Caspeur

I feel you man... half of the people in my group are playing competitive, and they made me stop playing for 2 months. Now I tend to avoid battling them because I'm more into goofy random battles (hence why I love Tzeentch so much). I'm sure you can find players that are less competitive! Otherwise we should wait for the battletome update. I have high hopes for Tzeentch, and expect them to be a lot easier to play on a higher level.

Don't give up yet, man! To be fair, in my opinion Tzeentch is one of the hardest armies to play. Everything dies quickly and everything's expensive, and having a double turn against you at the wrong time is worse for you than any other army out there, because you can't survive that extra punch. I'm relatively new to the hobby, and quite bad still. I started with Tzeentch so I could play both 40K and AoS, and I kept losing too. I branched out to Thousand Sons on 40K (Mixed with my Daemons) and Flesh eater courts on AoS, and I've gotta say, it IS an army wide problem, not just you. At least right now it is. The difference is HUGE. At first, every unit I lost was a huge deal, but with these armies I only have to be cautious with around 3 units. That's not the case for Tzeentch at all. There's some things that I learned to do though whenever I play Tzeentch: - The day before the battle, I quickly look up the most used warscrolls of the enemy's army. This is key to any battle, but when playing Tzeentch it's essential. Know what your enemy might do at all times, as if you're playing chess - Unless I'm running a beefy list (With 30x Tzaangors and 30x Chaos Warriors), I always tend to have just one or two drops (Or at least, less than my enemy). This way I can go second, which is huge for Tzeentch - When I go second, I almost never take double turn, unless I'm sure that I'll be delivering a finishing blow. Whenever you take the turn, you will get it back. - If your list doesn't include any batallions, you'll probably finish deploying last. If this is the case, you'll most likely get first turn because the opponents will think that it'll wreck your hero phase. If this is the case, make sure you build your list towards punishing them for giving you first turn. For example, give Gaunt Summoner Souldraught and Arcane sacrifice and have it cast a Balewind Vortex with 3 dice rerolling, so you're almost certain you'll get it. Then you'll have a 33" threat range for your Anti horde spell. This is incredible, as your opponent will probably be at exactly 24" from you, trying to be agressive. Then there's the Enlightened who can move 16", then charge for 8", maybe spend the command reroll on that or use destiny dice. Make sure your Shaman runs in front of the enlightened before you make the charge so they're still in his aura after the charge. Then there's Tzaangors, who can move 6, auto-run for 6, and use two destiny dice (2x6) if you can spare them, giving them 24" which is enough to punish your opponent for giving you the first turn. You can make a huge conga line of 30 Tzaangors covering most of your deployment zone edge, and have them all run forward in a straight line (if the terrain will let you). The Tzaangors will most likely survive their fighting in your own turn, so they're essentially stalling your opponent during their own turn, or at least half of their army. - I try to stay clear of units that die too quickly. I'm not too experienced yet, and therefor I might forget to screen correctly / deal with deepstrike congalines, etc. It's not worth the risk for me to field expensive flamers or burning chariots. - You're facing a lot of armies that are stronger than yours (all of them beside Seraphon). All of then are quite agressive and straight forward. Their main tactic is run forward and punch (BOOORING). You can definately work with that. Your hero phase is your best friend, especially against those foes. Seraphon and Khorne might be able to dispell better than others, but you'll probably be having more attempts than they can deny. Don't forget to bring mobile heroes to flank those agressive dudes with your summons. Maybe it's an idea to just start with 1K battles and work your way up again? I still tend to do smaller battles just because I feel like they're more casual than the 2.5K that my local gaming group regularly plays. Just keep in mind that the local meta is always different, and I suspect that yours relies on heavy agression and pushing, running straight forward across the board. Maybe you can tailor your list to be anti-meta? I found out that some things just work so well for me, while they might not work in other gaming groups.

Looking good! I suggest giving the Gaunt Summoner Arcane Sacrifice. Keep a unit of pinks within 3" and you get some amazing combos. First off, you do D3 mortal wounds on the pinks, generating blue points. You can trigger your battleshock without having enemies near them. Your Gaunt Summoner then gets reroll to cast, which is amazing on its own, but you also get 9" extra range on his spells. This stacks with the Vortex, giving you 33" range on his signature spell and the bolt of change! For artefacts I like Souldraught as it enhances your casting, but I've seen a lot of Gryph Feather charms (realm artifact) being played.

Hi! I think Tzeentch would be a great choice for a second army, as it plays completely different than Death. Flesh eater cours is my second army and I love to switch armies every now and then, just for variety's sake. Flamers and all variants of them are a little bit difficult to field right now, because they are such glass cannons. It is possible to do quite some funny things with them, though I wouldn't count on them as the bread and butter of your army. Tzaangor enlightened however, are in a great place in my opinion, even with the recent point changes. Get a unit of 6 with spears and back them up with a Tzaangor Shaman and you'll have a powerful melee option for your relatively bad melee army. I recommend checking out battleline first. Which ones do you like? Pink horrors have some serious summoning possibilities, while Tzaangors are relatively hard hitting, especially in bigger units. Meanwhile if you're not into both of them, Kairic Acolytes are a dirt cheap option. Then I'd look into heroes. Most heroes come with their own spells, and some of them synergize with other units. The Tzaangor Shaman, for instance, has a spell that lets you regenerate your unit of Tzaangors. There's so much stuff for Tzeentch to look into! As for painting, don't worry too much. If you're unsure about the enlightened, start with just regular Tzaangors, as it'll just be a small upgrade from there. Hope this helps!

Same. To be fair I've only used the Familiar version with my close group. I've always found the Familiar version to be a bit strange

We've gotten as far as reading the statement. If you read back you can see we already discussed it. Whatever your stance, you must admit this is a very weird way of stating a unit isn't usable anymore.

I'm hoping the FAQ will give more clearity on the Gaunt Summoner with familiars, because right now he's kind of in a weird spot. However, I would say that the familiars are definately worth the 20 points in my opinion. I always run him with Arcane Sacrifice on Pinks and a Balewind Vortex and give him the Bolt spell. The bolt and anti horde spell will then be on 33" range so he'll be able to sit back surrounded by his pool of pinks. My enemies oftenly don't get him in range, making (defensive) artefacts unnecessary. Then again I haven't played any tournaments yet.

Let me know how it went! I'm still curious to see whether your vision on Enlightened on foot would work out, so I might try it out myself. Wildfire Taurus is an amazing idea btw, I always forget that our shammies keep the Beasts of Chaos keyword

How's running 9 enlightened working for you though? I find it to be a bit too fiddly sometimes to get all of them in combat while still being in range of the shaman

Ouch! You really like flying Tzaangors don't you? 😅

Haha that's funny! Would you like to share your list? Always curious to see what people come up with!

By all means, I'm not an experienced player so take my words with a pile of salt. I have a prediction based on the following quote: "This year’s General’s Handbook also contains allegiance abilities for several factions, with expanded rules for Ironjawz, Seraphon, Wanderers, Darkling Covens, Free Peoples, Slaves to Darkness and Dispossessed. If you’re looking to make the most of these forces in your games, the book is a must-have." What I read here, is them saying that Ironjawz, Seraphon and Slaves to Darkness, will not get a 2.0 version this year. Despite already having an AoS battletome. This would mean that Sylvaneth (duh), Tzeentch, Beastclaw Raiders and Kharadron Overlords would get a 2.0 version this year. Then there's the older factions, of which I think Aelves have rhe highest priority (simply because they seem to be mentioned the most by both GW and the community). Then Freepeepz, Ogors and Duardin will follow. Not sure in what order though. If the statement is true that they'll be getting a tome before the end of 2020, my hopes are that Aelves will release this fall, and Free peoples in spring 2020. 😊 We can only hope!

The Warhammer-community warscroll builder hasn't had an update yet. He is 160 in GH19 and in the AoS app "Azyr" though.

Did you win? 😄

I didn't say he doesn't exist anymore, I said he isn't officially legal anymore. You need your opponent's consent to be able to play him. So you're basically asking to a TO and your opponent "Hey guys, can I play this broken version of an already powerful unit because I want to be that guy?" If the others have somewhat of a brain, they'll say "Just play him without the familiars" and you're back at the start 😜

So, your point is, that a unit which is not officially legal in pitched battles anymore, is extremely strong now? You probably won't even be allowed to bring him to tournaments as he isn't included in the 2019 pitched booklet. I'm sure this rule was meant to be broken for the goofier battles in open/narrative

What's your point, bro? 😅😅

When are you planning on playing this list?

Well, noone said that he doesn't exist anymore. You're just gonna need your opponent's consent now if you're playing pitched battles.

Apparently so... it sucks but it doesn't really matter to me. Still an incredible hero with the most powerful anti-horde ability in the game. Gotta love that 20 point decrease on him 😄

Sounds promising. Curious to see how far it'll get you after a few games!

Don't worry. Didn't mean to trigger you. I'm just trying to be realistic, is all. Standard humies aren't a priority at all atm, which is why I won't be expecting an update anytime soon.

Now that you've explained what you're trying to do, I could see this work. Still, in practise I wonder how you'll manage. You'll probably get first turn, what happens then? And what will happen if you get the early double turn against you? Just marching your Pinks forward, trying to get them killed, seems lackluster to me, especially since against most armies, you'll be lacking board control in such a situation. Making it hard to push your Blues onto objectives. What I like about Enlightened on discs and the buffed Gaunt Summoner, is the first turn punishment, which is quite unique for armies to have. Though I get that you want the Cabal, I still think the Gaunt summoner is an auto pick. Even on a unit of 10, that's 5 mortal wounds on average. If it really won't be of use too often, he uses Bolt of Tzeentch. I love running endless spells through Pinks, but for some reason the Arcane Sacrifice always seems like a demoralizing thing to the opponent. Kill one pink and get back 5 with a snap of your fingers? "TZEENTCH IS BROKEN" Muwhahaha

That's amazing! Exactly what I want to hear! Thank you for sharing with us!

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts- Grand Court: GristlegoreLeadersAbhorrant Archregent (200)- Artefact: The Dermal Robe - Lore of Madness: Blood FeastAbhorrant Archregent (200)- Lore of Madness: Deranged TransformationAbhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (400)- General- Trait: Savage Strike - Lore of Madness: Miasmal Shroud- Mount Trait: Gruesome BiteAbhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (400)- Artefact: Ghurish Mawshard - Lore of Madness: Bonestorm- Mount Trait: Gruesome BiteAbhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Zombie Dragon (440)- Lore of Madness: Monstrous VigourAbhorrant Ghoul King (140)- Lore of Madness: Blood FeastCrypt Ghast Courtier (60)Battleline10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)BattalionsGhoul Patrol (180)Endless Spells / TerrainChalice of Ushoran (40)Aethervoid Pendulum (40)Total: 2500 / 2500Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 500Wounds: 106 Whatcha guys think about this list? My group mostly plays 2500 pts. I'm used to going Ghoul heavy or Flayer heavy so this is a first for me. What do you guys think of the choices I made? Is the Zombie dragon's spell worth it on this scale or would I be better off having ANOTHER Terrorgheist? 😂 Also I don't know what to do with so many spellcasters when it comes to spell lore... to be honest most spells are quite bad for this list