AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

[frenk_castle]

Hello gardeners of Nurgle.

As somebody who does not play Maggotkin I wanted to ask how the new disease mechanics works? I read on community site and watched one batrep. I heard that there is some way to remove disease count from a unit but not how. Can some of you that read the battletome please share with the "enemy" how can I defeat you.

Thanks in advance

[elescapo]

7 minutes ago, frenk_castle said:

Hello gardeners of Nurgle.

As somebody who does not play Maggotkin I wanted to ask how the new disease mechanics works? I read on community site and watched one batrep. I heard that there is some way to remove disease count from a unit but not how. Can some of you that read the battletome please share with the "enemy" how can I defeat you.

Thanks in advance

Disease counters are added at the end of every movement phase and every combat phase to each enemy unit that is within 3" of a Maggotkin of Nurgle unit.

The Diseased Weapons ability (shared by all Maggotkin units) also adds one Disease counter for each unmodified 6 to hit.

A unit can have a maximum of 7 Disease counters.

At the start of the Battleshock phase, you roll a die for each Disease counter on a unit, and each 4+ is a mortal wound.  This target number can be modified to as low as a 2+ with a combination of a few specific abilities.

At the end of the Battleshock phase, the number of Disease counters on each unit that has them is reduced to 1.  Unless you heal them, they will remain Diseased with at least 1 counter for the entire game.

The way to remove them is pretty simple: whenever you would restore a lost wound to a unit with one or more Disease counters, you may choose to remove one of those Disease counters instead.  So you must make a choice: "healing" or "treating".

I think I caught everything.

[frenk_castle]

16 minutes ago, elescapo said:

Disease counters are added at the end of every movement phase and every combat phase to each enemy unit that is within 3" of a Maggotkin of Nurgle unit.

The Diseased Weapons ability (shared by all Maggotkin units) also adds one Disease counter for each unmodified 6 to hit.

A unit can have a maximum of 7 Disease counters.

At the start of the Battleshock phase, you roll a die for each Disease counter on a unit, and each 4+ is a mortal wound.  This target number can be modified to as low as a 2+ with a combination of a few specific abilities.

At the end of the Battleshock phase, the number of Disease counters on each unit that has them is reduced to 1.  Unless you heal them, they will remain Diseased with at least 1 counter for the entire game.

The way to remove them is pretty simple: whenever you would restore a lost wound to a unit with one or more Disease counters, you may choose to remove one of those Disease counters instead.  So you must make a choice: "healing" or "treating".

I think I caught everything.

Thanks a lot. So for instanse Blades of Khorne prayer Resanguination, or generic prayer Heal, or Mawpot, or Healing Light from Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-charger when I get them of I can choose instead of healing D3 wounds to remove all disease counters? Or only the amount I would heal. For instance my Ironguts have 4 disease counters and I heal them with Mawpot and roll 4 on a D3 do they end up with 2 disease counters or I do not have to roll a D3 and remove all disease counter?

Thanks in advance

Edited December 18, 2021 by frenk_castle

[Hannibal]

Only the amount you would heal. 

[frenk_castle]

2 minutes ago, Hannibal said:

Only the amount you would heal. 

Thanks a lot

[Scythian]

On 12/13/2021 at 3:05 PM, AmonRa said:

I can't figure out a counter to Gotek or gargants at the moment. Like anything.

While Gotrek is a perfectly legal character, I find games with him uncreative and boring. He’s obviously meant to be a narrative character in my opinion, but try telling that to the guy who keeps getting crushed by mega gargants. You’ll always have your pro and anti Gotrek players and ultimately it will be much expended co2 which will resolve nothing. Until he’s moved to legendary status, Gotrek will be busting up tables and breaking dreams of glory for a long time to come. 

[Fellman]

I love the new book but way is ther more painting guides for Nurgel in the wrath of the everchosen book then it is in the Nurgel book?

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, Fellman said:

I love the new book but way is ther more painting guides for Nurgel in the wrath of the everchosen book then it is in the Nurgel book?

Because you can't make mistakes when painting Nurgle, it's always just extra  "blessings" 😉

[Aphotic]

Anyone play the dragons vs. nurgle matchup? I wonder how that goes. Seems dragons can just play grabass all game and never engage.

[frenk_castle]

2 hours ago, Aphotic said:

Anyone play the dragons vs. nurgle matchup? I wonder how that goes. Seems dragons can just play grabass all game and never engage.

Stormdrake Guard is fast. Stormcast can get I think maximum  of 10 Stormdrake Guard if they only take one Knight-Draconis. So if opponent split them into 5 units of 2 then each unit counts as 10 models on an objective. I am not sure about Nurgle points. I would assume you could just swarm objectives with Plaguebearers and hold them off on majority of the objectives.

[Fellman]

Not decided on plagug legion yet and i want to bild from the vanguard box for a 1000p arme

Spoilpox Scrivener general arcane tome 

2x10  Plaguebearers of Nurgle

5 x Putrid Blightkings

2 x Pusgoyle Blightlords

3 x Nurglings

995p

so wath du you think?

[spenson]

2 hours ago, Fellman said:

Not decided on plagug legion yet and i want to bild from the vanguard box for a 1000p arme

Spoilpox Scrivener general arcane tome 

2x10  Plaguebearers of Nurgle

5 x Putrid Blightkings

2 x Pusgoyle Blightlords

3 x Nurglings

995p

so wath du you think?

Befouling host seems like the best one for armies that don't heavily invest in one specific theme.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, spenson said:

Befouling host seems like the best one for armies that don't heavily invest in one specific theme.

I feel like Drowned Men has play even with minimal investment in Pusgoyles. I think the utility is already there if you bring even just a single unit of them. The 8" pre game move is just really nice for an army that is as slow as Nurgle is now.

I actually think if you are just playing Nurgle goodstuff, then you can fairly comfortably pick any Plague Legion. None of them have crazy good benefits for a mixed list. The only one to avoid seems to be Filthbringers (if you are not going to include a Rotcoven, that is).

[Nezgor]

I've been thinking about how allies and qualification units can help us. It is true that we do not share keywords therefore they cannot obtain bonuses, but I have met some heroes who can help us.

The brayshaman (100p): with his spell to move a unit 2d6 towards us he can improve our lack of movement.

The PlaguePriest Skaven (85p): it is a priest therefore it can be put the prayer that the 6 to hit do an additional mortal of the damage, we would generate 1 point of disease and 1 mortal.

And the Slaughterpriest of Khorne as an ally (110p.): This has a prayer that also makes enemy units move 1d6 and we could also put the generic to make mortals with 6 on impact.

What do you think? Which one do you think is more effective?

Edited December 21, 2021 by Nezgor

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

43 minutes ago, Nezgor said:

I've been thinking about how allies and qualification units can help us. It is true that we do not share keywords therefore they cannot obtain bonuses, but I have met some heroes who can help us.

The brayshaman (100p): with his spell to move a unit 2d6 towards us he can improve our lack of movement.

The PlaguePriest Skaven (85p): it is a priest therefore it can be put the prayer that the 6 to hit do an additional mortal of the damage, we would generate 1 point of disease and 1 mortal.

And the Slaughterpriest of Khorne as an ally (110p.): This has a prayer that also makes enemy units move 1d6 and we could also put the generic to make mortals with 6 on impact.

What do you think? Which one do you think is more effective?

I think the idea of looking at cheap priests and wizards has potential. If you just want a Mystic Shield machine, a coalition wizard can do that as well as a Maggotkin one. Although I suppose the Rotbringer Sorcerer gets that nice 5+ ward, which is a bigger deal now that Amulet of Destiny does not exist anymore.

I also like the Plague Priest, the Curse prayer is good if you have high volume attacks, which Nurgle kinda does. It's about 4 extra mortals on a unit of Blightkings if you can get it off. Thinking about it again, though, does that effect stack with the ability to give Disease tokens or do you have to choose one?

I have personally been considering the Plagueclaw as a coalition unit. It gets one shot at 3/3/-2/d6 or 2d6 against hordes per turn, but it's only 130 points now after the FAQ. You could fit two of them in a list and have a bit of a ranged threat to pressure the opponent to get in range of your slow-moving units.

I have also been considering allying in a Mindstealer Sphiranx. It's a cheap 95 point non-hero monster that comes with a bravery debuff aura and always-fights-last effect. Might be nice to have tagging along with a unit of Blightkings or something, and it can help you get battle tactics or roar at stuff.

[Smashin']

So I've been reading through the new Battletome and have come across a potential rules mistake that I think will require an FAQ.

The "Noxious Nexus" Artefact for Daemon Heroes states that the bearer counts as 2 units instead of 1 for the purposes of the Diseased battle trait.

However... correct me if I'm wrong but the number of Maggotkin units in range of an enemy makes no difference on the amount of Disease points inflicted, it's still only 1 per tick so this artefact RAW is useless. 

Edited December 22, 2021 by Smashin'

[IRRecio]

2 hours ago, Smashin' said:

So I've been reading through the new Battletome and have come across a potential rules mistake that I think will require an FAQ.

The "Noxious Nexus" Artefact for Daemon Heroes states that the bearer counts as 2 units instead of 1 for the purposes of the Diseased battle trait.

However... correct me if I'm wrong but the number of Maggotkin units in range of an enemy makes no difference on the amount of Disease points inflicted, it's still only 1 per tick so this artefact RAW is useless. 

As far as I know, the artifact does need tweaking to work. The writer for the Goonhammer first impressions article mentioned it too which I found funny.

[Iron Fist]

Hi guys!

Do you think a triple GuO list is still good?

something like:

 

"Befouling host"

GuO (big sword+flail)

GuO  (big sword+flail)

GuO (bell+bilelade)

3x10 Plaguebearers

lifeswarm

2 gnarlmaw

 

1995/2000

[Archibald]

1 hour ago, Iron Fist said:

Hi guys!

Do you think a triple GuO list is still good?

something like:

 

"Befouling host"

GuO (big sword+flail)

GuO  (big sword+flail)

GuO (bell+bilelade)

3x10 Plaguebearers

lifeswarm

2 gnarlmaw

 

1995/2000

Sounds interesting. Maybe triple-bell for max. Summoning?

Your list is VERY slow and summoning in Plaguedrones seems to be the only way to reach far away objectives.

[grucha]

Which units do you consider winners in the new book? IMO our lists should be built around Orghott, Bloab, Epidemius and either Beasts of Nurgle in Befouling Host or Pusgoyle Blightlords in Drowned Men. I got 2 ideas which I will test soon:

The core for each list are the Maggoth Lords (they got so good for their points! Incredible dmg output, very tanky and those abilities both for Bloab and Orgotths...), Epidemius (rerolls for casting and unbinding is the essence) and 30 Plaguebearers surrounding Spoilbox Scrivener which gives them +1 save and thanks to Arcane Tome can cast Fleshy Abundance giving them +1 wounds making them a 30 models horde with 90 wounds, -1 to hit in shooting, 5+ save and 5+ ward.

The first variation is little bit less tanky and mobile but with a higher dmg output. Imagine horticulus in the middle, 2 beasts and a maggoth lord on each of his flanks (he buffs beasts so nicely!) - in this formation he even improves healing from 1 do d3 each hero phase. Also since you get 3 gnarlmaws and score 4 summoning points round 1, you can summon Bilepiper right away for those lovely mortal wounds on 6 to wound.

The other list is much more mobile (you can fly 16" with blightlords round 1 and score some objectives) and more tanky.

 

So what do you think? Could that work?

Edited December 22, 2021 by grucha

[Tizianolol]

I like your first list, I wanna play something similar but with 2 GUO. I love beast of nurgle in msu they can be very solid unit to spread disease and be mobile! 

Just 1 thing: i dont think u need 30 PB , i think u can just play 20 and add a nurglins unit to set up on the opponent territory.  If he doesnt kill it its +3 CP, if he kill it, its not a big lost!!

[Archibald]

1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:

I like your first list, I wanna play something similar but with 2 GUO. I love beast of nurgle in msu they can be very solid unit to spread disease and be mobile! 

Just 1 thing: i dont think u need 30 PB , i think u can just play 20 and add a nurglins unit to set up on the opponent territory.  If he doesnt kill it its +3 CP, if he kill it, its not a big lost!!

I struggle a bit with Nurglings. They have to be set up im the 1. round, but because of the smaller boards, there is often no territory for them to appear outside of 9'' from enemy. Which leads to them coming down in some territory in front of the enemy/in the middle of the board.

[Archibald]

1 hour ago, grucha said:

Which units do you consider winners in the new book? IMO our lists should be built around Orghott, Bloab, Epidemius and either Beasts of Nurgle in Befouling Host or Pusgoyle Blightlords in Drowned Men. I got 2 ideas which I will test soon:

The core for each list are the Maggoth Lords (they got so good for their points! Incredible dmg output, very tanky and those abilities both for Bloab and Orgotths...), Epidemius (rerolls for casting and unbinding is the essence) and 30 Plaguebearers surrounding Spoilbox Scrivener which gives them +1 save and thanks to Arcane Tome can cast Fleshy Abundance giving them +1 wounds making them a 30 models horde with 90 wounds, -1 to hit in shooting, 5+ save and 5+ ward.

The first variation is little bit less tanky and mobile but with a higher dmg output. Imagine horticulus in the middle, 2 beasts and a maggoth lord on each of his flanks (he buffs beasts so nicely!) - in this formation he even improves healing from 1 do d3 each hero phase. Also since you get 3 gnarlmaws and score 4 summoning points round 1, you can summon Bilepiper right away for those lovely mortal wounds on 6 to wound.

The other list is much more mobile (you can fly 16" with blightlords round 1 and score some objectives) and more tanky.

 

So what do you think? Could that work?

Epidemus: i think that you habe to build a list for him to make him worth his points. That means GUOs and Plaguebearers to role more dices.

[Hannibal]

12 hours ago, Iron Fist said:

Hi guys!

Do you think a triple GuO list is still good?

something like:

 

"Befouling host"

GuO (big sword+flail)

GuO  (big sword+flail)

GuO (bell+bilelade)

3x10 Plaguebearers

lifeswarm

2 gnarlmaw

 

1995/2000

I think that GUOs are heavily overcosted. I honestly can´t see a reason that I have to field one. On damage per points basis they offer poor melee presence (though they are one of the few rend -2 units in our book which might be important based on your meta), they are mediocre wizards and I can hardly see their support role.

That beeing said you can tool out one (like any other demon general) to spread out some mortal wounds in the shooting phase, though rather short ranged.

Have in mind that you can get a Gargant instead of that second GUO!

OR Belakor which is even less expensive than a second GUO. Our book offers some kind of debuffing / denial, therefore Belakor might be a good choice if you like to go that route.

 

6 hours ago, grucha said:

Which units do you consider winners in the new book?

I did some maths and find out that

Orgott, Morbidex, Blightkings, Plaguedrones, Pusgoyle Blightlords and Beasts of Nurgle are – in that order – the best damage dealers we have (ONLY COUNTING BASE MELEE ATTACKS, so no additional MW by special rules). Maths was done on a damage per 100 point basis against a 4+ save.

These are also the most ressilient units (though in a different order), meaning you can´t go wrong with any of these units.

 

On 12/21/2021 at 2:26 PM, Nezgor said:

I've been thinking about how allies and qualification units can help us. It is true that we do not share keywords therefore they cannot obtain bonuses, but I have met some heroes who can help us.

The brayshaman (100p): with his spell to move a unit 2d6 towards us he can improve our lack of movement.

Good call here!

On 12/21/2021 at 2:26 PM, Nezgor said:

The PlaguePriest Skaven (85p): it is a priest therefore it can be put the prayer that the 6 to hit do an additional mortal of the damage, we would generate 1 point of disease and 1 mortal.

No, it won´t. If two effects are triggered by the same trigger, you have to dicide for one.

If one of these effects is an opposing one, the active player decides which effect takes place.

Nevertheless, if you can get a MW in the melee phase opposed to the 50% chance of a MW at the end of the round, which one would you choose?

you can also enhance a blob of Plaguebearers with that combo:

• once per game +1 attack command trait
• Scrivener´s +1 attack ability
• Bilepiper´s MW on 6 to wound ability

This alone wil give you 0.25 MW per fighting Plaguenbearer (which is still awful compared to Kruelboyz) and that general prayer will further increase this to around 0.75 MW per PLaguebearer.

But it´s costly and needs lots of setup to work. To much ifs for me.

 

On 12/21/2021 at 2:26 PM, Nezgor said:

What do you think? Which one do you think is more effective?

I´m going to get a second unit of Chaos Warhounds soon because they are the best screen you can get. 10 models on large bases for 80 points that automatically run 6" and already offer high MOV? Yes please!

Edited December 22, 2021 by Hannibal

[Tizianolol]

The interesting question about nurglins is: what happen if I have no space to deploy then during my first turn?