AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Quarmiel]

Hasn't he?

GS with familiars 180

GS on disc 180

GS 160

Edited June 24, 2019 by Quarmiel

[Asimov]

On the warscroll builder the 3 versions are available, but both version not on disc cost 180... Looks like they got (at least this one) the version without fammiliars wrong. 

All the other units and endless spells are up to date with GHB 2019 from what I could tell

Edited June 24, 2019 by Asimov

[Luke1705]

27 minutes ago, Caspeur said:

The Warhammer-community warscroll builder hasn't had an update yet. He is 160 in GH19 and in the AoS app "Azyr" though.

That is the best news I've heard all week. My tzeentch list was at 2020 when I thought he was still 180.

[Caspeur]

1 minute ago, Luke1705 said:

That is the best news I've heard all week. My tzeentch list was at 2020 when I thought he was still 180.

Haha that's funny! Would you like to share your list? Always curious to see what people come up with!

[Luke1705]

Just now, Caspeur said:

Haha that's funny! Would you like to share your list? Always curious to see what people come up with!

Kairos

Gaunt Summoner

Tzaangor Shaman

3 x 10 Acolytes

9 Skyfires

9 Enlightened

[Caspeur]

Just now, Luke1705 said:

Kairos

Gaunt Summoner

Tzaangor Shaman

3 x 10 Acolytes

9 Skyfires

9 Enlightened

Ouch! You really like flying Tzaangors don't you? 😅

[Luke1705]

1 minute ago, Caspeur said:

Ouch! You really like flying Tzaangors don't you? 😅

More like super duper alpha strike. I also play Deepkin Eels and Khorne Tyrants of Blood

[Caspeur]

1 minute ago, Luke1705 said:

More like super duper alpha strike. I also play Deepkin Eels and Khorne Tyrants of Blood

How's running 9 enlightened working for you though? I find it to be a bit too fiddly sometimes to get all of them in combat while still being in range of the shaman

[Cauthon]

Caspeur I wrote this list with the changes you were talking about. Not sure where i stand with the gaunt summoner with familiars now. 

 

Gs w/ familiars- Arch sorcerer

glimpse the future, fold reality

 

Tzaangor shammy- fold reality

Tzaangor shammy- windthief charm, bolt of tzeentch

Tzaangor shammy- bolt of tzeentch  

 

Pinks x 10- fold reality

Pinks x 10- arcane transformation

Pinks x 10- unchecked mutation

 

tzaangors x 20

 

Enlightened on disc x 6

 

wildfire taurus

balewind vortex

 

Will set up a game with my bud for this week sometime. 

[Landohammer]

Gaunt Familiar aside, other notables changes (at least for me)

-Cogs went up 20, which puts it at a whopping 80pts. Spell Portal, Swords, Nids, Shackles and  other favorites also went up. However, note that Balewind Vortex remains at 40pts. So this makes a regular GS + Balewind still a relatively good deal. 

-Soul Grinder went down 10pts. Not a huge fan of the model but at 250pts this guy is pretty effective. 

Also note that Azyr isn't necessarily 100% updated. The Tzeentch section appears done but the Sylvaneth section hasn't been touched yet. (not sure if related to their pending codex or what)

 

[Luke1705]

29 minutes ago, Caspeur said:

How's running 9 enlightened working for you though? I find it to be a bit too fiddly sometimes to get all of them in combat while still being in range of the shaman

Wholly within is annoying, but at least it’s 12” range.

The big kicker for me is having 2” range on the spears. That means you can fight over the first rank of enlightened with the stuff that counts, so you should never have any enlightened that doesn’t swing at all.

Of course, doubling the output (more or less) with all of the attacks is better.

I’ve had times where one can’t make it without killing the buff, so that guy doesn’t swing. You gain more than you lose if only miss out on one. Two is worth losing the buff over (at max squad size) so long as you aren’t -1 to hit or anything like that

[Caspeur]

52 minutes ago, Cauthon said:

Caspeur I wrote this list with the changes you were talking about. Not sure where i stand with the gaunt summoner with familiars now. 

 

Gs w/ familiars- Arch sorcerer

glimpse the future, fold reality

 

Tzaangor shammy- fold reality

Tzaangor shammy- windthief charm, bolt of tzeentch

Tzaangor shammy- bolt of tzeentch  

 

Pinks x 10- fold reality

Pinks x 10- arcane transformation

Pinks x 10- unchecked mutation

 

tzaangors x 20

 

Enlightened on disc x 6

 

wildfire taurus

balewind vortex

 

Will set up a game with my bud for this week sometime. 

Let me know how it went! I'm still curious to see whether your vision on Enlightened on foot would work out, so I might try it out myself. Wildfire Taurus is an amazing idea btw, I always forget that our shammies keep the Beasts of Chaos keyword

[ThePie]

So what is the best way to run the Gaunt Summoner now?

Cheaper without familiars or pay 20 pts extra for that +1 to casting rolls?

Treacherous bond for survival or use paradoxical shield instead? Or perhaps go all out firepower and skip on survabiliy and put artifacts on other heroes?

[Caspeur]

22 minutes ago, ThePie said:

So what is the best way to run the Gaunt Summoner now?

Cheaper without familiars or pay 20 pts extra for that +1 to casting rolls?

Treacherous bond for survival or use paradoxical shield instead? Or perhaps go all out firepower and skip on survabiliy and put artifacts on other heroes?

I'm hoping the FAQ will give more clearity on the Gaunt Summoner with familiars, because right now he's kind of in a weird spot.

However, I would say that the familiars are definately worth the 20 points in my opinion. 

I always run him with Arcane Sacrifice on Pinks and a Balewind Vortex and give him the Bolt spell. The bolt and anti horde spell will then be on 33" range so he'll be able to sit back surrounded by his pool of pinks. My enemies oftenly don't get him in range, making (defensive) artefacts unnecessary.

Then again I haven't played any tournaments yet.

[CountryMou3e]

13 hours ago, Caspeur said:

I'm hoping the FAQ will give more clearity on the Gaunt Summoner with familiars, because right now he's kind of in a weird spot.

However, I would say that the familiars are definately worth the 20 points in my opinion. 

I always run him with Arcane Sacrifice on Pinks and a Balewind Vortex and give him the Bolt spell. The bolt and anti horde spell will then be on 33" range so he'll be able to sit back surrounded by his pool of pinks. My enemies oftenly don't get him in range, making (defensive) artefacts unnecessary.

Then again I haven't played any tournaments yet.

There’s literally nothing to clarify... Gaunt with familiars is dead and over in matched play. Get over it people  

 

[Landohammer]

14 hours ago, ThePie said:

So what is the best way to run the Gaunt Summoner now?

Cheaper without familiars or pay 20 pts extra for that +1 to casting rolls?

Treacherous bond for survival or use paradoxical shield instead? Or perhaps go all out firepower and skip on survabiliy and put artifacts on other heroes?

RAW the familiar version is no longer legal. So in matched play there is only one option if you want Infernal Flames. (at least until we get an FAQ or a new codex)

However I recommend you give him Arcane Sacrifice and, if you have the points maybe Balewind Vortex.

If you keep him relatively near the LOC, and use Arcane sacrifice, then you end up with a rerollable cast with a +1. So you have a pretty good shot at hitting that 8. 

 

 

[Caspeur]

2 hours ago, CountryMou3e said:

There’s literally nothing to clarify... Gaunt with familiars is dead and over in matched play. Get over it people  

 

We've gotten as far as reading the statement. If you read back you can see we already discussed it. Whatever your stance, you must admit this is a very weird way of stating a unit isn't usable anymore.

[Landohammer]

@Caspeur

Agreed. Its sloppy. It puts the burden onto your opponent which makes things awkward. 

But what happens when someone ends up on a top table in a tournament and their opponent refuses permission? Like would they just not field the model? The GS is particularly tricky since many people field him as their general. 

Personally, until we get clarification, I am just going to field the regular non-familiar version. I don't want there to be an asterisk by any of my games. The GS is already an effective enough model IMHO.

[Caspeur]

Same. To be fair I've only used the Familiar version with my close group. I've always found the Familiar version to be a bit strange

Edited June 25, 2019 by Caspeur

[Reezark_SP]

How is everyone else finding Flamers now at 140? I just gave some a spin in my last game and they were absolutely awesome. A unit of 3 and a unit of 10 Acolytes were able to hold one of my rear objectives and melt away 10 ungors, 10 bestigors, and the beastlord general. \

I feel their shooting is much better than the Skyfire's. That extra shot per model plus that bonus d3 mortals at the end of the shooting phase really adds up the wounds. 

I think I will try to include at least 1 in my lists going forward and get a 2nd box of them for summoning. I think I can expect to have enough fate points by turn 2 or 3 for the Changehost list I have written down and will start playing once I get the chance to buy a few more Horrors boxes.

[PUFNSTUF]

What are people generally tring to summon with fate points in changehost? More Horrors usually?

[Sigwarus]

Just blues and brimstones mostly. Sometimes the rare exalted flamer but I feel that summoning a herald of some sort cant be wrong as your opponent really should aim for those heroes. 

[Paniere]

Yesterday I had my first changehost game ever and it was a blast! I was able to enjoy it only 2 rounds because my LoC was oneshotted in turn 2 by an alpha strike Braggoth's big hammer hero with themalrider cloak+cogs . However due to the great amount of mw , shooting and luck on rolls off , I was able to win the game anyway. A couple of question arose, apologies if they are trivial but as said I'm fairly new to the game:

1) assuming I want to changehost 2 units which are both out of combat but close to enemy lines, let's say 5" for example.  Am I allowed to end with one or both within 3" from the enemy, exploiting the 9" radius to engage the enemy?

2)Assuming I cast all my endless in turn 1, Can I unbind one of them at the start of turn 2   and recast it  later in the same turn?

3) Paradoxical shield question. My GS saves  at 6+. With PS (assuming no rend) he has to reroll 6s, he will save successfully with 5s and 4s, fail the rest.  If he's on a balewind vortex and in cover (+2 save) how does this work? Do I reroll on my first save roll only 6s or also 4s and 5s?  Basically my question is: the save modifiers due to BW and cover are added up to the PS or to my basic save? How do we take rend into account?

Thanks to anybody providing insight on this matter!

[Reezark_SP]

5 hours ago, Paniere said:

Yesterday I had my first changehost game ever and it was a blast! I was able to enjoy it only 2 rounds because my LoC was oneshotted in turn 2 by an alpha strike Braggoth's big hammer hero with themalrider cloak+cogs . However due to the great amount of mw , shooting and luck on rolls off , I was able to win the game anyway. A couple of question arose, apologies if they are trivial but as said I'm fairly new to the game:

1) assuming I want to changehost 2 units which are both out of combat but close to enemy lines, let's say 5" for example.  Am I allowed to end with one or both within 3" from the enemy, exploiting the 9" radius to engage the enemy?

2)Assuming I cast all my endless in turn 1, Can I unbind one of them at the start of turn 2   and recast it  later in the same turn?

3) Paradoxical shield question. My GS saves  at 6+. With PS (assuming no rend) he has to reroll 6s, he will save successfully with 5s and 4s, fail the rest.  If he's on a balewind vortex and in cover (+2 save) how does this work? Do I reroll on my first save roll only 6s or also 4s and 5s?  Basically my question is: the save modifiers due to BW and cover are added up to the PS or to my basic save? How do we take rend into account?

Thanks to anybody providing insight on this matter!

Not sure about #1 as I haven't gotten a chance to play Changehost yet.

#2 I believe you can only make dispell attempts against Endless Spells before any casting so at the start of your Hero Phase if you dispell one of your Endless Spells off the table you can cast it later in that same Hero phase.

#3 from the FAQ: Page 77 – Fated Artefacts, Paradoxical Shield Change the rules text to: ‘Re-roll successful save rolls for the bearer. In addition, add 2 to the save rolls for the bearer (after any re-rolls have been taken).’

I believe the order of operation for Paradoxial Shield on GS would be make your armor save, then reroll any 6s, then add +2 to the result. So 4s and 5s don't need to be rerolled.

[Drib]

Spoiler

14 hours ago, Paniere said:

Yesterday I had my first changehost game ever and it was a blast! I was able to enjoy it only 2 rounds because my LoC was oneshotted in turn 2 by an alpha strike Braggoth's big hammer hero with themalrider cloak+cogs . However due to the great amount of mw , shooting and luck on rolls off , I was able to win the game anyway. A couple of question arose, apologies if they are trivial but as said I'm fairly new to the game:

1) assuming I want to changehost 2 units which are both out of combat but close to enemy lines, let's say 5" for example.  Am I allowed to end with one or both within 3" from the enemy, exploiting the 9" radius to engage the enemy?

2)Assuming I cast all my endless in turn 1, Can I unbind one of them at the start of turn 2   and recast it  later in the same turn?

3) Paradoxical shield question. My GS saves  at 6+. With PS (assuming no rend) he has to reroll 6s, he will save successfully with 5s and 4s, fail the rest.  If he's on a balewind vortex and in cover (+2 save) how does this work? Do I reroll on my first save roll only 6s or also 4s and 5s?  Basically my question is: the save modifiers due to BW and cover are added up to the PS or to my basic save? How do we take rend into account?

Thanks to anybody providing insight on this matter!

 

1) The changehost allows you to freely swap in and out of combat, as long as your models are setup within 9" of the first swaped model.

2) As @Reezark_SP  said, you are free to dispell and recast endlessspells.

3) You only ever have to re-roll the unmodified successful save rolls! For the Gaunt Summonder its only the 6s.