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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

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I am having issues using the BT of IR atm. It is such a gambling, he just does nothing and his 280 points feel totally wasted.
So therefore I was switching to 3 Khorgoraths instead of him, usinf the Skullfiend Slaughterhost to have them buffed. Should be more reliable.

Even though it was already saied, those radnom damage values really fu** up the game experience.
I was wondering why GW descided to use stuff like that and came to the conclusion, that they agve a lot of D3 & D6 damage values to models and units, that are and where not easy to balance.

Sounds just lazy imo.

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1 hour ago, Battlefury said:

I am having issues using the BT of IR atm. It is such a gambling, he just does nothing and his 280 points feel totally wasted.
So therefore I was switching to 3 Khorgoraths instead of him, usinf the Skullfiend Slaughterhost to have them buffed. Should be more reliable.

Even though it was already saied, those radnom damage values really fu** up the game experience.
I was wondering why GW descided to use stuff like that and came to the conclusion, that they agve a lot of D3 & D6 damage values to models and units, that are and where not easy to balance.

Sounds just lazy imo.

Had the same issue, but I use him in a mortal list. Ended up dropping him for the 280, added Wrathmongers 10 reavers and a bloodstoker (only list was 1990)

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5 hours ago, Battlefury said:

I am having issues using the BT of IR atm. It is such a gambling, he just does nothing and his 280 points feel totally wasted.
So therefore I was switching to 3 Khorgoraths instead of him, usinf the Skullfiend Slaughterhost to have them buffed. Should be more reliable.

 

I'm eager to hear your experience subbing Khorgoraths for the BT, because there's a lot of potential. I mean, a 24-wound unit with the same 4+ save, but flinging 15 2-damage attacks--then add Skullfiend rerolls, bloodsecrator, Skulltake battalion so those 6s to wound are 3 damage apiece etc. Yes.

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I think the next best replacement for BTs are Daemon princes, you're essentially getting same output for half a price.  After that it's surprisingly Valkia, she's even better at cost/efficiency, but doesn't get any demon synergies.

BTs pay a lot for their command abilities, that makes them subpar beatsticks.

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51 minutes ago, Zamik said:

I'm eager to hear your experience subbing Khorgoraths for the BT, because there's a lot of potential. I mean, a 24-wound unit with the same 4+ save, but flinging 15 2-damage attacks--then add Skullfiend rerolls, bloodsecrator, Skulltake battalion so those 6s to wound are 3 damage apiece etc. Yes.

Gonna try it out and report the result soon :)

The tournament is at saturday and the point limit is 1250, wich is not really optimal, but ok.
I couldn't take the SKulltake battalion thoough and have to rely on Skullreapers too, so the only support for the Khorgies would be the ability to reroll all the hits and wounds. Otherwise I have the stoker with me. But he can't effect the Khorgies, since they don't have the keyword ( why ever they don't have ).

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2 minutes ago, Smooth criminal said:

I think the next best replacement for BTs are Daemon princes, you're essentially getting same output for half a price.  After that it's surprisingly Valkia, she's even better at cost/efficiency, but doesn't get any demon synergies.

BTs pay a lot for their command abilities, that makes them subpar beatsticks.

Exactly what I was thinking.
The Demon Prince just has the random damage value too, but the point cost is pretty much 50% of a BT. His 12" movement is absolutely nice and imagining to have 2 of them instead of 1 BT makes him more interesting.

So you're absolutely right here.
Valkya rocks. She will pretty much do all the jobs better than an actual BT.

There where over and over again points in the games, where I again had the feeling the BoK book being "just" a supplement. The army itself, just the stuff in the book, will not be the deal for us. But the stuff, that can gain the Khorne keyword outside the book makes it viable.

Just look at these units:

Chaos Marauder Horsemen: Fast. Have shooting. Abilities are just great. For 80 points for 5 ( GH19 ). Totally party poopers. Great objective takers.
Demon Prince: Beatstick. Fast as fu**.
Valkya: Even better beatstick. Snipes heroes. Fast. Reliable.
Gorebeast Chariot: Fast. Great chaff unit. Takes attention from the enemy.
Chaos Sorcerer Lord: Fu** magic, but YES.
Chaos Lord on Manticore: Good in charge. Snipes heroes easily.

So my experience so far, regarding the IMO most effective units in our book:

1. Skullgrinder, when buffed
2. Khorgoraths in single model units ( each of them is healing and enemy seperates his hits to them ), try to slay all of them
3. Bloodstoker
4. Bloodsecrator
5. Flesh Hounds ( really the best Battleline for chaos IMO )
6. Skarr Bloodwrath
7. Skullreapers
8. Wrathmongers
9. Exalted DB

My experience is based on mostly non daemon unkts. But I see, that the SKullmaster and SKulltaker demon heroes are pretty good, too.

 

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I love running the big guys. Using Reapers of Vengeance command ability along with killing frenzy from a priest can drastically improve your chances, but its definitely swingy.

Also curious how the Korgi's are working.

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10 minutes ago, twrightii said:

Also curious how the Korgi's are working.

Gonna report it at Saturday evening, when the tourney is done :)

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10 hours ago, Battlefury said:

I am having issues using the BT of IR atm. It is such a gambling, he just does nothing and his 280 points feel totally wasted.
So therefore I was switching to 3 Khorgoraths instead of him, usinf the Skullfiend Slaughterhost to have them buffed. Should be more reliable.

Even though it was already saied, those radnom damage values really fu** up the game experience.
I was wondering why GW descided to use stuff like that and came to the conclusion, that they agve a lot of D3 & D6 damage values to models and units, that are and where not easy to balance.

Sounds just lazy imo.

I have been using the Bt of IR in my past 5 games.  I pair him with WOK and take Reapersof Veng.  The rest of my army is mortals and make use of the Slaughterborn Battalion.  With proper screening from Blood Warriors or Flesh Reavers he should get you to where you need.  If shooting is a problem there is the Ethreal Amulet or Wragged Cloak.  I understand that sometimes this is not enough even, but making my opponent prioritize their targets has won me victory after victory.  Let's see do I shoot the thirster with the big axe, the one that's stopping all my magic, or the 3 units of Skullreapers coming toward my left flank.  Something will reach enemy lines, and with said screening and relics, usually a lot hits enemy lines.   If he gets there he's the perfect bomb.  The look on your opponents face when everything in 8 inches starts taking mortal wounds, and that's before the damage happens.  Then with Reapers, he gets to go twice, which often makes up for that random damage value.   In my last 3 games he has been the MVP.  

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The insensate rage just needs some lucky dice. Otherwise he suuucks. Also, it's good to pair him with another one, maybe 2 in tyrants.

Again, how are people finding tyrants? Thanks for that battle report, sounded like a good game. Do you guys think the UF is crucial to it working? I have a WoK and an IR atm and want to get skarbrand, not an UF. Would this be any good? (Should I magnetise my WoK?)

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13 hours ago, MortalRealmMike said:

I have been using the Bt of IR in my past 5 games.  I pair him with WOK and take Reapersof Veng.  The rest of my army is mortals and make use of the Slaughterborn Battalion.  With proper screening from Blood Warriors or Flesh Reavers he should get you to where you need.  If shooting is a problem there is the Ethreal Amulet or Wragged Cloak.  I understand that sometimes this is not enough even, but making my opponent prioritize their targets has won me victory after victory.  Let's see do I shoot the thirster with the big axe, the one that's stopping all my magic, or the 3 units of Skullreapers coming toward my left flank.  Something will reach enemy lines, and with said screening and relics, usually a lot hits enemy lines.   If he gets there he's the perfect bomb.  The look on your opponents face when everything in 8 inches starts taking mortal wounds, and that's before the damage happens.  Then with Reapers, he gets to go twice, which often makes up for that random damage value.   In my last 3 games he has been the MVP.  

Did pretty much the same thing, wich worked out very nice in one game.

I had the BT IR in my 1250 points army. In turn 3 he piled in and obliterated 40% of the enemie's army within one melle blow. Then due to Reapers of Vengeance he piled in again and did literally 2 damage and not a single MW.
Even my opponent was asking me: "Was that it right now? What happened?"

BTs are good bombs, but really reliant on lucky dice rolls. I don't want to rely on stuff, that is not reliable, at least to a certain degree. That's why I am looking to replace the BT with other, more reliable options.

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21 hours ago, Smooth criminal said:

I think the next best replacement for BTs are Daemon princes, you're essentially getting same output for half a price.  After that it's surprisingly Valkia, she's even better at cost/efficiency, but doesn't get any demon synergies.

BTs pay a lot for their command abilities, that makes them subpar beatsticks.

This conversation just made me realize, I think the reason I’ve effectively stopped playing Khorne was the poor productivity of (my use of) the Bloodthirsters.  Put them on the table, they die - quick.  I have 4.   Now play Skaven.  I’m sure it’s my play style, but in 8th Ed there was fear when the Bloodthirster - the epitome of the Combat phase - got that charge in, now... opponents are “meh”.

i wish I was able to get the most use out of the points From those units, their command abilities- fantastic - but, not when the Bloodthirster has been shot dead, or has 3 wounds left from 2 turns of Quicksilver Swords. 

its gotta be me, but the current strong lists don’t have Bloodthirsters, but do have mostly mortals.

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So there are new generic CP abilities in GHB 2019 that allow to reroll 1s on hit, wound or save. I guess that's a buff to non-reapers hosts. Also allows us to have 2+ save reroll 1s Skullcrushers with only a priest around.

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I've been thinking of using a Daemon Prince as a kind of kamikaze fighter, to draw attention away from the skullreapers and khorgoraths--what's the 40k term, Distraction Carnifex? I mean, a Daemon Prince of Khorne gets a +1 to all hit rolls, making his axe and his talons hit naturally on a 3+ or his sword on a 2+. With wings he moves faster than a Bloodthirster, and I'm thinking of running the army as Goretide so he can fire off a screen of Bloodreavers into the unit he wants to attack, then lay into them. And when he dies, it's 160 points gone.

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Oh yeah, I forgot about Centigors; I'm gonna hunt for at least 5 of those now.  So fast and surprisingly tanky in melee.  I think those and the Tuskgor Chariots might end up replacing my Dragon Ogors and Shaggoth in my Beasts of Khorne army.

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45 minutes ago, Zamik said:

I've been thinking of using a Daemon Prince as a kind of kamikaze fighter, to draw attention away from the skullreapers and khorgoraths--what's the 40k term, Distraction Carnifex? I mean, a Daemon Prince of Khorne gets a +1 to all hit rolls, making his axe and his talons hit naturally on a 3+ or his sword on a 2+. With wings he moves faster than a Bloodthirster, and I'm thinking of running the army as Goretide so he can fire off a screen of Bloodreavers into the unit he wants to attack, then lay into them. And when he dies, it's 160 points gone.

The appropriate reaction to the amount of killing power is some sort of MSU, and WSBs. But that requires you to have pieces that are actually singularly powerful. I don't know if BoK have those pieces. I think Archaon is probably a good start though.

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22 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

The appropriate reaction to the amount of killing power is some sort of MSU, and WSBs. But that requires you to have pieces that are actually singularly powerful. I don't know if BoK have those pieces. I think Archaon is probably a good start though.

Surprisingly Archaon is IMO absolutely lousy for his point value. Look at his stats. We had him being used in our local tournaments and he is just laughably ******, tbh. As a supporter he might be ok, but he can't fight.

+++ MOD EDIT +++ A little less negativity in your comments please...

Edited by RuneBrush

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5 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

The appropriate reaction to the amount of killing power is some sort of MSU, and WSBs.

What does WSB stand for?

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2 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

Surprisingly Archaon is IMO absolutely lousy for his point value. Look at his stats. We had him being used in our local tournaments and he is just laughably ******, tbh. As a supporter he might be ok, but he can't fight.

That model is kind of the worst abomination of lore vs model / rules set I have ever seen in AoS until now.

He can take all the Khorne buffs no? That is an impressive variety of bonuses. Warscrolls are just the beginning. Even just double pile-in is pretty big deal. And, his output is reliable which nothing in the book really does as far as I can tell, and brings a lot that Khorne currently doesn't have. 

 

Just now, Zamik said:

What does WSB stand for?

Warscroll battalion

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I think i have a good combo with the bloodthister of insensate rage.

You pay the magore's fiend warband. 

Then when you deploy, you put it near 2 slaughterpriests.

The slaughterpriest "cast" the  blood sacrifice on the magore's, then you cast the axe and icon judgements in his face (thats the most failure option here).

If you success on kill magore and riptooth, you then have blood thithe points to rub with the bloodthister, then you moove again in your movement phase, and you cand chargue where you wabt, attacking twice with reapers of vengance.

 

Probably, if your bloodsecrator is in range, the bloodthister get 1-2 6 on wound, and this is a hard time to any enemy. 

 

I think is worth, because all of that cost less than archaon, maybie archaon war a hsrd rock but.... this is simply destructive raw power in turn one for less points and with more blood thithe points after the all combo dies xD

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Hey all I'm a newbie to the game and trying to get my head around bloodcrushers. For their points  they seem poor compared to skullcrushers. Can someone let me know what I'm missing here?  Is there some synergies that make them viable?  I'm intending to use the bloodcrushers as an army for casual games.

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5 hours ago, Curry_Supreme said:

Hey all I'm a newbie to the game and trying to get my head around bloodcrushers. For their points  they seem poor compared to skullcrushers. Can someone let me know what I'm missing here?  Is there some synergies that make them viable?  I'm intending to use the bloodcrushers as an army for casual games.

Welcome to the game :)

If you wanna play a mainly demon army, you should use the Bloodcrushers, since they got the demon keyword and would benefit from any buff ta demon can get. With the Skullcrushers it is the other way around, but when it comes to raw statistics, the Skullcrushers are just the better choice.

So it depends on the army type you wanna play.

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13 hours ago, Curry_Supreme said:

Hey all I'm a newbie to the game and trying to get my head around bloodcrushers. For their points  they seem poor compared to skullcrushers. Can someone let me know what I'm missing here?  Is there some synergies that make them viable?  I'm intending to use the bloodcrushers as an army for casual games.

As @Battlefury mentioned, Mortal Crushers are affected by other buffs than Daemon Crushers and vice versa.

Bloodcrushers can be used to doublefight, which is great as if they can kill an enemy unit with Charge MW + 2 Rounds of Fightning, they can use 3 Bloodtithe to charge right into the next enemy unit. Beside of this, most buffs are available to Blood and Skullcrushers, but are attached to different units. I for my own prefer Skullcrushers as they overall have just the better stats.

 

Edit:
I´ve got my Judgements yesterday and wanted to ask you about your opinion on the sculpts. While the Axe and the Skulls are okay, I am really shocked about how bad the quality of the icon is, as it looks like a Happy Meal Toy (also, its really just the icon, not the base which is okay again). Big, round surfaces which lack any detail and are far from the usual GW Quality. I am currently concidering how to add texture. Most propably by using liquid greenstuff to dab some texture on it. Any tips on this one?

Edited by Charleston
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5 hours ago, Charleston said:

Edit:

I´ve got my Judgements yesterday and wanted to ask you about your opinion on the sculpts. While the Axe and the Skulls are okay, I am really shocked about how bad the quality of the icon is, as it looks like a Happy Meal Toy (also, its really just the icon, not the base which is okay again). Big, round surfaces which lack any detail and are far from the usual GW Quality. I am currently concidering how to add texture. Most propably by using liquid greenstuff to dab some texture on it. Any tips on this one?

Most of those terrian features ( herdstone & several other models ) are 3D printed in China, and that's conformed. I can see each single casting line the 3D Printer did on my Herdstone.

#Competetive:

I wanted to report about the Khorgoraths & stuff at the tournament today, and here we go.

First of all, each player had really nasty lists. I would summarize my impressions like this:

1. Khorgoraths are ridiculously good! Play then in single unit models and chaff them up single enemy units. They are very resiliant! They are really nice at screening & chaffing AND they can kill the chaffed enemy unit! Take them and use them!

2. Blood Warriors bite like toothless dogs, but that's what we already know wich leads to the next pojnt...

3. Take the actual dogs as battleline! They are surprisingly good and worth their point cost.

4. Might Lord of Khorne is a lack luster. Really, I think he is not worth taking him.

5. Skullgrinder is good, but buff him with A, so he deals more damage!

6. Chaos Marauder Horsemen are super nice. Best unit to take objectives in our army, since they can retreat, fire and then charge again. Play them in a group of 10 but be keen of their bravery, wich is 5!

7. Skull Reapers are our core unit, really!

The most players don't know the potential of the Khorgoraths, that's to out advantage.
Skull Reapers are incredibly scary and do good damage, where you need it.

Really avoid anything with random damage value! The Mighty Lord did just nothin in all games. He was in the fight and stayed there due to his save, but the dmaage he did was just laughable. Let us better not talk about his Axe abilty.
I managed to gain 8 BT to summon in a BT of IR. And he did...almost nothing. The Skullgrinder did more damage in a single combat phase, than the BT did in the same phase.

Rely on good saves, straight damage values and some speed. Then you will have a good army.

Units, that are good therefore are:

Mighty Skullcrushers
Khorgoraths
Skullgrinder
Exaled DB
Flesh hounds
Chaos Marauder Horsemen
Gorebeast Chariot

Some people might see a simple fact, that I pointed at the release of the new book:

Those units are good, what gained new models & new warscrolls for this realease. GW certainly had in mind to sell them, so we gotta buy them, because they are good now:

Mighty Skullcrushers
Flesh Hounds
Skull Altar
Bloodmaster & Skulltaker
Skullreapers
Wrathmongers

That's it. Use those units and you will certainly have a good win rate.
Blood Thirster where remade, but here GW had the same issue as with other units: they are not so easy to balance, so they just made them random. BAM.

Sry for that clear words, but I hope you can understand me there. And hopefully it helps people to build their lists!

 

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@Battlefury

Great write up and thanks for the info. How many khorgoraths did you take? I'm thinking 3 in one unit. I also agree with you on the mighty Lord of khorne. His damage is laughable, but it is really fun to run him as a phsyogical weapon. You have to chat up the fact that he can one shot guys and constantly remind your opponent that nagash is not long for this world. With his thermalrider cloak he can zip around and hopefully keep enemy heroes from important places. Granted, any good opponent will just ignore him, but against newer players he is stupidly fun.

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