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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

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Again for the Bstigors. They don't really need those buffs, really. They're pretty good on their own.

When I take Brass Despoilers s the Battalion and they gain KHORNE keyword, are Bestigors battleline then?

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7 minutes ago, Impa said:

page? i'll go back and read it. been tough sifting through the belly aching. I wish i was a Fyreslayer. 

spoiler alert I lost the game 👀 

One of the major reasons I because he charged me and pinned me in with his Mighty Skullcrushers in my deployment zone which took forever to hack away so I could get to the objectives. 

Also we played it wrong and he had used the Goretide Command Ability on them slinging them across the board really far. I missed that until 2 rounds later when I thought about it. 

Ah well c’est la vie. I liked the list. I want to try a Skulltake list again. 

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2 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

Again for the Bstigors. They don't really need those buffs, really. They're pretty good on their own.

When I take Brass Despoilers s the Battalion and they gain KHORNE keyword, are Bestigors battleline then?

No. They’re only battle line in a beasts of chaos army if a Beastlord is the General, sadly.

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1 minute ago, Ravinsild said:

spoiler alert I lost the game 👀 

One of the major reasons I because he charged me and pinned me in with his Mighty Skullcrushers in my deployment zone which took forever to hack away so I could get to the objectives. 

Also we played it wrong and he had used the Goretide Command Ability on them slinging them across the board really far. I missed that until 2 rounds later when I thought about it. 

Ah well c’est la vie. I liked the list. I want to try a Skulltake list again. 

ahhh that's a shame. So what was in your list? i see your hatred towards bloodreavers. i share your sentiment, they are pretty worthless. i would never take more than the minimum requirements. as you stated your skull reapers were your main damage output. Blood warriors just sit on objectives, take majority of the hits, dish some back. Reapers as long as they aren't the major target for ranged attacks should do some nice damage. How many priests did you run? Bloodboil is by far our best ranged attack. who cares about those hideous skull cannons when you can have a priest for cheaper. I do agree about the crushers, if they can charge they are pretty bad ass. I don't have any mounted models, probably wont buy any either as i've invested enough in daemons. Nice pics too! that's some sweet scenery.  

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Posted (edited)

I saw some people mentioning Brass Despoilers so I threw a list together. What do people think?

BOKBrassDepoilers.pdf

Allegiance: Khorne - Mortal Realm: Ghur

LEADERS

Bloodsecrator (140) - General - Command Trait : Berzerker Lord - Artefact : Gryph-feather Charm

Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (280) - Artefact : Amberglaive

Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing : Killing Frenzy

Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing : Bronzed Flesh

Slaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing : Blood Sacrifice

Doombull of Khorne (120)

UNITS

6 x Bullgors of Khorne (320)

10 x Gors of Khorne (80)

10 x Gors of Khorne (80)

5 x Blood Warriors (100) - Goreaxe & Gorefist

5 x Blood Warriors (100) - Goreaxe & Gorefist

5 x Wrathmongers (140)

BATTALIONS

Brass Despoilers (190)

ENDLESS SPELLS

Wrath-Axe (60)

Bleeding Icon (40)

TOTAL: 1950/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2 WOUNDS: 124 LEADERS: 6/6 BATTLELINES: 4 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 0/400

 

The idea is to present threats in the bullgors and the bloodthirster, both of which are marginally quick and use the gors and blood warriors as screens/sacrifice targets

Edited by Darksteve

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21 minutes ago, Impa said:

ahhh that's a shame. So what was in your list? i see your hatred towards bloodreavers. i share your sentiment, they are pretty worthless. i would never take more than the minimum requirements. as you stated your skull reapers were your main damage output. Blood warriors just sit on objectives, take majority of the hits, dish some back. Reapers as long as they aren't the major target for ranged attacks should do some nice damage. How many priests did you run? Bloodboil is by far our best ranged attack. who cares about those hideous skull cannons when you can have a priest for cheaper. I do agree about the crushers, if they can charge they are pretty bad ass. I don't have any mounted models, probably wont buy any either as i've invested enough in daemons. Nice pics too! that's some sweet scenery.  

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Goretide

Leaders
Mighty Lord of Khorne (140)
- General
- Trait: Hew the Foe  
- Artefact: Gorecleaver  
Bloodstoker (80)
Bloodsecrator (140)
- Artefact: Thronebreaker's Torc  
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Aspiring Deathbringer (80)
- Bloodaxe and Wrath Hammer

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
10 x Skullreapers (360)
- Goreslick Blades
- 2x Soultearers

Battalions
Bloodmad Warband (160)

Endless Spells
Bleeding Icon (40)
Wrath-Axe (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143

This was my list. I don’t know if it could be better or what I could replace but that’s how I ran it. 
 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Goretide

Leaders
Mighty Lord of Khorne (140)
- General
- Trait: Hew the Foe  
- Artefact: Gorecleaver  
Bloodstoker (80)
Bloodsecrator (140)
- Artefact: Thronebreaker's Torc  
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Aspiring Deathbringer (80)
- Bloodaxe and Wrath Hammer

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
10 x Skullreapers (360)
- Goreslick Blades
- 2x Soultearers

Battalions
Bloodmad Warband (160)

Endless Spells
Bleeding Icon (40)
Wrath-Axe (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143

This was my list. I don’t know if it could be better or what I could replace but that’s how I ran it. 
 

Yeah that is pretty similar. I guess by dropping the mighty lord, 10 blood reavers and the icon that opens up an extra slaughter priest and the wrathmongers. But Again that’s probably comparable. Aw man you’ve killed me dream already lol. I do agree with a lot of the complaints coming through in waves on this forum. Especially after seeing some of this new fyreslayer stuff. Ohwell I guess we just keep at it. Obviously every opponent has the potential of different play styles and army’s. There doesn’t seem to be one all encompassing list to take to be able to contest with what’s out there. And I think that’s a major complaint a lot of us are upset about. Anyways thanks for sharing your insight and experience with that list. 

Edited by Impa

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12 minutes ago, Impa said:

Yeah that is pretty similar. I guess by dropping the mighty lord, 10 blood reavers and the icon that opens up an extra slaughter priest and the wrathmongers. But Again that’s probably comparable. Aw man you’ve killed me dream already lol. I do agree with a lot of the complaints coming through in waves on this forum. Especially after seeing some of this new fyreslayer stuff. Ohwell I guess we just keep at it. Obviously every opponent has the potential of different play styles and army’s. There doesn’t seem to be one all encompassing list to take to be able to contest with what’s out there. And I think that’s a major complaint a lot of us are upset about. Anyways thanks for sharing your insight and experience with that list. 

Yeah I’m not out here complaining just to complain. I’m bringing up insights from my own games and testing and asking for solutions but it seems most people’s responses are something along the lines of “well I’m not having any problems therefore there are no problems so git gud”

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1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

spoiler alert I lost the game 👀 

One of the major reasons I because he charged me and pinned me in with his Mighty Skullcrushers in my deployment zone which took forever to hack away so I could get to the objectives. 

Also we played it wrong and he had used the Goretide Command Ability on them slinging them across the board really far. I missed that until 2 rounds later when I thought about it. 

Ah well c’est la vie. I liked the list. I want to try a Skulltake list again. 

Skullcrushers being sent over with Ever Onwards completely changes the dynamic of the game. Like, to the point where it's not worth taking much feedback from besides seeing how your own army has performed barring crazy bad rolling.  It's also why playing multiple games matters so much as it shows you different aspects of how your army will perform and against different targets.

20 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Yeah I’m not out here complaining just to complain. I’m bringing up insights from my own games and testing and asking for solutions but it seems most people’s responses are something along the lines of “well I’m not having any problems therefore there are no problems so git gud”

It's incredibly difficult to give tactical advice on a text based forum since nearly all of the nuance of a wargame is lost without highly detailed pictures (I skipped over such detail myself in my own battle report of the event I attended this past weekend due to this knowledge). Model positioning, model movement order, deployment choices, fight orders, remembering all of the special rules in play, turn order, etc etc etc. Theory is the the easiest thing to talk about on a text based forum, and the best way to figure things out that's not playing actual games is to watch battle reports, do mock up scenarios (like set up a certain unit size (like 30 Bloodletters) to get an idea of their footprint to see if they'd be in a certain aura range easily), and analyze your own games with detailed turn by turn pictures. I did all of this during my Warmachine days and I've carried the mentality over to this game. I traveled across the US for competitive events during my Warmachine days and left that all behind when I left the game as that's way too much stress.

I don't know how long you've been wargaming nor how you play because I'm not physically there watching you play.  Using your Bloodmad Warband list as a specific example, I don't know how far you've deployed your Skull Altar back, or how you've spaced your units to be covered by the Aspiring Deathbringer, or which unit is at the very front of the deployment zone, how you move your army, etc. 

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5 minutes ago, AresX8 said:

 

Skullcrushers being sent over with Ever Onwards completely changes the dynamic of the game. Like, to the point where it's not worth taking much feedback from besides seeing how your own army has performed barring crazy bad rolling.  It's also why playing multiple games matters so much as it shows you different aspects of how your army will perform and against different targets.

It's incredibly difficult to give tactical advice on a text based forum since nearly all of the nuance of a wargame is lost without highly detailed pictures (I skipped over such detail myself in my own battle report of the event I attended this past weekend due to this knowledge). Model positioning, model movement order, deployment choices, fight orders, remembering all of the special rules in play, turn order, etc etc etc. Theory is the the easiest thing to talk about on a text based forum, and the best way to figure things out that's not playing actual games is to watch battle reports, do mock up scenarios (like set up a certain unit size (like 30 Bloodletters) to get an idea of their footprint to see if they'd be in a certain aura range easily), and analyze your own games with detailed turn by turn pictures. I did all of this during my Warmachine days and I've carried the mentality over to this game. I traveled across the US for competitive events during my Warmachine days and left that all behind when I left the game as that's way too much stress.

I don't know how long you've been wargaming nor how you play because I'm not physically there watching you play.  Using your Bloodmad Warband list as a specific example, I don't know how far you've deployed your Skull Altar back, or how you've spaced your units to be covered by the Aspiring Deathbringer, or which unit is at the very front of the deployment zone, how you move your army, etc. 

I found a lot of insight from one poster who seemed to use the army in an abstract way, rather than attaching to any preexisting concepts or lore he seemed to use them as literally game pieces. 

He was talking about using things purely as roadblocks and sacrificing game pieces for the greater gain and that was interesting. 

I find 40k easier to play because even though I play the World Eaters (melee) everything has a designated role, it’s easier to understand what kills chaff and what kills monsters and titans and what’s elite and so forth, but this game the ranges are 1-3 for damage 99.9% of the time, there’s no strength for what hurts toughness which effects wounds and rend is 0-2 99.9% of the time where as in 40k high strength counters high toughness, lots of 1 damage shots counters hordes because damage doesn’t carry over etc. 

i find AoS a bit harder and more confusing for what is supposed to do what. 

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@Warbossironteef i ran Mani-Lord last game as hebwas mentioned several times in this thread by you and some others. I have to say off the bat i forgot about the Hew the Foe command trait all game and i only gave him the Goretide artifact as i very much wanted to try Banner of Wrath on my Secrator.

Long story short he feels very over costed. Granted he wasnt stellar in my game because of my own poor choices but he wasn't horrible either. If the game had continued past round 2 i would of won thanks to his movement speed being able to snatch an objective. Also the Banner of Wrath was clutch so i dont really regret that. I do have to say tho he feels very over costed due to the fact that he pretty much either needs a command trait + artifact or dedicated buff support (which he will undoubtedly be much faster than) just to be the killing machine you need him to be at that point level. It felt like a drain of resources to devote so much to just him.

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58 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Yeah I’m not out here complaining just to complain. I’m bringing up insights from my own games and testing and asking for solutions but it seems most people’s responses are something along the lines of “well I’m not having any problems therefore there are no problems so git gud”

Indeed. And thanks for the info you’ve shared. I hope to contribute with my own battle report here soon. I think I’m going to give gorepilgrims it’s last chance. Then it’s onto this bloodmad list. This pilgrims last has done me well. But when you loose your bloodstoker and if the bloodthirster takes heavy damage before he can do his thing. Things seem to fall like dominos. Bloodletter blob is very hard to keep holy within mongers and around terrain etc. So I may try dropping them and putting in reapers. But that locus from the bloodthirster and all the attacks can be so good if you can get a lot into combat. I’m mainly facing evocators and sequidors.. so there’s always heavy losses. 

FD491634-F513-4D62-A7D2-E86A767940A5.png

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How does Daemon Prince work? We can take him without him being an ally. He is literally a Daemon. He can be assigned as dedicated to Khorne. This does not give him the Khorne keyword I imagine? 

How does he interact with our army? Can he take Khorne DAEMON HERO artifacts? Can he be buffed at all by things that effect DAEMONS  or KHORNE like Bloodsecrator or Wrathmongers? 

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Posted (edited)

Played another game with Mortal Khorne yesterday.

Same list as a couple pages ago.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Goretide

Leaders
Aspiring Deathbringer (80)
- General
- Goreaxe and Skullhammer
- Trait: Hew the Foe 
- Artefact: The Skull-helm of Khorne 
Exalted Deathbringer with Impaling Spear (80)
Bloodsecrator (140)
- Artefact: Thronebreaker's Torc 
Bloodstoker (80)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
- 1x Spinecleavers
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
- 1x Spinecleavers
5 x Wrathmongers (140)

Battalions
Slaughterborn (180)

Endless Spells
Wrath-Axe (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 147
 

Basic idea behind the list is having one big "formation" with two units of Blood Warriors in front, Aspiring Deathbringer, Wrathmongers and whatever behind that. Makes for a really annoying blob of units and buffs. Skullreapers are either to the flanks or where ever they are needed, they are not really dependent on any additional buffs. The Blood Warrior unit with axes is used as target for the Goretide catapult if the chance arises or the opponent makes a mistake (worked like a charm in my first game against a Celestar).

Game was against Nighthaunt with the big banshee lady, a lot of characters, two big units of elite ghosts (Bladeghast, Grimghast), a big unit of Chainrasps and some small stuff like minimum Hexwraiths, some Glaivewraiths and Cogs. Scenario was Total Commitment.

I messed up in the beginning and he got to choose who gets priority, which  promptly was given to me. Like always my opponent then got the double turn on turn 2 and rushed one of my objectives with a big unit of ghosts. He pretty much denied my stronger flank (we had a huge blocker in the middle of the table) and went for my weaker side, clipped my axe Blood Warriors with another unit and killed my Reavers off the objective. My two priests almost killed two of his characters with Bloodboil and the Wrath-Axe, one unit of Skullreapers rushed to retake my objective and the other plus two units of Blood Warriors rushed to the other side. Due to Slaughterborn, an activation of Apoplectic Frenzy on a unit of Skullreapers and the sheer amount of grind potential, his army was gone by the end of turn 3. Even with his cushion of points I ended up winning through having all objectives for a couple turns.

Some thoughts about my list:

  • I am convinced that Slaughterborn, while pricey, is the most competitive Mortals setup
  • -1 rend is pretty common and the effect hits all the working parts (was absolute MVP against Nighthaunt)
  • not having a dedicated hammer is sometimes weird but not having to care about characters is liberating
  • characters dying is not a huge hit and equals Blood Tithe, sometimes sacrificing them via priests is a good move (e.g. Stoker when he no longer has targets or purpose)
  • Wrath-axe was useless in Celestar game (no successful summon) but almost a match winner in the last one, it's almost like having another priest for less points that is not using a leader slot
  • I don't feel like changing anything for now, everything has a clear purpose 
  • maybe kicking the Wrathmongers and trying to squeeze in the Manticore Lord but over all it feels like weakening the core concept of the list

Some thoughts considering Khorne

  • over all, Khorne feels like a mid to low tier 2 army (so pretty much the same as the last 3 years, except some small spikes through Skullreaper + Sayl bomb or Murderhost) which is fine by me, more or less
  • a harsh FAQ for DoK and point changes for SCE and other under-costed armies could do wonders
  • the change from command abilities being used in the hero phase and now being used whenever they become relevant is super awkward, especially if you play AoS for quite some time (it might be more intuitive and interactive in the long run though)
  • the most annoying thing about the new book for me are some unnecessary inconsistencies, i.e. abilities that are similar should work in a similar way (e.g. Skullreaper, Wrathmonger ability on death or 1s on prayers doing 1 or D3 damage) Most of the time this feels like obvious oversights or design-clutter, the weird FAQ on Wrathmongers doesn't help to shake off this notion

I'll keep playing my grindy mortal list until my Bloodthirsters arrive and I'll try to provide some pictures in the future.

Edited by Xasz
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34 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

He was talking about using things purely as roadblocks and sacrificing game pieces for the greater gain and that was interesting

Ita just good fundamentals. Learning to just objectively play the game better/smarter with any/all factions is a big part of the learning curve to AoS. There is a lot of good basic strategies and tricks that can help make you a better player regardless of the faction you choose.

Experienced players (i don't just mean ppl who play alot but people who learn to play smarter) just out perform less experienced players by a large margin. A good player is far more likely to win a game with a sub par army vs a inexperienced player with a tournament winners list. The gap is quite large.

As i mentioned before, some armies play like chess and some play like checkers. The latest book turned Khorne from a noobie friendly checkers army into a chess army. Every decision you make should be absolutely delibrit, never play into your opponent's hand. Don't do the obvious. Stick to your game and wiegh your options with the idea in mind that there is probably something your opponent wants you to do - and don't do that thing.

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One word regarding the Bloodmad Warband that has taken up in popularity the last couple pages.

 It's a nice effect but heavily redundant with the rest of what Khorne does. The actual benefit after you buffed a unit already with +1A or +2A is negligible (considering low to medium model count units). Furthermore, it has a rather hard condition and solves none of Khorne's problems.

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I wish more people would stream their matches so I can watch things play out and see positioning and attack order.

 

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12 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

How does Daemon Prince work? We can take him without him being an ally. He is literally a Daemon. He can be assigned as dedicated to Khorne. This does not give him the Khorne keyword I imagine? 

How does he interact with our army? Can he take Khorne DAEMON HERO artifacts? Can he be buffed at all by things that effect DAEMONS  or KHORNE like Bloodsecrator or Wrathmongers? 

His "Immortal Champion" ability lets him take a god keyword, and the warscroll lists a Daemon Prince of Khorne as having the keywords, Khorne, Daemon, and Hero, so i assume he meets requirements.

 

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@Xasz, when running a Goretide/Slaughterborn army like the one you posted, what do you think about the merits of merging two BW units into one central 15/20 man unit to catapult into the enemy's face early?

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Granted i may not have been very considerate of peoples valid concers, it is largely due to the fact they are raised over and over and people repeatedly make suggestions that seem to go ignored for the sake of complaining more.

18 minutes ago, Impa said:

But when you loose your bloodstoker and if the bloodthirster takes heavy damage before he can do his thing. Things seem to fall like dominos.

So i can't speak to every issue people are having but i feel this maybe something many are dealing with.

So i have been fairly successful so far (in my meta i know yours may be different) with multiple big threats.

I try to just flood the board with things that just scare my opponents. For example multiple Slaughter Priest just slinging Judgments all over place and Blood Boiling key heroes.

Then a Warshrine which can chuck Judgments as well as just be a big fat obstacle for my opponent to deal with.

Then a Slaughterbrute or Chaos Lord on Manticore, their big and scarey and people dont want them anywhere near their stuff.

Then i throw in some key support pieces like Secrator, everyone knows he good but theres already so much to contend with they don't got time to worry about thos guy. Well guess what he walks right up to front line with Banner of Wrath and starts dropping bombs all around him.

Then there is this stupid Stoker but come on with all this other ****** he is like the least of their concers but guess what he is turning my Blood Warriors into beast that i can lob across the field like a grenade.

I'm storming right in with everything i got focusing on getting the best match ups where i can reak the most havok. By now the opponent can't decide what to kill first, its too late... They have to chew thru all this ****** just to get to the objectives now but wait they didn't even bother killing support heroes and here come Skull Reapers to just clean up the mess. Game Over.

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@Bjornas I know you didn't ask me but, I think that concept is "a lot of eggs in one basket". It sounds like it could be great depending on your opponent and the objectives, but from a general standpoint, you're depending on that group doing a lot.

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Well I was going to try a Skulltake Battalion but I may just try this out next game: 

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Goretide

Leaders
Daemon Prince of Khorne (160)
- General
- Trait: Hew the Foe  
- Artefact: Harvester of Skulls  
Exalted Deathbringer with Impaling Spear (80)
- Artefact: Gorecleaver  
Bloodstoker (80)
Bloodsecrator (140)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives

Units
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
5 x Wrathmongers (140)

Battalions
Slaughterborn (180)

Endless Spells
Wrath-Axe (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 140
[/spoilers]

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So is nobody currently using the thirster lists here? Everyone's lists are mortal😂

 

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5 minutes ago, Bjornas said:

@Xasz, when running a Goretide/Slaughterborn army like the one you posted, what do you think about the merits of merging two BW units into one central 15/20 man unit to catapult into the enemy's face early?

20+ feels too unwieldy for my tastes (I tried 30 at some point). I played with units of 15 before which felt rather tanky and still flexible. So if you have some points left, why not.

Up till now I did not have the feeling that the Blood Warriors should be bigger or smaller.  It's not like you want to charge a unit into your opponent every game or turn. I think of it more as a tool than the one and only gimmick of mortals, which refreshingly do not need a lot of CP to function.

... and as another poster said, it distributes the power more evenly through the list, although the difference between 200 and 300 is negligible. 

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23 minutes ago, phizzco said:

@Bjornas I know you didn't ask me but, I think that concept is "a lot of eggs in one basket". It sounds like it could be great depending on your opponent and the objectives, but from a general standpoint, you're depending on that group doing a lot.

Yeah that was my reasoning before as well. But now with the new book I've started to think of it as "one big anvil" or "several small anvils" instead. Especially with Slaughterborn which, coupled with a sprinkle of Bronzed Flesh, can make for a very anvil-y 15 man BW unit. I don't see one of two 10 man units having the same survivability, nor requiring the same amount of focus for your opponent: They'll cut down 6 models and have a largely insignificant 4 man unit left. 9 models left however...

1 minute ago, Xasz said:

20+ feels too unwieldy for my tastes (I tried 30 at some point). I played with units of 15 before which felt rather tanky and still flexible. So if you have some points left, why not.

Up till now I did not have the feeling that the Blood Warriors should be bigger or smaller.  It's not like you want to charge a unit into your opponent every game or turn. I think of it more as a tool than the one and only gimmick of mortals, which refreshingly do not need a lot of CP to function.

... and as another poster said, it distributes the power more evenly through the list, although the difference between 200 and 300 is negligible. 

Yeah I'm trying to avoid having to do several 'catapults' as well, preferrably one initial to put the "anvil" into place, and have them survive for a turn so that my Skullreapers etc can move in.

Note I'm theorizing pretty heavily here and have only tried a 15-man in two 3-turn games so far, but it worked pretty well in one of them.

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