can take Dragons for a couple examples. They wont do that, it takes away a large part of the game that players like and it isnt that unbalanced. Some Point changes stops spam.

Dragon orgres just aren't at the level of morrsarr guard, and we also already have ishlaen as battle line. I like ishlaen as battleline and morrsarr as not battle line. 

 

Like FEC dragons as battle line aren't jack in comparison to morrsarr guard. 

Same with many of the other choice. Morrsarr are decently durable, Really fast, and really killy. Having them as also battle line is too much. The only other unit that does this are witches from daughters of khaine, but it's more a need to fix hagnar which makes them too durable. 

Edited June 14, 2019 by mmimzie

[Aelven supremacy]

8 hours ago, mmimzie said:

Dragon orgres just aren't at the level of morrsarr guard, and we also already have ishlaen as battle line. I like ishlaen as battleline and morrsarr as not battle line. 

 

Like FEC dragons as battle line aren't jack in comparison to morrsarr guard. 

Same with many of the other choice. Morrsarr are decently durable, Really fast, and really killy. Having them as also battle line is too much. The only other unit that does this are witches from daughters of khaine, but it's more a need to fix hagnar which makes them too durable. 

Our strongest build is Fuethan Tidecaster where battleline status of eels is irrelevant.   Dhom Hain King builds are already a step down in effectiveness.  Nerfing them even further by removing Morrsarr from battleline will just make Fuethan Tidecaster even more entrenched and remove build options, not increase them

Edited June 14, 2019 by Aelven supremacy

[Kelsicle]

Idoneth Deepkin

A deadly unit in matched play, Morrsarr Guard have seen a small increase in points, now costing 170 for a unit of 3. On the other hand, Idoneth Deepkin players can look forward to some reductions across their army, with the Akhelian Leviadon and both Namarti Thralls and Namarti Reavershaving seen cuts.

 

These changes seem pretty reasonable, a 10 point increase for Morrsarr should only really hurt those lists that bring nothing but eels... A Tidecaster list with 3 x 10 Namarti battle line units and a unit of 9 Morrsarr will be the same net cost as it is now.

Still hoping for a decrease to Allopexes though.

[Drofnum]

I think we'll see bigger cuts on the Reavers than 10-20 points.  Thralls will probably be 20.  I think if they were all +-10 it would have said so in the article. But this could just be wishful thinking.

I'm with you on the Allopex for sure, I have 2 I would love to get on the table.

[Stormy1486]

Reavers and thralls went down by 10

Aspect of sea by 20

Turtle by 30

Shark by 20

Ishlaen untouched

Soulscryer went up by 30 though

Aspect of storm untouched.

 

Honestly compeditively this has changed nothing. You trade points of taking decreased costing reavers/thralls for the cost increase on morsarr.

Aspects are still grossly overpriced.

Turtle is still not worth 350 points.

It gives friendly lists more breathing room though for sharks and turtles though.

[Kelsicle]

1 minute ago, Stormy1486 said:

Reavers and thralls went down by 10

Aspect of sea by 20

Turtle by 30

Shark by 20

Ishlaen untouched

Soulscryer went up by 30 though

Aspect of storm untouched.

 

Honestly compeditively this has changed nothing. You trade points of taking decreased costing reavers/thralls for the cost increase on morsarr.

Aspects are still grossly overpriced.

Turtle is still not worth 350 points.

It gives friendly lists more breathing room though for sharks and turtles though.

Any source for this?

Sharks need more than that to be competitive but it’s better than nothing. 

[chosen_of_khaine]

57 minutes ago, Kelsicle said:

Any source for this?

Sharks need more than that to be competitive but it’s better than nothing. 

Not sure if I can post leaks but I saw it too, can confirm. Soulrender and Lotann also went down 20, for whatever that's worth.

Edited June 15, 2019 by chosen_of_khaine

[Stormy1486]

Yeah i dont want to link anything in case i breach rules. The photo is making the rounds on facebook (for example witches elves are 120 for 10).

As stated though the aspects are still way overpriced for what they do. We are also yet to see what the GHB will do with stacking command abilities for kings/volut.

Compeditively it will still be eel stacking. The turtle need to be more like 300-320, and the aspects 350. 

10 point drop on thralls and reavers make them nicer in friendly matches. I was hoping reavers to go to more like 110.

 

[Acid_Nine]

As a dirty no good eel lover, I am happy that my favorite unit didnt get too much of a point raise. I just hope they don't lose battle line, and then my Dhom Hain Akhelian Core just needs two more boxes of eels and I would have a complete 2,000 point army. 

 

Still wish sharks and turtles got a bigger point drop, something like 80 to 100 points down on the turtle and 40 points from the sharks. Ah well, I still need to get a handle on these bois, as my local meta has some Really tactical players....

 

Also, any news on the tide caster and King  going up or down in points? or the archmage?

Edited June 15, 2019 by Acid_Nine

[Reuben Parker]

3 sharks for 360 or 6 spear eels for 340. Edge will still probably be with eels. Can gain cover, faster and better charge re roll. MW output and greater overall damage. 

Sharks only major plus is a small amount of range damage and not losing any output until 8 wounds taken. 

Its defiently closer now though compared to 420 and 320 price tags. 

[Kitsumy]

Yeah this did nothing.. Changes are on rigth track but numbers are waaay small. Even my diverse list. With only 6 morsarrs. Turtle 40 baldys etc got only 40points cheaper. So thats nothing since we cant get nothing with that. Only change for me is ill have a useless triumph on every game if they are called like that.

 

I dont get the 30% increase on soulrender when the turtle only got a 7% decrease per example.

 

And magic avatar?? It is way worse than any skaven verminlord. And still cost the double. Even a 100p decrease wouldnt be enough. But 20??? Thats a joke. And wont change anything.

 

 

Best change for us in general book is the absurd megabuff on swordmasters. They were allready waaay better than thralls for me ( despite noone uses them). And they said 40 will cost only 380. So my guessing is they will go from 140p to 110p making them a total beast. Since they have a 4+ save rerolleable in shoting!! This works wonders for me with idoneth passive. And into melee they are better than thralls in big numbers since they figth in 2 rows instead only 1 of thralls. Reroll 1s to hit. Have better save and leadership. 

So. They were allready better than thralls. Heck they were the best elite unit with white lions for me. And they got a crazy drop in points!!

Edit: gw failed again on article. Swordmasters are 380 for 30. Not for 40 like they said. So only got a useless max unit disccount.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Kitsumy

[Acid_Nine]

1 hour ago, Reuben Parker said:

3 sharks for 360 or 6 spear eels for 340. Edge will still probably be with eels. Can gain cover, faster and better charge re roll. MW output and greater overall damage. 

Sharks only major plus is a small amount of range damage and not losing any output until 8 wounds taken. 

Its defiently closer now though compared to 420 and 320 price tags. 

The advantage with sharks is that they have rend outside of the charge with bite and fins, so they can possibly grind down a unit more than speels can (in theory.) 

I still feel like the shark should be around 100 points though, or at least modified to have two bite attacks and have the crew wound on a 3+ or something...

[DanielFM]

Points have already leaked.

The bad:

-130 points Soulscryers. Harsh

-170 points Morrsar. Manageable

-Eidolon of the sea 420 points, Eidolon of the Storm 400. So -20 and unchanged. Still a hot pile of garbage.

The good:

-350 points Leviadon. 

-120 points Allopex. Both closer to be useable.

-80 points Soulrender

-130 points Namartis. Nothing groundbreaking, each 10 infantry guys pay for the Morrsar overcost.

Overall? Nothing will change. With a pure eel list, you lose 30-60 points. With a mixed list, you gain maybe 30-40 points. What use are those, an endless spell?

I hope other armies didn't get cuts across the board, because we will be left behind.