AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

[spenson]

1 hour ago, Voodoom said:

I should have added that I'm playing smaller scale battles currently (1000 points) so Glottkin is not an option for me, but yeah, on him it would be better.

I mean you can fit glotkin and 2x10 plaguebearers in 1k points. Will it be good? No. Will it be fun? Also no. But you can do it.

[TheMuphinMan]

6 minutes ago, spenson said:

I mean you can fit glotkin and 2x10 plaguebearers in 1k points. Will it be good? No. Will it be fun? Also no. But you can do it.

or you got glottkin, 2 beasts in the subfaction that makes beasts battleline and I want to say plaguepriest but its now 85 points so I guess either gors, ungors, chaos spawn or some endless spell

[Voodoom]

34 minutes ago, spenson said:

I mean you can fit glotkin and 2x10 plaguebearers in 1k points. Will it be good? No. Will it be fun? Also no. But you can do it.

Indeed I can.

But at 1000 points, I'm more interested in this :

 

Blessed Sons

- Lord of Affliction (Overpowering Stench, Arcane Tome : Rancid Visitations)

- 2 Blightlords

- 5 Blightkings

- Morbidex Twiceborn

1000 points total.

The LoA deepstrikes with the Blightlords and they attempt to disturb ennemy shooting units and nuke some horde with Rancid Visitations, while the rest of the army march up the board.

Morbidex Twiceborn should be pretty annoying to remove at this battle scale with his ridiculous healing.

[TheMuphinMan]

If you went up to 1250 you could go glottkin bloab 2 beast and just see if how many times you can get bloabs spell to trigger

[Grimrock]

Ok, got a test game and decided to try out a more balanced list with models I mostly own so I got a better feel for the different components. I ran a befouling host with:

Great Unclean One - 495
- blade and bell
- witherstave
- -1 to hit trait
- stream of corruption

Bloab Rotspawned - 300
- rancid visitations

20 plaguebearers - 300
5 Blight Kings - 250
5 Blight Kings- 250

3 Nurglings - 105
3 Plague Drones - 200

Lifeswarm - 65
Burning Head - 20

I was up against a S2D army running as desploilers with a khorne prince, Be'lakor, tzeentch sorcerer, chaos warriors, marauders, knights, untamed beasts, and a warshrine. My thoughts on the new book so far:

- Diseases are pretty fantastic, and running the witherstave made them amazing. It seems uninspiring on paper, but the chip damage made my opponent use pretty much every heroic action after the first turn on healing important models. When the witherstave made it near units with 7 disease counters it was brutal. Tracking was definitely a bit of a pain, but it's not too terrible if you put a token on units for the first point and then use a dice for any additional. That way after you roll for the mortal wounds you just take away the dice and leave the token
- Blightkings are legitimately scary. So hilariously tanky and when they hit back with 25 attacks, rend 1 and disease counters it can be pretty gross. They don't need any support now and can happily waddle along and take objectives all on their own. 250 is a lot but I do think they're worth it, at least for 1 or two units
- A unit of plague drones was pretty impressive overall. 21 attacks in shooting is nothing to sniff at and 25 in combat is nice, they can really lay out disease counters like no one else. The reduced range on their death heads does suck and it was pretty tricky to maneuver, but I think they definitely have a place
- I don't think the army really needs the lifeswarm anymore. Having 2 wound plaguebearers meant it wasn't resurrecting very well and the d3 healing everywhere with locus of fecundity meant it wasn't really needed for anything else
- Bloab was so great. -1 to cast for enemies and +1 to cast came in handy every turn and he just does so much work in combat. Solo'd Be'lakor like a champ and just healed his way back up to full afterwards. All the maggoth lords are going to be so much fun
- The GUO was fantastic. It sucked losing the +1 to cast with the blade and I think he got off like... one spell all game but he's just so tanky and can do soo much damage now. The bell/blade combo can do amazing work and when he went all out attack/finest hour it was brutal. Tosses out disease counters really well with the nurglings and that fat base with the witherstave does real work. I'm super happy that they didn't just nerf the bell/blade combo into the ground like I thought they would
- Speed 4 definitely sucks. It worked out for me because I ended up playing survival of the fittest, but in a standard long edge deployment it would have been much tougher. Going to need some more testing to see if it becomes a serious problem
- Summoning was... fine. I stuck both trees on the back edge which kept them running but that meant I lost out on the chance for the battle tactic. I didn't actually need to summon anything but I could have gotten drones on turn 3 or a beast/sloppity/spoilpox on turn 2. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Grimrock

[DrJekyll325]

These points changes have really taken the wind out of my sails for starting a Maggotkin Path to Glory army.  The 600pt force I've been working on (Lord of Blights, 2 x 5 Blightkings, Sorcerer) now stands at a whopping 795 pts!

That's okay, I guess I can just add another Rotbringers unit and start at 1000 points. Wait, what do you mean none of them will fit in...

[Frowny]

I think people are underestimating how good the disease points will be.

If you can put a single one on a unit T1, it will never leave, and you will get 5 turns with it for an average of 5 wounds. Just from that. Little heroes will be on deaths door or dead just from that, and small units at half strength. True it takes a while bit that's what the 5+ ward is for. 

It seems pretty easy to get to 7 disease rolling on a 3+for choice units too which is quite a bit of damage. Just from the mortals.

For comparison, the ogres charge rule will put out on average far less mortal wounds as an allegiance ability than does this one, yet is definitely solid.

Also, i know ppl on here dislike how slow this tome made nurgle, but i think it's fitting. It really felt odd that they were faster than the other gods... Just not thematic at all. Like tanky slaanesh or slow sturdy elves or blunt hammer tzeentch without wizards. It may have been strong too, but this version is way way more thematically nurgle for me.

 

I also think it will be reasonably strong, just in a different way. I think it will struggle against gargants with low burst DPS bit do quite well against the big guy + support lists (tzeentch archeon, Natash). Stacking 7 on one of them each turn seems pretty easy, and the disease will take out the support almost incidentally. There are also several excellent spells for totally neutering big targets. Cloying quagmire seems excellent and an auto take.

[frostfire]

Lord of Affliction-210

-Overpowering Stench

-Rustfang

Festus-150

Epidemius-145

Bloab-300

 

20PB-300

20PB-300

20PB-300

Nurglings-105

Nurglings-105

 

Spellportal-70

 

Looks viable actually. Using the models currently popular except Epidemius. But I really like the Tallyman now giving casting rerolls, which make casting more reliable for Bloab and Festus.

[Bululu]

Tbh only thing i dont like is that for 50 point each, the blightkings needed something more, for example 5 wounds to count as 10 on an objective or rend2 or dmg2, specially the 5 wounds, what objective can they hold if you can just move and grab an objective with a cheap 10 man unit without doing anything.

[Tizianolol]

On 12/11/2021 at 6:11 PM, Archibald said:

I love the new book.

Had my first game today, using all the information i got from the reviews.

Two wounds (possibly 3 wounds) on Plaguebearer Host is f***ing awesome. The hold so much ground.

Diseae rule was very thematic and so much fun, especially with the Witherstaff (+1 to disease roll) and the wheel also on +1 to disease roll. Often hab 5-7 disease points on a unit.
 

Plaguedrones seem nessessary for the movement. And their shootinh attack is very nice.

What happen if you got 2 wounds allocate to Pb when the spell is up and after priority its your turn again? Pb returns to 2 wounds and a model is slain?

[Gesundheit]

Exactly this.

20 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Pb returns to 2 wounds and a model is slain?

 

[elescapo]

2 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

Exactly this.

This one of the reasons why in AoS we count up 'wounds allocated' rather than count down 'wounds remaining'.  The Wounds stat can change on the fly and the rules don't fall apart.

[Jean 2Valdr]

Hi everyone !

Question : If i make an army with a mortal general and Rotigus  who is also treated as a general with his warmaster trait. Can i benefit from Befouling Host and get Two Feculent Gnarlmaw at the starts of the battle ?

Thank you.

[Grimrock]

7 hours ago, Jean 2Valdr said:

Hi everyone !

Question : If i make an army with a mortal general and Rotigus  who is also treated as a general with his warmaster trait. Can i benefit from Befouling Host and get Two Feculent Gnarlmaw at the starts of the battle ?

Thank you.

As far as I can tell yes. The rule says he 'is treated as a general' and befouling host says 'A Befouling Host army that has a DAEMON general'. Since it doesn't say something like 'If the model you picked to be your general is a DAEMON' I think you're in the clear.

I got another practice game in. This time I ran a Filthbringers list and put everything in a Battle Regiment:

Orghotts Daemonspew - 300
Rot Coven - 360
rotbringer 1 as the general
- Overpowering Stench
- Arcane Tome
- Rancid Visitations
rotbringer 2
- Cloying Quagmire
rotbringer 3
- Gift of Disease

20 Plaguebearers - 300
20 Plaguebearers - 300
5 Blightkings - 250
3 Plague Drones - 200
2 Pusgoyle Blightlords - 220

Umbral Spellportal - 70

I wanted to try out the arcane tome/umbral portal/rancid visitations combo I saw on Goonhammer, get a feel for another maggoth lord, and see if I liked the blightlords or not. A few thoughts:

- Again, disease is solid. Gift of Disease splashed around points really well but it really kicked in once the protracted combats started. One roll at a 4+ doesn't sound like much, but when the opponent starts the turn within 3" of you you're pretty much guaranteed to get 3 disease counters before you even start attacking. 2-3 mortal wounds every turn to most units in the opponent's army starts to add up quickly
- I liked Orghotts, and that 3+ native save on him is bonkers, but I think I'm leaning towards Bloab. The big thing is that Orghotts wants to fight big enemy monsters, but against them the additional 4 attacks at rend 1 generally don't do much (because rend 1). The big rend 2 attacks that are common to both Bloab and Orghotts are where the real damage seems to come from. Since Bloab can do more in the turns he's not in combat I'm leaning in that direction
- Getting two casts (arcane tome) at a +3 (Rot Coven), putting down a portal and then casting Rancid Visitations through it seems pretty broken. It's the only overly strong thing in the book I've found and I wouldn't be surprised if it gets a nerf somehow. I'm guessing Rancid Visitations gets changed down to a 3+ or 4+ for the mortal wounds, it's mind blowingly good at a 2+
- The pusgoyles didn't really blow me away this game. The chip mortals on the charge are nice, but the ranged attack on the plague drones is just so so good. Either way the speed 8 on both units is super helpful for the army
- Blightkings are dumb. I don't know how, but they just seem to take the most ridiculous damage and then shred everything in return. I think the next game I play I'm going to try throwing 20-25 on the table and see how it goes. They don't have the numbers to hold points super well, but they seem to win every fight they get into so far so even if your opponent sneaks up and grabs a point they're going to lose it on the next turn

Edited December 13, 2021 by Grimrock

[ibel]

Il will try this:

Glootkin

LoAf (General) - Owelwelming + Whiterstaff

2x5 BK

1x10 Plaguebearer

And then...

2 x 2 Pusgoyle

or

1x2 Pusgoyle

1x1 Pusgoyle and 1x Nurglings

But i Need the new Warscroll so my first try would be later this jear and not today.

EDIT: What do u Thing could the glootkin be the Answer against the Incoming 11 DragonArmy ?!

Edited December 13, 2021 by ibel

[hurben]

1 hour ago, ibel said:

LoAf (General) - Owelwelming + Whiterstaff

You can't use Witherstarve on the LoA because he's no more a Daemon.

[ibel]

1 minute ago, hurben said:

You can't use Witherstarve on the LoA because he's no more a Daemon.

No more ?!?! Oh okay. thats a Problem. But Maybe i take something other.

[hurben]

To my side, I'll try this: 

Quote

Subfaction: 
Filthbringers
Prized Sorcery

[Genera] Lord of Affliction (210) **
[C. trait] Overwhelming Stench (7p cannot issue or receive CP)
[Artefact] Slipthorn Helm (Ward 4+)

GUO (495) ** - Massive Bilesword - Bileblade
[Artefact] The Whitherstarve (7p within +1 to disease rolls)
- Fleshy Abundance (+1W to a daemon unit)
- Favored Poxes (-1 hit, wound, save)

Gutrot (170) **

Rotbinger Sorcerer (140) *
- Gift of Disease (21p +1 disease to 7p within units)
- Magnificent Buboes (21p -1 to hit)

Rotbinger Sorcerer (140) *
- Blade of putrefaction (14p friendly unit proc disease on 5 & 6 unmodified)
- Plague Squall (7 dices, on each 6 = 1 disease)

Rotbinger Sorcerer (140) *
- Rancid Visitations (7p each model in the 7p of the caster get 1MW on 2+)
- Coyling Quagmire (14p roll a dice if greater than save -2 to run and charge)
_______

10x Plaguebearers (150)  ***
10x Plaguebearers(150)  ***
5x Putrid Blightking (250) **
_______

Umbrall Spell portal (70)
Soulscream Bridge (70)
_______

Warlord **
Vanguard *
Hunters of the Heartlands ***
_______
Enhancements:
+1 artefact +1 CP (Warlord)
+1 sort / sorcier (Vanguard)
_______

1985 pts

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by hurben

[ibel]

54 minutes ago, hurben said:

To my side, I'll try this: 

Very Nize but:

1. For what is the Bridge? Just 4 Movement?

2. Same do u think LoAf ?!

3. Did they FAQ the Enhacement Sorcerer for just ONE Spell for 1 Sorcerer ?!

Didnt u think u need some more Dmg ?!?!

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

For anyone trying to get into Nurgle cheaply and easily (like me), this list is an option:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Nurgle
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
The Glottkin (700)*
Lord of Blights (150)*
Lord of Afflictions (210)*

Battleline
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*

Units
2 x Pusgoyle Blightlords (220)*
2 x Pusgoyle Blightlords (220)*

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 101
Drops: 1

Basically, it's two Start Collecting! Mortals boxes and the Glottkin. You will need an extra Lord of Afflictions or Blightlord, too. Alternatively, you can get a unit of Nurglings or a Beast of Nurgle.

Just 17 models to paint and you should be coming out of it pretty cheaply, too! Although you will probably still want a Gnarlmaw and a unit of Plaguebearers to summon.

[Bululu]

2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

For anyone trying to get into Nurgle cheaply and easily (like me), this list is an option:

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Nurgle
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
The Glottkin (700)*
Lord of Blights (150)*
Lord of Afflictions (210)*

Battleline
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*

Units
2 x Pusgoyle Blightlords (220)*
2 x Pusgoyle Blightlords (220)*

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 101
Drops: 1

Basically, it's two Start Collecting! Mortals boxes and the Glottkin. You will need an extra Lord of Afflictions or Blightlord, too. Alternatively, you can get a unit of Nurglings or a Beast of Nurgle.

Just 17 models to paint and you should be coming out of it pretty cheaply, too! Although you will probably still want a Gnarlmaw and a unit of Plaguebearers to summon.

Yes i agree, i was thinking y 1 LOA and 2+1 blightlords and umbral spell portal, so sometimes you can portal+flamethrower spell to destroy some nasty sentinel unit or something of that kind, i would suggest buying 1 SC and 1 Vanguard so you get some cheap summoning heroe and plaguebeares

Edited December 13, 2021 by Bululu

[Hannibal]

You can also get a more diverse army by using the SC Nurgle Daemons in tandem with a start collecting Maggotkin (if you can still get one) and/or one of the new Nurgle Vanguard boxed sets. 

 

—-----------

From what I heard so far, things I like about the new book:

1) Really it's the first time my model collection becomes more expensive points wise. 

2) similar to 1) my beloved army is now an elite force, something I wanted to possess for years. 

3) GUOs and other big guys are way more offensive, meaning there is a chance to at least do some damage.

4) maggot lords seem to be playable now. 

5) There is at least a chance to play the magic game right now. 

That's about it. Everything else is a bummer for me. 

A) why coalition units if they can't benefit from the armies special rules? Big bummer here for long time model collectors. 

B) Speed4 really? 

C) Low model count always has been the Bane of my Nurgle existence. Can't see how to win the objective game right now. 

D) That 5+ ward seems to be part of the allegiance abilities and not part of the war scrolls, meaning my Plague bearers are no more suited for the Legion of the First Prince. WAIT! There is still that 5+ ward command trait in LotfP, isn't it? 

Nevertheless I can't wait to get my copy of the book and play some games. 

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Hannibal

[AmonRa]

I'm actually okay with most of these changes. They seem to play like Ogors a bit now though with far more resistance.

My big worry is how to handle gargants as I'm not seeing any good counters if anyone has any thoughts.

[peasant]

4 minutes ago, AmonRa said:

I'm actually okay with most of these changes. They seem to play like Ogors a bit now though with far more resistance.

My big worry is how to handle gargants as I'm not seeing any good counters if anyone has any thoughts.

Yeah I cant figure how to deal with them, but against melee armies we are stronger now

[Bululu]

10 minutes ago, AmonRa said:

I'm actually okay with most of these changes. They seem to play like Ogors a bit now though with far more resistance.

My big worry is how to handle gargants as I'm not seeing any good counters if anyone has any thoughts.

well ogors count as 2 for normal units and 10 for monsters so they  get that extra punch on the objective game. Nurgle could have recieved same treatment