AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

[TheVenerableBede]

So after much deliberation I pulled the trigger and bought 3 Start Collecting boxes.

Of Ironjawz 😔

Feel a bit dirty, but then, Orcs were my first army back in the late 80s until the Real of Chaos books came out and I went down the path of the Dark Gods.

Looking forward to a new Maggotkin book in the not too distant future, so I can play them competitively again. It would cause me too much emotional pain to run S2D with all units Nurgle marked, and not be able to take advantage of those lovely buffs in a Nurgle allegiance army.

[TheVenerableBede]

BTW I couldn't quite catch it on the GMG review, but is the Nurgle S2D battalion 7 units, no more, no less?

Or up to 7, or 7 minimum?

I hope for AoS 3.0 they ditch the Gods' magic numbers. They create too many artificial restrictions.

[grucha]

18 minutes ago, TheVenerableBede said:

BTW I couldn't quite catch it on the GMG review, but is the Nurgle S2D battalion 7 units, no more, no less?

Or up to 7, or 7 minimum?

I hope for AoS 3.0 they ditch the Gods' magic numbers. They create too many artificial restrictions.

Exactly 7 mortal slaves to darkness nurgle units and exactly 1 mortal slaves to darkness hero.

[Dracan]

 

Quick question about the plague touched battalion. 

Its says its for both s2d and nurgle alliance. It requires mortal nurgle units.

Does this mean... i can take 7 blightking units and 1 harbinger and take them in slaves to darkness army and everyone gains s2d keyword???!!

If the units do indead gain the S2D keyword then everyone benefits from all the buffs for S2D, which is huge incentive to play nurgle in S2D then.
thinking of following list

1    160    Harbinger of decay
2    110    Chaos sorceror lord
3    140    festus
4    110    chaos lord
5    300    maruaders
6    320    kings
7    320    kings
8    170    warshrine
    140    Grashnak
    50    CP
    180    Plague touched
    2000    Pts
 

if i am correct...  in new slaves to darkness book you could run kings with

3+ rerolling save with 5+++ followed by 6+++ 
able to get +1 to hit 
able to get rerolling hit and wounds
able to get -1 to be hit
able to get 6s to wound does 2 damage

able to fight twice
able to make opponent fight last

Edited December 9, 2019 by Dracan

[sal4m4nd3r]

the battalion requires NURGLE SLAVES TO DARKNESS units. No rotbringers can go in the plaguetouched warband. 

[Dracan]

Bummer, thought it was NURGLE MORTAL units

[Crowvus]

I actually think a Nurgle army with glotkin, harbinger, warshrine, chaos sorcerer, maybe chaos lord a ton of marauders the endless spell that gives +1 to attack and some purchased command points could be amazing.  

Marauders trigger blades of putrefaction on 4s, minimum charge range of 8 inches, average charge of 10 or 11, 5+ save, 5+ save and 6+ save so preventing 65ish % regular damage and 45% mortal wounds plus glotkin spell giving them 2 wounds a piece, and they each get 3 attacks.  That's potentially 120 attacks, 60 mortal wounds on average and they're hitting on 2s.  Oh and chaos lord letting them attack again.  Get at least 3 max units of them still seems great even for 900 points total.  Again though really needs a ton of command points. 

Doing the math in my head but seems doable?

[TheVenerableBede]

4 minutes ago, Crowvus said:

I actually think a Nurgle army with glotkin, harbinger, warshrine, chaos sorcerer, maybe chaos lord a ton of marauders the endless spell that gives +1 to attack and some purchased command points could be amazing.  

Marauders trigger blades of putrefaction on 4s, minimum charge range of 8 inches, average charge of 10 or 11, 5+ save, 5+ save and 6+ save so preventing 65ish % regular damage and 45% mortal wounds plus glotkin spell giving them 2 wounds a piece, and they each get 3 attacks.  That's potentially 120 attacks, 60 mortal wounds on average and they're hitting on 2s.  Oh and chaos lord letting them attack again.  Get at least 3 max units of them still seems great even for 900 points total.  Again though really needs a ton of command points. 

Doing the math in my head but seems doable?

What's the source of your second +1 to hit for the marauders?

[Crowvus]

Just now, TheVenerableBede said:

What's the source of your second +1 to hit for the marauders?

If they have 10 or more models they just get it.  20 or more they get -1 rend.  They cards are downloadable from the New Zealand version of Games Workshop website

[Zplash]

43 minutes ago, Crowvus said:

If they have 10 or more models they just get it.  20 or more they get -1 rend.  They cards are downloadable from the New Zealand version of Games Workshop website

That's one +1hit but where is the second? Can't see it too. No grashnak in your list. 

And keep in mind you are only allowed to buy 1 extra CP. So you cant use both CA per turn. Additionally you will likely need CPs for battleshock for your marauders. 

So it's better to choose one of the 2 CA models and if you want to be offense you take glotkin. 

Still with marauders spam very likely one of our strongest list, which is just awful for a nurgle player with nearly 4000 points of maggot king models...

 

Ps: if you update your aos app you have all new scrolls on your phone very easy

Edited December 10, 2019 by Zplash

[Crowvus]

3 hours ago, Zplash said:

That's one +1hit but where is the second? Can't see it too. No grashnak in your list. 

And keep in mind you are only allowed to buy 1 extra CP. So you cant use both CA per turn. Additionally you will likely need CPs for battleshock for your marauders. 

So it's better to choose one of the 2 CA models and if you want to be offense you take glotkin. 

Still with marauders spam very likely one of our strongest list, which is just awful for a nurgle player with nearly 4000 points of maggot king models...

 

Ps: if you update your aos app you have all new scrolls on your phone very easy

The Eight-fold doom sigil.  This new endless spell gives the other +1.  

True, all about management.   And I do mention it is command point hungry and might be an issue.   And remember battalions give command points so its possible to start with more than the 1 purchased one if we have the points to allow for it.  Oh and don't forget we can always take Aetherquartz Brooch to help out a little.  

[Dreadmund]

18 minutes ago, Crowvus said:

The Eight-fold doom sigil.  This new endless spell gives the other +1. 

That gives +1 Attacks, not +1 to hit.

[sal4m4nd3r]

Running this list today:

Glott with blades

Harbinger with witherstave and grandfathers blessing

Spume

Chaos Sorcerer Lord

Chaos Warshrine

2x 40 marauders

10 blightkings. 

1970/2000

I had to drop 10 blightkings to fit the CSL and warshrine. Now that marauders are bonkers good all focus is on them with the 10 kings and spume acting as a distraction carnifex. The warshrine and CSL combo allows me to make one unit if marauders 4+ rerollable/5++/6++ and reroll all wounds. The other would ONLY be reroll all hits and wounds. I feel like im leaving money on the table by not having the Chieftain (12" bubble of death frenzy) in the list. But This list is SO cp hungry. Not sure what I would take out to fit him in..

I refuse to use the demon prince command ability until the FAQ. It is simply to broken to exist. I REALLY hope it is faq'd to 1 mw per 6... but I guarantee GW faqs it to ANY hits of 6.. meaning it would be capped at 1d3 mortals per phase.. making it worthless. 

I'm running glott because I love the model and the lore so much. I also spent an assload of time converting him to the dickens. I do have a SICK reflect damage list if they dont dont change the demon prince command at all. 

Edited December 10, 2019 by sal4m4nd3r

[TheVenerableBede]

The DP ability is not broken at all, use it as written: every six to hit is D3 mortals back.

Nurgle players just think it is because we have been used to such a tame battletome in terms of output.  Compare with some of the other modern battletomes and it fits in perfectly.

I like to describe our battletome as a Hugh Grant battletome - it's like: um, awfully sorry to bother you, would mind terribly if I um, perhaps, possibly did a mortal wound to you?

[Dreadmund]

14 minutes ago, TheVenerableBede said:

I like to describe our battletome as a Hugh Grant battletome - it's like: um, awfully sorry to bother you, would mind terribly if I um, perhaps, possibly did a mortal wound to you?

The accuracy... it hurts...

[Frowny]

6 to hit is d3 mortals back is Indeed outrageously broken. Especially on anything with a reasonable save (like warriors with a built in 4+ with rr.) Or with cheap per wound price (like marauders)

A unit that hits and wounds on 3+/3+ and with -1rend (elite infantry level)  will do more damage to themselves than their target against random chaos warriors, even without the reroll.

The math gets even more outrageous when they also reroll saves or against anything with worse offensive stats. It's probably possible to muscle through with multidamage attacks but those tend to be on big monsters which are often expensive per wound, so you still probably take more damage that. 

This is all without the target even hitting back. It is nearly impossible to make a profit attacking a unit with that buff alone. 

[TheVenerableBede]

10 minutes ago, Frowny said:

6 to hit is d3 mortals back is Indeed outrageously broken. Especially on anything with a reasonable save (like warriors with a built in 4+ with rr.) Or with cheap per wound price (like marauders)

A unit that hits and wounds on 3+/3+ and with -1rend (elite infantry level)  will do more damage to themselves than their target against random chaos warriors, even without the reroll.

The math gets even more outrageous when they also reroll saves or against anything with worse offensive stats. It's probably possible to muscle through with multidamage attacks but those tend to be on big monsters which are often expensive per wound, so you still probably take more damage that. 

This is all without the target even hitting back. It is nearly impossible to make a profit attacking a unit with that buff alone. 

I don't think anything that attacks Chaos Warriors will worry about them hitting back.

What it does do is potentially turn a single unit of Marauders into a Death Star if you use a Nurgle Warshrine on them too.  And get Blades off.   Stick a LoB CA on them too for more fun, if you have one spare.

BTW do you know what's best about the DP's CA?  It doesn't specify Combat Phase or Melee Weapons.  That means if you are playing a cowardly shooting army like Greywater Fastness, they'll be dropping like flies too as missile troops are usually 1 wound.

[relic456]

3 minutes ago, TheVenerableBede said:

BTW do you know what's best about the DP's CA?  It doesn't specify Combat Phase or Melee Weapons.  That means if you are playing a cowardly shooting army like Greywater Fastness, they'll be dropping like flies too as missile troops are usually 1 wound.

Oh man I love this. Imagine a gunline of Freeguild Handgunners, taking aim at the Chaos Marauders running at them from the horizon. They take aim, fire, and as the Marauders fall in droves, there's suddenly a loud buzzing in the air. Turns out the Marauders had Nurgle's Blessing and those sores and wounds actually contained trillions of plague bearing insects that are now zooming towards them at ridiculous speed. Before they have a chance to reload, Freeguild gunners are dropping left and right!

[Crowvus]

6 hours ago, Dreadmund said:

That gives +1 Attacks, not +1 to hit.

Oh dang, I read that wrong.  That's still pretty good though!

[Lord Krungharr]

So what I'm gathering is the Nurgle Daemon Prince from StD has a command ability to make a unit cause mortal wounds to an enemy on a save of 6?  And that can be done from enemy shooting?

If so that's crazy, and I fully expect it to be Erratad, but also fully expect to see it on the table everywhere until such time.  Really makes me want to keep using my four magma cannon Azgorh army, no saves from there!

[relic456]

4 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

So what I'm gathering is the Nurgle Daemon Prince from StD has a command ability to make a unit cause mortal wounds to an enemy on a save of 6?  And that can be done from enemy shooting?

If so that's crazy, and I fully expect it to be Erratad, but also fully expect to see it on the table everywhere until such time.  Really makes me want to keep using my four magma cannon Azgorh army, no saves from there!

Close, unmodified hits of 6 against the buffed unit cause D3 MWs back to the attacker.

[Frowny]

Yes. It's amazing because it is hits of 6. Every comparable ability is either 4+ mw on death, so you are definitely losing models, or unmodified 6 on save, so you are at least rolling to save. The fact that it is before the save roll and even before the wound roll means that the damage might not get done, unlike all previous incarnations. add to that it's d3 mw and I can't see it not getting faqed. The nurgle battalion is also amazing for similar reasons, with the 6 to wound causing damage back. All of them are earlier in the damage sequence then we've ever seen before and by extension, highly abusable with diffcult to wound targets. 

Even if it only triggered once per unit it would still be playable, albeit a bit weak. 3 units against your front line is likely 3d3 mws back, which is passable although low 

[TheVenerableBede]

12 hours ago, Frowny said:

Yes. It's amazing because it is hits of 6. Every comparable ability is either 4+ mw on death, so you are definitely losing models, or unmodified 6 on save, so you are at least rolling to save. The fact that it is before the save roll and even before the wound roll means that the damage might not get done, unlike all previous incarnations. add to that it's d3 mw and I can't see it not getting faqed. The nurgle battalion is also amazing for similar reasons, with the 6 to wound causing damage back. All of them are earlier in the damage sequence then we've ever seen before and by extension, highly abusable with diffcult to wound targets. 

Even if it only triggered once per unit it would still be playable, albeit a bit weak. 3 units against your front line is likely 3d3 mws back, which is passable although low 

The battalion ability I thought was a bit dumb because it directly clashes with stage 5 on the wheel.

[frostfire]

DP 210

CSL on foot 110

CL on foot 110

Harbinger 170 

 

20 Warriors  400

20 Marauders 150

20 Marauders 150

10 Horsemen 180

 

Warshrine 170

Warshrine 170

 

Plaguetouched 180

That’s what I came up with after StD preview. Both nurgle and StD allegiances are good.

Really take our resilience to a new level.

What do you think?

[sal4m4nd3r]

6 hours ago, frostfire said:

DP 210

CSL on foot 110

CL on foot 110

Harbinger 170 

 

20 Warriors  400

20 Marauders 150

20 Marauders 150

10 Horsemen 180

 

Warshrine 170

Warshrine 170

 

Plaguetouched 180

That’s what I came up with after StD preview. Both nurgle and StD allegiances are good.

Really take our resilience to a new level.

What do you think?

Harbinger is only 160 points. Confused on the double warshrine. It doesnt stack. Dropping one gives you 180 points to play with. I think you would get better use out of one big block of maruaders then two smaller ones for SURE.