AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[MotherGoose]

Our new tome seems really cool. Played my first battle with it yesterday vs KO - went to battle round 5 drawing in points and ended up losing but it was so fun! Keeping in mind I had to use everything I own to get to 2k so not exactly a well thought out list, but still awesome.

Couple of things I noticed...

I mainly play demons and they always felt a little lackluster and terrible in combat considering they are *the* combat army. They feel way better overall! - bloodletters 2 wounds each with the 5+ ward when 8 inches or more away are much tougher to take down. 2 attacks each 3s and 3s r1 is double the attacks they had and better at hitting. Easy access to hero phase movement and some other shenanigans means they're much more likely to get in before dying.

I played the blood lord faction which means all bloodletters do mortals on 5s and 6s instead of just 6s *(pretty sure this includes other units such as the hero and bloodcrushers too!)* my bloodreaper and the bloodletters/crushers put in some serious work. Before they felt like they hit like a wet flannel, now they can be scary again - scary mortal wounds, access to high rend from prayers/tithe etc. And harder to bring down.

Thirsters with extra wounds and the ward are great. We have a tiny amount of items/traits but imo they're all great and usable.

Prayers are still a must. Which reminds me, the bloodreaper is a priest now!

In general everything feels better meaning if key targets are removed quickly it's not *such* a pain, the whole army can be good.

I think both demons and mortals will be better off, and although the subfactions are aimed at one or the other, a mixture of both works without gimping much.

Edited March 19, 2023 by MotherGoose

[Hannibal]

Can anyone post the Khorgoraths Keywords, please? I´m especially interested wether they can now be buffed. In the old tome they missed almost any keyword that was needed for the good buffs.

 

[Lord Krungharr]

Skullcrushers will be super tanks then!  That's interesting; I find myself enjoying more elite and heavy cavalry armies lately.  Guess it's just less to transport that I enjoy maybe?  

[The Red King]

Does anyone know if the coalition rules are still in to bring some beasts along?

[Mazrick]

you can still bring Beasts 1 in 4 but they only get the Khorne Keyword, most every buff is Blades of Khorne.

[GunslingerOy]

Smarter players than me, quickest way to ramp blood tithe in the new book BoK player controls? Prayer plus blowing riptooth, blowing immortal wrarthmonger and...?

[The Red King]

1 hour ago, Mazrick said:

you can still bring Beasts 1 in 4 but they only get the Khorne Keyword, most every buff is Blades of Khorne.

The bloodsecrator reviews say khorne units but I wouldnt be surprised if they're wrong.

 

But bullgor with a doombull have all their power baked into the scroll so still fine with me.

[Kaleb Daark]

Check out the goon hammer review;

https://www.goonhammer.com
 

 

[Mazrick]

That they do and who doesn't want a few minotaurs of Khorne.   I've been playing with them in lists as well as knights plus lord on kark/mount as their backed into the scroll as well.

[Kaleb Daark]

5 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Skullcrushers will be super tanks then!  That's interesting; I find myself enjoying more elite and heavy cavalry armies lately.  Guess it's just less to transport that I enjoy maybe?  

That and heavy cav armies just look the shizzle.

now all I need is to dream up a nice alternative conversion for the skullcannon instead of the khorne county chopper.

[Kaleb Daark]

4 minutes ago, Mazrick said:

That they do and who doesn't want a few minotaurs of Khorne.   I've been playing with them in lists as well as knights plus lord on kark/mount as their backed into the scroll as well.

That would make me just so happy…

a khornate minotaur lord that lets you take minotaurs as battleline in a blades army.

I mean they could even call him taurox if they got really stuck.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Kaleb Daark

[Lord Krungharr]

43 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

That and heavy cav armies just look the shizzle.

now all I need is to dream up a nice alternative conversion for the skullcannon instead of the khorne county chopper.

That is a crackin' force!  Oh how I miss really old Daemons army full of the Bloodcrushers.  

For your alternate Skull Cannon, how about an Ironblaster, but with a Juggernaut and Blood letter or Khorne-masked Ogor pilot?  I always thought the motorcycle thing was just a really strange design choice too.  I would probably make one more like a mechanized Blood Slaughterer/mini-Lord of Skulls with Juggernaut legs and a wheel in the back (like a tripod), and then whirling blades on the sides to be like the Bloodletter crew.

[The Red King]

I'm barely on the internet these days. Anywhere to see the points changes so I can start list theorizing or just pause the youtube reviews?

[Grimrock]

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

I'm barely on the internet these days. Anywhere to see the points changes so I can start list theorizing or just pause the youtube reviews?

I just checked out the AoS Coach review on youtube and it has a full breakdown on points at the end. He's also really specific and did what looks like a word for word copy of the allegiance abilities/traits/artefacts along with in-depth changes to the different warscrolls. You need to have the existing book or app to know the full story, but as long as you do it's the best breakdown I've seen yet. Still hoping Facehammer will do a proper review once the book is out so I don't have to cross-reference so much but this should be good enough for now.

After going through it again I'm feeling a little more hopeful for the book. The general allegiance rules have seen a pretty good glow up. Artefacts/traits/slaughterhosts aren't mind blowing but there are a couple cool little combos you can pull off. The new prayers are pretty fantastic and the addition of the priest keyword to so many models means you'll be able to take advantage of them regardless of what type of army you want to run (also a priest bloodthirster just sounds fantastic). Similarly the new tithe abilities are really good with Murderlust an obvious standout. Everything seems to be tuned towards making sure you get to combat quickly and at relatively full strength.

As usual there are a number of dud warscrolls but generally we're better off than we used to be. There were a lot of sidegrade changes (like skullreapers gaining a rend and +1 to hit against large units but losing re-roll hits so they can't fish for mortals anymore and swapping Murderous to the Last for the strictly inferior murder rolls) or improvements that just don't seem to be enough (like blood warriors getting a save and rend, but still wounding on 4's for some unknown reason). There are a number of good improvements though like bloodreavers (murder rolls should do more damage then they ever could otherwise), skullcrushers, bloodcrushers, and bloodletters (2" reach! finally!). Gorechosen heroes have also gotten a lot better combat wise, but I'm still not sure if it's enough to make me want to reach for them over priests or bloodthirsters. 

Honestly I think the biggest weakness we have is the book specific battle tactics and grand strategies aren't super great. You should be able to do a few of the tactics depending on your matchup, but the grand strategies are pretty awful all around. We'll definitely have some issues scoring points, but maybe that's ok as we'll be forced to kill the opponent off faster to make sure they can't score either. Very thematic. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Grimrock

[The Red King]

Just to be clear coalition units do not gain the "blades of khorne" keyword, only the Khorne keyword.

[Grimrock]

5 hours ago, The Red King said:

Just to be clear coalition units do not gain the "blades of khorne" keyword, only the Khorne keyword.

Yeah, same as the rest of the chaos tomes so far. I also don't remember seeing anything that specifically works with Khorne so coalition units are pretty much hosed. Chaos marauder horsemen might still be decent screens, but I can't think of much else. 

[Salyx]

Cockatrice or Chaos Giants seem to be a pretty good pick for Coalition units. Their Debuffs can really help. 

[The Red King]

16 hours ago, Grimrock said:

Yeah, same as the rest of the chaos tomes so far. I also don't remember seeing anything that specifically works with Khorne so coalition units are pretty much hosed. Chaos marauder horsemen might still be decent screens, but I can't think of much else. 

Humorous fact. The more coaliton units you bring the easier it is to do the "no cowards among us" battle tactic (all BLADES OF KHORNE units have to be within 8" of an enemy at the end of the turn) since they even keyword locked the challenges.

 

[Primes]

On 3/20/2023 at 6:36 PM, Grimrock said:

I just checked out the AoS Coach review on youtube and it has a full breakdown on points at the end. He's also really specific and did what looks like a word for word copy of the allegiance abilities/traits/artefacts along with in-depth changes to the different warscrolls. You need to have the existing book or app to know the full story, but as long as you do it's the best breakdown I've seen yet. Still hoping Facehammer will do a proper review once the book is out so I don't have to cross-reference so much but this should be good enough for now.

After going through it again I'm feeling a little more hopeful for the book. The general allegiance rules have seen a pretty good glow up. Artefacts/traits/slaughterhosts aren't mind blowing but there are a couple cool little combos you can pull off. The new prayers are pretty fantastic and the addition of the priest keyword to so many models means you'll be able to take advantage of them regardless of what type of army you want to run (also a priest bloodthirster just sounds fantastic). Similarly the new tithe abilities are really good with Murderlust an obvious standout. Everything seems to be tuned towards making sure you get to combat quickly and at relatively full strength.

As usual there are a number of dud warscrolls but generally we're better off than we used to be. There were a lot of sidegrade changes (like skullreapers gaining a rend and +1 to hit against large units but losing re-roll hits so they can't fish for mortals anymore and swapping Murderous to the Last for the strictly inferior murder rolls) or improvements that just don't seem to be enough (like blood warriors getting a save and rend, but still wounding on 4's for some unknown reason). There are a number of good improvements though like bloodreavers (murder rolls should do more damage then they ever could otherwise), skullcrushers, bloodcrushers, and bloodletters (2" reach! finally!). Gorechosen heroes have also gotten a lot better combat wise, but I'm still not sure if it's enough to make me want to reach for them over priests or bloodthirsters. 

Honestly I think the biggest weakness we have is the book specific battle tactics and grand strategies aren't super great. You should be able to do a few of the tactics depending on your matchup, but the grand strategies are pretty awful all around. We'll definitely have some issues scoring points, but maybe that's ok as we'll be forced to kill the opponent off faster to make sure they can't score either. Very thematic. 

Hey, could you or anyone sell me on Bloodcrushers? Love the models but they seem pretty underwhelming.

[Grimrock]

4 hours ago, Primes said:

Hey, could you or anyone sell me on Bloodcrushers? Love the models but they seem pretty underwhelming.

Well if you look at them without considering skullcrushers I think they're really solid. 180 points for three five wound models with a 3+ save is already good. They're fast for the faction and that combines well with the extra movement we have now. They kick out a respectable number of mortal wounds on the charge with impact hits and their blades, especially in bloodlords (pretty sure they'll have the bloodletter keyword so they should get mortals on 5+ right?). I think in units of 3 they're solid advanced units to take and hold objectives and should beat most chaff with relative ease. A 6 man unit should work as an excellent anvil while also dealing a respectable amount of damage. 

I think their main issue is how they compare to skullcrushers. I'm pretty sure they're similar for overall damage if you're taking bloodlords, but for 20 points more skullcrushers get a 2+ save and a ward against spell mortals. Skullcrushers also get access to run and charge with the bloodsecrator. The thing is with skullcrushers being better I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them get some nerfs if khorne starts doing well at tournaments so maybe bloodcrushers are a safer purchase? Also I think bloodcrushers look a lot cooler but that's just personal opinion.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Grimrock

[MotherGoose]

3 hours ago, Grimrock said:

Well if you look at them without considering skullcrushers I think they're really solid. 180 points for three five wound models with a 3+ save is already good. They're fast for the faction and that combines well with the extra movement we have now. They kick out a respectable number of mortal wounds on the charge with impact hits and their blades, especially in bloodlords (pretty sure they'll have the bloodletter keyword so they should get mortals on 5+ right?). I think in units of 3 they're solid advanced units to take and hold objectives and should beat most chaff with relative ease. A 6 man unit should work as an excellent anvil while also dealing a respectable amount of damage. 

I think their main issue is how they compare to skullcrushers. I'm pretty sure they're similar for overall damage if you're taking bloodlords, but for 20 points more skullcrushers get a 2+ save and a ward against spell mortals. Skullcrushers also get access to run and charge with the bloodsecrator. The thing is with skullcrushers being better I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them get some nerfs if khorne starts doing well at tournaments so maybe bloodcrushers are a safer purchase? Also I think bloodcrushers look a lot cooler but that's just personal opinion.

Just to add to this great write up:

Bloodcrushers can also be triggered by the bloodmasters ability to attack immediately after him (unless they faqd it or it changes in the new book?).

They also now have a 5+ ward vs all ranged and magic so long as they are 8"+ away from enemies, whereas skullcrushers only have a ward vs magic.

They hit on 2s vs heroes in reapers of vengeance, or mortal wounds on 5+ in blood Lords, so a simple +1 attack to them and suddenly 3 of them are 10 attacks with 5+ doing mortals in addition to those impact mortals they could easily nuke support heroes and super tanky units, whereas the skullcrushers may fail (rend 2 weapon still hits on 4s too)

They can both be buffed up really well and are so similar. In general though the bloodcrushers do better vs tanky save units due to the mortal wound attacks on top of the charge, they're cheaper which can all add up, and vs low rend they're just as tanky/more tanky when using +1 to save command. I see skullcrushers as more of a tanky holder unit and bloodcrushers as the impact hitters.

Bloodcrushers also have a model return if you get a 1 for battleshoco (you can roll even if they literally can't fail).

If you prefer demons, go bloodcrushers, if you prefer mortals, go skullcrushers. They're both amazing now imo. Will have to wait for Saturday to truly know, as good as some of the YouTube videos are it still doesn't give the whole picture with keywords etc.

Also on the subject of our new tome... I actually think blood warriors are great now. Yeah they still wound on 4s but they gained rend and a 3+ save, I did a battle where I kitted them out with the parry fist so all 6s to save dished a mortal back to the enemy, when they die they actually do damage now with 2 rolls per model 5+s doing a mortal too (they no longer have to 'pile in and fight' before being removed, which usually meant they couldn't hit anything anyway if you took them from the back and even if they could fight they hit like wet noodles.

Now they're tanky 3+, can be returned on 4+s, ignore spells on 5+, dish out mortals on 6+ to save and potentially do a mortal or two when dying AND gained better attacks with rend. The glaive is also now rend 2 damage 2 so the champ is a bit of a beast hitting and wounding on 3s r2 d2.

I'm pretty hyped. So hyped I preordered the special edition tome a few days ago which I never usually do... didn't even bother with the last tome just used online sources and the app, so I'll return here if I find any tasty combos that the YouTube videos may have glossed over! I've also painted 5 wrathmongers (5+ save still boo), the last 11 bloodletters I hadn't painted and 3 bloodcrushers in the last few days!

Edited March 22, 2023 by MotherGoose

[medivouk]

I've got my first game with the new book on Tuesday.  I'm wanting to try building around bloodletters so I'm running the following list:

Khorne- bloodlords

 

Whip thirster- arcane tome -330

 

Herald on foot general, embodiment of wrath, Tunnel master, bronzed flesh prayer -110

 

Herald on chariot, killer instinct prayer -160

 

20 bloodletters -360

20 bloodletters -360

5 flesh hounds -100

 

6 bloodcrushers -360

Skull cannon -140

 

Wrath axe -70

Total 1990

1 drop, all in a battle regiment.

 

wish me luck. I'm hoping there will be enough bloodletters left at the end of a round of combat to use the blood thrones recursion, as well as from embodiment of wrath to really attrition people to death...

 

[ibel]

Very cool, why not?!

2 Question:

-Are u sure a Khonre Unit can become a Wizzard with arcane Tome (?! And sry LORE ?!?!?)

- mAybe u can/will splitt a few Units to get more Units for Bloodpoints ?!

[medivouk]

Ha. I can't ally in a wizard.. nothing game wise I cam see stopping me giving him a wizard hat... 

36 minutes ago, ibel said:

Very cool, why not?!

2 Question:

-Are u sure a Khonre Unit can become a Wizzard with arcane Tome (?! And sry LORE ?!?!?)

- mAybe u can/will splitt a few Units to get more Units for Bloodpoints ?!

1: I'm fairly sure it's only Lore stopping me. And I'm not sold on any of the demon relics. The 'thirster is gonna get focused down, so bringing his own Arcane shield is kinda like him being a priest as well.

 

2: I've gone for 2x20 and 1x6 for two reasons, one, so that they don't get popped before I have chance to use 'embodiment of wrath' and the blood throne prayer to regen more guys. 

 

And two, so I can focus my buffs more easily. The 3d6" charge from the bloodthirster, killing frenzy and bronzed flesh are all single target, so I'm aiming to get max return on my investment.

 

 

[Enoby]

Just curious, as someone who played Blades of Khorne a long time ago, how is this new book? Does it finally feel like "Khorne"?