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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

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5 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

Again, Heraldor is meaner, and he does not even need to roll for his abilities (run+retreat+charge or hornblast), and the hornblast happens after movement. Bloodboil is fine, especially in an army that lacks a noteworthy shooting phase.

Heralder is not a priest but yeah its nasty.

But i thought there was a caveat added that the prayers you choose from book only got 1 "casting" attempt now... I would assume that carries over to blood boil as well.

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BTW, does someone know if you want to cast pray for a axe/skull/icon, does it replace the pray for a blessing/prayer or is it a potential third roll?

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13 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

Heralder is not a priest but yeah its nasty.

But i thought there was a caveat added that the prayers you choose from book only got 1 "casting" attempt now... I would assume that carries over to blood boil as well.

The wording is different. The book ones say something like a priest in your arms can chant this, while the warscroll ones say this model can chant one of the following. So you can spam bb, but not frenzy

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15 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

Heralder is not a priest but yeah its nasty.

But i thought there was a caveat added that the prayers you choose from book only got 1 "casting" attempt now... I would assume that carries over to blood boil as well.

Stormcast and Daughters have the same limitations. The special allegiance prayers are once each per turn, but warscroll prayers are not.

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55 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

If you look at the various Priest warscrolls, the only place prayer is mentioned is in flavor text or ability names. There is no Prayer section on the warscrolls like there is with Magic, nor is there a section in the basic rules detailing Prayers.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Downloads//ENG_Lord_Relictor.pdf

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Downloads/Korghos_Bloodsecrator_CB_Web - cropped.pdf

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-chaos-warshrine-en.pdf

So as written, the Alter would only work on the Allegiance Prayers, because they are specifically written as such. I honestly think this is a case of player lingo catching on with the rules writers, and will be tweaked appropriately.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/AoS_Scenery_Skull_Altar_EN.pdf

man i have the battletome with me EVERY single blesing of khorne  starts its rules as this  ... "at the start of your hero phase, 1 friendly model that knows this PRAYER can chant it. If they do make a PRAYER roll  by rolling a dice. On a 1, the model chanting this PRAYER suffers 1 moral wound and the PRAYER is not answered. On a 2-3 the PRAYER is not answered. On 4+ the PRAYER is answered.....

all that prayer word are not in caps in the battletome its just to focus on the word. Man dont know what else proof do you need that a blessing of khorne prayer is a prayer.

 

P.D.: i might have not understand your post or whats  the dilema, 

Edited by Bululu

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@Bululucould you clear something up about Judgments.  At what time do you roll to see if they disappear.  Is it end of the battleround? At the start or end of your next hero phase? 

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2 minutes ago, Easytyger said:

@Bululucould you clear something up about Judgments.  At what time do you roll to see if they disappear.  Is it end of the battleround? At the start or end of your next hero phase? 

At the end of the battleround

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3 minutes ago, Bululu said:

man i have the battletome with me EVERY single blesing of khorne  starts its rules as this  ... "at the start of your hero phase, 1 friendly model that knows this PRAYER can chant it. If they do make a PRAYER roll  by rolling a dice. On a 1, the model chanting this PRAYER suffers 1 moral wound and the PRAYER is not answered. On a 2-3 the PRAYER is not answered. On 4+ the PRAYER is answered.....

all that prayer word are not in caps in the battletome its just to focus on the word. Man dont know what else proof do you need that a blessing of khorne prayer is a prayer.

 

P.D.: i might have not understand your post or whats  the dilema, 

Just me grabbing the wrong warscroll and missing that line of text.

44 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

You are correct, missed that part. So yes you can reroll them, but no they are not limited to once per turn (as "prayer" does still not have an in game definition or limitation outside the specific abilities that mention it).

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So the Hexgorger Skulls are very dependent on you going first in the round unfortunately. If you go second then at best, with a slaughtpriest nearby, you have a 1 in 3 chance of it having any effect on enemy spell casting. 

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1 minute ago, Easytyger said:

So the Hexgorger Skulls are very dependent on you going first in the round unfortunately. If you go second then at best, with a slaughtpriest nearby, you have a 1 in 3 chance of it having any effect on enemy spell casting. 

That is a feature not bug.

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5 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

 

Just me grabbing the wrong warscroll and missing that line of text.

oh sorry m8 didnt see the response before :S, anyway im done for the day good night, hope you all get the battletome soon and we can find together good lists!

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2 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

That is a feature not bug.

Yes a very bad feature lol 

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New to Blades of Khorne. Two quick noob questions:

What weapons are better on Blood Reavers? I feel like the blades are because the Reavers arent really meant for busting heavy armor, but rather taking out other chaff and bearing people on number attacks. What's everyone else opinion, especially with the new rules?
 

If you have a unit of 20 reavers do the hornblowers and icon bearers stack? 

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2 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

New to Blades of Khorne. Two quick noob questions:

What weapons are better on Blood Reavers? I feel like the blades are because the Reavers arent really meant for busting heavy armor, but rather taking out other chaff and bearing people on number attacks. What's everyone else opinion, especially with the new rules?
 

If you have a unit of 20 reavers do the hornblowers and icon bearers stack? 

Command units dont stack. The Meatrippers are usually better... The quicker you can kill anything = better. But there are cases where blades are better cuz your facing someone who ignores rend.

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10 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

Thanks! So I cant just have a 40 man unit with 4 hornblowers? :)

You can but it doesn't stack. You're just making sure if one dies you keep the benefit for the unit.

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8 hours ago, Xasz said:

Pretty much that, we can neither blast them with priests nor use Wrathmongers anymore and rend is a luxury for mortals...

In my Goretide + Bloodmad drafts, the only thing remotely anti-monster is the mighty lord which is... insufficient.

Right now I think our anti-monster will be extremely different, and we’ll Have to get used to killing monsters the old fashioned way... (with an axe). Thanks to the lack of toughness here (fixed wound rolls help), monsters are effectively an entire unit of their own, usually with 12-14 wounds, all of our units can now access an inane amount of attacks and can saturate big monsters. Most beasties have poor save rolls (usually 5+, maybe some rare 4+), and thus It’ll be “death by a thousand cuts”. 

7 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

I used to use his previous ability to get hero hunting with my Skulltake Battalion so I could proc the double damage and mortal wounds more often. But now...yeah...I mean he's fine...but... eh. 

He’s got an extra attack, and his bravery buff has a decent impact. He might be worth it over exalted deatjbringer becUsee the Deathbringer uses CPs which we are really strapped for 

5 hours ago, Xasz said:

The other BTs are at 300 and 280, the abilities of WoK are still rather unique.

 

I think the WoK Bloodthirster is still strong, just in a different way. His command ability can buff an Insensate Rage Bloodthirster or Skarbrand. Heck, even Bloodcrushers would appreciate it. Unfettered Fury thirster looks Interesting as well since he can tie up shooting units and they can’t retreat. His command ability is good for letting an Insensate Rage get into best position to thwack as many enemies as possible. It really feels like Tyrants of a Blood combined with a mortal battalion, maybe Gore Pilgrims, might be worth a shot.    

4 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

It would be ideal to build a list with Skarbrand as my centerpiece but since I don't have any other demons (Bloodmaster, Skullmaster, Skulltaker, Blood Throne, etc...) I have no way to buff other demons or any demonic support. I just have hordes of mortals and Skarbrand and an Insensate Rage Bloodthirster. I planned on getting a 3rd bloodthirster at some point. I just don't know what little demons are worth having or using or how to mix them in with the people part of the army. 

I have no idea why but it really feels like all 3 variants of Bloodthirster+Skarbrand would be an interesting list in a tyrants of Blood battalion, with gore Pilgrims as battleline/support. 

Make WoK General, use Blood Lords, give halo of blood artifact to WoK, get another artifact, give Skullreaver to Insensate Rage, get a third and give Armor of Scorn artifact to Unfettered Fury 

Blood Lords is good because the Command ability is an AOe heal, WoK can fight first, Insensate Rage can reroll hits thanks to WoK.  Unfettered fury can attack ranged units and tie them up, and they can’t retreat 

i’ll write Up a sample list soon

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I noticed there’s a lot of unhappiness in this thread. Which is understandable. The endless “prayers”, mandatory Slaughterpriests, boring rules, etc. 

i mean, we’re still however really good in close combat, thanks to our buffs, and the slaughterhosts are a very cool new toy to play with

our blood Tithe is still a fun allegiance ability, imho more fun than Gloomspite Gitz and Nighthaunt (no offense to them :P, Khorne bless them),  at least our allegiance ability isn’t a minor bonus, and it does significantly change the way we play as we can afford to take more risks than our opponents. 

All in all, I do admit that it almost seems Khorne is an unpopular army (rumor thread was moaning when Khorne revealed at LVO, AOS reddit was up in arms, calling Khorne hypocrite, this that, whatever), which is kinda saddening

but, I do feel that we still have teeth, and imo I think we can take this army somewhere. 

I made a TGA account specifically to join this thread because it was friendly, there is tactics discussion, and it’s nice to find familiar company in this hobby. And I do not regret coming here at all. 

We’ll find a way to get through this obstacle. And who knows? Forbidden Power and the Darkoath might just give us the edge we need to whack that preening undead pope and morathi’s fan club out of tournaments. 

Until then, BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!

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6 hours ago, Warbossironteef said:

Thanks! So I cant just have a 40 man unit with 4 hornblowers? :)

As above, you can, but it doesn't add up/stack.
In addition, while you do get the discount, I don't think 40 Bloodreavers are really worth thaking. 20 are, with Meatripper axes, and smaller pockets of 10 are aswell.

So why not the 40? Well, without Battleshock immunity and thaking Blood Tithe into consideration, they are, in my opinion best used as fodder or objective huggers.

On the flipside, 10 Bloodwarriors with Gorefists are good now.  A lot of other units became slighty cheaper or easier in use, so I feel the 140 point units are often the focus of 'what is good'. 

4 hours ago, Kaz said:

I noticed there’s a lot of unhappiness in this thread. Which is understandable. The endless “prayers”, mandatory Slaughterpriests, boring rules, etc. 

i mean, we’re still however really good in close combat, thanks to our buffs, and the slaughterhosts are a very cool new toy to play with

our blood Tithe is still a fun allegiance ability, imho more fun than Gloomspite Gitz and Nighthaunt (no offense to them :P, Khorne bless them),  at least our allegiance ability isn’t a minor bonus, and it does significantly change the way we play as we can afford to take more risks than our opponents. 

All in all, I do admit that it almost seems Khorne is an unpopular army (rumor thread was moaning when Khorne revealed at LVO, AOS reddit was up in arms, calling Khorne hypocrite, this that, whatever), which is kinda saddening

but, I do feel that we still have teeth, and imo I think we can take this army somewhere. 

I made a TGA account specifically to join this thread because it was friendly, there is tactics discussion, and it’s nice to find familiar company in this hobby. And I do not regret coming here at all. 

We’ll find a way to get through this obstacle. And who knows? Forbidden Power and the Darkoath might just give us the edge we need to whack that preening undead pope and morathi’s fan club out of tournaments. 

Until then, BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!

I think the real reason unhappiness occured is simple; Khorne got a Wizard Tower and Magic Spells. It's litterly what nobody asked for but what we simply got.

While our Slaughterpriests and Magic Spells are certainly great, the whole reason it doesn't gel well with many is that it's often mentioned in lore from roughly the last 30 years that Khorne (especially in Fantasy) favours melee combat, 'simple slaughter' and despises the use of magic or basically anything that isn't close combat focused. This makes the new release very ironic, comedic and not really in the positive sence for lore fans. 

I fully agree with you that we are still great in close combat, and mainly due to our magic and abilities can continue that. I must say it's weird to have Battleshock largely removed for Mortals however. In that sence I think the Wizard Tower could have acted in a different manner aswell ;) 

My perspective on new Khorne is:
- You will have to like the Slaughterpriests and Endless Spells, they are our 'gifts' in this new book. Not using them kind of defeats the bonus we get from our Allegiance. It would be like not using a Herdstone while you are Beasts of Chaos for example. The same applies to the Hosts from my perspective also. The allround army buffs available (small as they seem) is what keeps us around.

- We can focus one unit to be an amazing powerhouse. It's just that as an army we are less of a wave of continious attacks. Battleshock playes a role in that part but even more larger is that as an allround army we've become significantly slower, due to how the Bloodstoker is limited and the Wrath of Khorne's Command Ability is gone.

- You can focus much more specialized if you really want to make a particular unit work. We have a bucketload of Battalions, all of them pretty much focussing on one type of unit. It will make that particular type of unit work well. As before, I pretty much like everything that doesn't cost 180 points (which is 90% of the book or something). Reasons being: - Skullcrushers can be a tarpit but otherwise are very hard to keep into the bubble; - Skullreapers have some great offense but so have Bloodletters and the difference between them now is smaller than ever. 

Rounding it with the pro's and con's of this army:
+ Way better ranged support than ever, from Endless Spells to Skullcannons with Wrathmongers
+ Options to heavily focus on one type of unit you really like, the diversity in Khorne armies from my gut feeling should massively increase
+ Actual acces to a good MSU unit with cheap great smaller heroes

- We are slower as before, we can kamikaze Bloodthirster, but otherwise the army as a whole is significantly slower
- If you want to kill Monsters (or named characters) with relative ease you have to really commit to it, which can bite you
- Despite diversity, my personal top competitive view on Khorne is the same as it used to be, you either go 'Gore Pilgrims style' or 'Bloodletters/Bloodthirsters'

All and all I'm not sad, mad or upset. Do think this is the funniest Khorne release ever though. 

Cheers,

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5 hours ago, Kaz said:

It really feels like Tyrants of a Blood combined with a mortal battalion, maybe Gore Pilgrims, might be worth a shot

Why even bother with Gore Pilgrims?

Pressing the maximum of 4 behemoths/BTs into one list and having two priests for support sounds way better to me than paying tax for another battalion and Mr. Banner. Who cannot keep up with the important models, does only add 1A to weapons that already have 4-6 and has a good chance of not getting these models wholly within.

I highly doubt that he is a valuable addition for a monster list, we are just deeply programmed to automatically add him to everything...

 

5 hours ago, Kaz said:

Right now I think our anti-monster will be extremely different, and we’ll Have to get used to killing monsters the old fashioned way... (with an axe). Thanks to the lack of toughness here (fixed wound rolls help), monsters are effectively an entire unit of their own, usually with 12-14 wounds, all of our units can now access an inane amount of attacks and can saturate big monsters. Most beasties have poor save rolls (usually 5+, maybe some rare 4+), and thus It’ll be “death by a thousand cuts”. 

I don't think we are on the same page regarding the definition of "monster".

I'm talking about models like the vampire lord on dragon, star drakes and the lot. Models that hit like a truck and are rather survivable due to good saves, healing capabilities or debuffs. BTs fall into this category as well, just on the less survivable and cheaper spectrum.

Just do the math on how many no rend attacks you'll need to down a VLoZD, disregarding the fact that he can heal. Now factor in that you will not always be the one to hit first and that your opponent can interact with you through clipping your unit on both sides or just deny you combat (usually these high end monsters have high movement and flying).

The one unit I can see work for this kind of style are Blood Warriors, as they will always hit at least once and have some stuff going for them with Bloodmad and Goretide. In a game you will probably get them to 3-5 attacks per model (I know you could do 6, but that's not easy to pull of in an actual).  There is a good chance you can trade favorably by sacrificing units of 10 Blood Warriors but it is not really reliable. That's the point were I would ally in some daemons and leave the mortals only territory. Skullfiends with WoK, Valkia and whatever doesn't sound half bad in my opinion. 

 

9 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

Stormcast and Daughters have the same limitations. The special allegiance prayers are once each per turn, but warscroll prayers are not.

I've lost track, can we spam BB or not?

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One more fun-fact about Tyrants of Blood and Bloodlords.

Exalted Greater Daemon of Khorne / Unfettered Fury BT has "Drawn in for the Kill" ability - at the start of enemy movement phase pick 1 enemy unit within 3" of this model, that unit cannot retreat in that phase.

So basically - if your Exalted BT has Halo of Blood - he always strike first and activate each Bloodthirster in battalion and your opponent can`t do anything to prevent this (only way to avoid triple BT activation is to avoid your Exalted/BT with Halo of Blood (if he`s not in combat, he cannot activate battalion ability. Even more - he has CA - Rejoice in Exalted Slaughter which he can activate in EACH CC phase to pile in TO combat from 6" so enemy must leave at last 6" bubble around him to prevent him from pile-in to combat and activate triple BT)).

So - charge into two or more enemy units with Exalted BT, kill one, stay within 3" of second. In enemy movement phase "Drawn in for the Kill" this unit and you have guarantee second multi-activation of your Bloodthirsters (in last game my opponent was trying to retreat from combat with Exalted/Halo of Blood to avoid this and kill other two BT before they can )

Maybe it`s nothing special but this is another interesting combo with Tyrants/Bloodlords.

 

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57 minutes ago, Xasz said:

I've lost track, can we spam BB or not?

As I read it we can spam Blood Boil and Blood Bind. At least the Warscroll doesn't mention it.
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/AoS_Slaughterpriest_EN.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2QVV5cHmbEe3B-svP_tCmU7J_I1Vp-RJ-ElJGWiIYLGGc5JApCLGmgrtg

But we can't spam the additional Blood Blessings? The issue with the reviews these days is that they are much more thinking about their NDA with GW ;) 
IMG_9824.jpg

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9 minutes ago, Killax said:

As I read it we can spam Blood Boil and Blood Bind. At least the Warscroll doesn't mention it.

Which is pretty much all I care about, spamming the other prayers doesn't really work due to negative redundancy, being non-stackable or there is just no /limited value due to enforced natural 6s.

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One question.

Artifact - Halo of Blood: The bearer fights at the start of the combat phase before the players pick any other unit to fight in that combat phase. 

Does this mean that if it is my turn I fight first with the bearer and then I can choose another unit to fight as it is my turn before my opponent choose the first unit to fight ??

And if it is my enemy turn it just mean the bearer fights and then my enemy choose the first unit to fight ?

 

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Just now, Xasz said:

Which is pretty much all I care about, spamming the other prayers doesn't really work due to negative redundancy, being non-stackable or there is just no /limited value due to enforced natural 6s.

I hear you, though as can be seen on the Warscroll, Blood Bind changed significantly, so it's either a 4", 5" or 6" push. Not the full movement, so it's less effective on very speedy units by comparison. A small change but noteworthy.

The way I see it Slaughterpriest and Bloodsecrator are a good choice for every army. They just both usually buff a unit or add to the offense. All in all I can see it working out. But by large focused on the cheaper units.

While I often feel I'm almost alone in liking Bloodletters a lot, 30 for 300 is perfect for me. In addition their Bravery 10 comes in handy now and being able to fight again with such a mass can really shift a battle in some key turns. I just really like this.

As mentioned above, where before we had army wide buffs, it now changed to more unit buffs. To me this still means we are competitive but you will have to find the combinations for that unit to work out very well. If you want to go heavy Bloodthirsters, it's better than ever, if you want to go heavy Slaughterpriests, that's better than ever too.

The only two units, who's Battalions I'm not impressed with are Skullcrusher's Brass Stampede and Bloodcrusher's Blood Stampede. By large because these units work, but not so much when you need to be able to have models within 1" to benifit from that impact hit. Without doubt Skullcrushers can be great, but I'd rather use a unit of 2x 3 or 6 of them in a Slaughterpriest heavy army due to Bronzed Flesh being amazing on them now. 

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