AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Hannibal]

Hi guys,

 

I have a bunch of Khorne Daemons lying around, but I´m sick of painting red. Any other suitable color schemes?

 

HTG

[Grimrock]

6 hours ago, Hannibal said:

Hi guys,

 

I have a bunch of Khorne Daemons lying around, but I´m sick of painting red. Any other suitable color schemes?

 

HTG

There are some really slick white schemes out there. I heard the idea came from some old lore that khorne daemons all came out of the warp white and only became red as they soaked themselves in blood. I've never tried it because I realllly don't like painting white, but it can look amazing if you're up for the challenge.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Grimrock

[kahadin]

I did my daemons in light tones, you can see them in the thread below:

 

I really like the way my  flesh hounds turned out. They are apothecary white over wraithbone.

[ogarrah]

On 4/1/2021 at 5:28 AM, Hannibal said:

Hi guys,

 

I have a bunch of Khorne Daemons lying around, but I´m sick of painting red. Any other suitable color schemes?

 

HTG

I wrote a blog post a while back about a super easy paint scheme you can pull off really quickly with minimal effort, with the caveat that it's rather sloppy, check out the post if you want a tutorial and my thoughts:

Easy-Peasy Flamin' Daemons - Painting for Chumps #2 - The Neckbeard Monthly - The Grand Alliance Community (tga.community)

If this isn't for you, there's also various paint schemes in the battle tome, and I'm sure there's loads online as well, Goonhammer has a How to Paint Everything article on Khorne daemons, but iirc they're just different variations of the standard red, here's the link if you want to check it out:

How to Paint Everything: Daemons of Khorne – Goonhammer

[Sharklone]

God I love Khorne. I would give my worldly possessions for them to be at the standard their lore implies they should be.

We have all these 80pt heroes who, in the lore should be absolute animals on the table. Most of them don't even have rend.
 

Perhaps the most disappointing is the mighty lord of khorne though. This is how the battletome describes him;

Clad in iron and brass, and commanding countless savage warriors, the Lords of Khorne are the Blood God’s greatest mortal champions. The deep scars that criss-cross their bulging muscles tell of lifetimes spent waging wars and committing atrocities. When a Lord of Khorne espies a worthy enemy, he falls upon them like the blade of a guillotine, bringing swift and inescapable death. He wades through ranks of soldiers with the full fury of his god, severing heads with every swing of his axe and roaring challenges for any brave or foolish enough to answer. Under showers of arterial blood he butchers champions and monsters, kings and beasts. All are but skulls to be piled high in honour of Khorne.

How is this represented on the table?
3 attacks, 3s and 3s, -1, d3 damage.
This dude should be an expensive eltharion level foot hero.

make me sad

[Charleston]

The BoK Tome was a lazy carryover from the 1.0 tome. The changes were mostly wording updates to bring the book in line with the new edition, some alligience abilities and buffs to Bloodthirsters to sell more of them. The few reworks we had were there to simplify the faction. There is a huge mismatch between lore and gameplay. While Khorne is supposed to be played recklessly, it actually can´t as you die on the spot asap as you leave a single buff bubble. The internal balance is a huge mess that punishes lists that don´t use Bloodthirsters, Slaughterpriests and Bloodsecrators. We have many "just don´t pick them" units, many of them heroes and daemon options (like Bloodcrushers, Skullcannons and most heralds). Bloodreavers have many trap rules that suggest to build around them to increase their attacks, which in reality simply doesn´t work. 

[Battlefury]

Came back after several time of not playing the army and as I see, it didn't went for the better. Essentially, I will have to go into the Tyrants list with those 4 BTs, right?

Seeing it from a competetive standpoint here, i want to have at least a chance to win. What do you think about it?

[Perturbato]

Well i found that we are not top tier, so people will have fun versus us ^^.

And versus every range army we will have a bad time

 But i have a lot of fun with my skulls versus the enemy magic. Yeah Tyrant of blood looks like the easy path but only if you play in a competitive The rest of the time you can go with bloodbounds or slave to darkness .. but you may surprise the opponent, for exemple i managed to soak an army of LRL with the amount of health points in my bloodbound army once .. but now they are getting their movement increased as the rest of their army bonuses .. yeah when i think of khorne versus other Battletomes it's a bit sad, you have to use Slaughterpriest, Bloodsecrators, Skullreapers, bloodthirsters and StD units because using the rest is like going in the game with handicap.

[Charleston]

I've made some toughts about how a possible improvement to the BoK could look rulewise. Below are some ideas of mine. I would love to see some feedback on them, maybe someone feels fun enough to playtest them.

Alligience Abilities:

• Waves of Murder
  • Each Khorne unit that performed a successfull charge  this turn is affected by Waves of Murder until end of turn.
  • Whenever a Khorne Hero without the Monster Keyword performs a successfull charge, this unit can not be picked as target for shooting attacks until the next hero phase. 
• Locust
  • Reroll all hits when performed a charge and within 16" of a Khorne Hero.
• Blood Tithe
  • Blood Tithe points no longer get lost after using a blood tithe related ability. Each ability can be only used once a turn if not stated otherwise.
• Prayers and Judgement
  • Allign with DoK change (only one prayer per priest + Judgement and no longer Warscroll prayer+ Alligience Prayer + Judgement)
  • Rework Brass Icon so it no longer makes more model flee but instead disables rules that allow to automatically pass bravery tests
  • Remove the healing Spell. Khorne doesn´t provide healthcare.
  • Add a prayer that allows models in chosen unit to fight after death ("berserk rule") if it not have already such an ability. If target has already such an ability, instead provide +1 Attack
• Suballigiences:
  • Use Waves of Murder as hook to provide some usefull buffs that allow to diversify the gameplay. This could look like the following:
    • Affected Unit gets the "Berserk" rule allowing to fight after death. This could allow more damage against opponents hammer units.
    • Affected Unit gets additional Rend or Attack on Meele weapons.
    • Affected Unit fights first. This would provide Khorne a 40k-like attack order which is quite nice. The example below shows how it could be worded
  • GORETIDE: GORETIDE units affected by the Waves of Murder may be selected to fight before other units in the fight phase.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Charleston

[Perturbato]

what are your trying to do ? make every unit usefull ? are you crazy ????? People will stop laughing at us

[Zamik]

I really like the Waves of Murder idea, since it would really amp up the Goretide's Ever Onwards ability, rewarding Bloodreavers for what they should be doing anyway--rather than forcing them to hang back in their buff bubbles.

I'd like to see some Bravery buff attached to it, or applied generally to the army. It boggles my mind that warriors who have dedicated their lives to the Path of Skulls should have to worry about Battleshock. They're fundamentalists who see killing and dying for Khorne as acts of worship--what could entice them to hold their lives so dear all of a sudden?

[Battlefury]

3 hours ago, Charleston said:

I've made some toughts about how a possible improvement to the BoK could look rulewise. Below are some ideas of mine. I would love to see some feedback on them, maybe someone feels fun enough to playtest them.

Alligience Abilities:

• Waves of Murder
  • Each Khorne unit that performed a successfull charge  this turn is affected by Waves of Murder until end of turn.
  • Whenever a Khorne Hero without the Monster Keyword performs a successfull charge, this unit can not be picked as target for shooting attacks until the next hero phase. 
• Locust
  • Reroll all hits when performed a charge and within 16" of a Khorne Hero.
• Blood Tithe
  • Blood Tithe points no longer get lost after using a blood tithe related ability. Each ability can be only used once a turn if not stated otherwise.
• Prayers and Judgement
  • Allign with DoK change (only one prayer per priest + Judgement and no longer Warscroll prayer+ Alligience Prayer + Judgement)
  • Rework Brass Icon so it no longer makes more model flee but instead disables rules that allow to automatically pass bravery tests
  • Remove the healing Spell. Khorne doesn´t provide healthcare.
  • Add a prayer that allows models in chosen unit to fight after death ("berserk rule") if it not have already such an ability. If target has already such an ability, instead provide +1 Attack
• Suballigiences:
  • Use Waves of Murder as hook to provide some usefull buffs that allow to diversify the gameplay. This could look like the following:
    • Affected Unit gets the "Berserk" rule allowing to fight after death. This could allow more damage against opponents hammer units.
    • Affected Unit gets additional Rend or Attack on Meele weapons.
    • Affected Unit fights first. This would provide Khorne a 40k-like attack order which is quite nice. The example below shows how it could be worded
  • GORETIDE: GORETIDE units affected by the Waves of Murder may be selected to fight before other units in the fight phase.

I like your idea, it would bring a lot of helping feature to the army, as it is a total lackluster in comparioson to other books.

What I would like to further change would be base profiles of some units, as most of them are very expensive for what they can do.

Increase the movement of most units by +2" ( since speed is our only chance in the curent shooting meta ).
Blood Thirster Save should be a 3+. If it would stay at 4+, give him a save after save of 4+.
Add rend to units like Skull Reapers, Blood Warriors.
Give the units a reliable damage output by changing D3 & D6 to their average value.


If anyone would like to redesign the army for inofficial purpose, let me know please!

[Perturbato]

Hey i got my hand on Skarbrand and a Bloodthirster for cheap money lately and i was think at starting a project in going to a Tyrant of Blood/Balefull lord ... or Tyrant of Blood/Bloodlords .. 

Bloodlords looks like the best because of the Halo but Baleful lords looks like i can enter the melee sooner .. what do you, experience players, think of it ?

I'm thinking going with WoK BT for General, a BToUF and Skaarbrand then add Gorepilgrim, hexgorger skulls and try to have it go. Do you think only 2 BT + Skarbrand is enough ?

[Agent of Chaos]

@Charleston @Battlefury

Biggest change I want to see is being able to bank unspent bloodtithe. No other summoning army's resource is used up in that way. No other army uses the same resource to choose between summoning and allegiance abilities. 

In addition, I would like to see a little more bloodtithe generated so it feels like we have allegiance abilities available all game, instead of at 2 or 3 key moments. Something like; enemy heroes and monsters generate 2 bloodtithe when slain, signifying the additional worthiness of their skulls to Khorne. 

I agree that Khorne should have some more inbuilt battleshock protection, if not outright ignore OBR style, and our heroes could do with some melee buffs/reliable damage.

Skullreapers and Bloodwarriors to have rend -1 (happy for Bloodreavers to lose that option), Bloodwarriors to wound on 3+, Bloodthirsters to have a 5+ FNP.

I would not support our Priests being limited to one prayer per turn like DOK, unless their points go down and/or our prayers became easier to cast.

You make those minor changes and you have gone a long way to fixing Khorne. As for the "dont pick them" units; those need a warscroll re-write to be saved. 

[Roark]

On 4/3/2021 at 11:14 PM, Charleston said:

Bloodreavers have many trap rules that suggest to build around them to increase their attacks, which in reality simply doesn´t work. 

Yeah, it's always a tad depressing to see a new player get excited about giving them 5-6 attacks each, because you know how long they take to paint and that they are the most most temporary of all wound markers.

On another note, I find the Mortal Slaughterhosts frustrating. They are *almost* there. Almost. But the commands are unnecessarily restrictive. Run+charge: awesome!! On mediocre Battleline? Gah. Full rerolls: awesome!! On monopose monsters? Gah. Meanwhile other armies are alpha-striking in Turn 1 with their hardest-hitting units.

I suppose things could be much worse in terms of our sub-factions though, like SCE's ones...

[Roark]

4 hours ago, Perturbato said:

Hey i got my hand on Skarbrand and a Bloodthirster for cheap money lately and i was think at starting a project in going to a Tyrant of Blood/Balefull lord ... or Tyrant of Blood/Bloodlords .. 

Bloodlords looks like the best because of the Halo but Baleful lords looks like i can enter the melee sooner .. what do you, experience players, think of it ?

I'm thinking going with WoK BT for General, a BToUF and Skaarbrand then add Gorepilgrim, hexgorger skulls and try to have it go. Do you think only 2 BT + Skarbrand is enough ?

You mean something like this? I confess I don't have a lot of experience with massed Thirsters, and I think I would feel very weak without the Reapers command. The Black Crown seems awesome. 2 drops is nice. Very hard to make 24"+ though (going first) even with run+charge, unless I'm missing something. Going second, feels very fragile and exposed with ~100 wounds. Hopefully someone who knows what they're talking about will chime in. 😛

[Roark]

Thinking about it some more, I think I would make it a minimal Gore Pilgrims, and add more screens, like Centigors, Warhounds or more MSU Reavers.

[Perturbato]

yeah i was thinking about 2 x 5 Blood warriors and 2 x 10 Reavers  for more MSU and 5 Blood warriors is able to endure a little on objectives and can be used as screen with the reavers or custodes for the slaughterpriests/bloodsecrator. I'm using Blood Warriors over flesh hound because they are included in the taxe for gore pilgrim and can reduce the drop. That left me with 70 points and i can only add one more screen of Reavers. But yeah if i let the first turn to my adversarie he will kill me from afar ?

[Battlefury]

9 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

@Charleston @Battlefury

Biggest change I want to see is being able to bank unspent bloodtithe. No other summoning army's resource is used up in that way. No other army uses the same resource to choose between summoning and allegiance abilities. 

In addition, I would like to see a little more bloodtithe generated so it feels like we have allegiance abilities available all game, instead of at 2 or 3 key moments. Something like; enemy heroes and monsters generate 2 bloodtithe when slain, signifying the additional worthiness of their skulls to Khorne. 

I agree that Khorne should have some more inbuilt battleshock protection, if not outright ignore OBR style, and our heroes could do with some melee buffs/reliable damage.

Skullreapers and Bloodwarriors to have rend -1 (happy for Bloodreavers to lose that option), Bloodwarriors to wound on 3+, Bloodthirsters to have a 5+ FNP.

I would not support our Priests being limited to one prayer per turn like DOK, unless their points go down and/or our prayers became easier to cast.

You make those minor changes and you have gone a long way to fixing Khorne. As for the "dont pick them" units; those need a warscroll re-write to be saved. 

I am 100% with you

I am really thinking of designing an unofficial version of a BT for Khorne. I mean, people could argue and say "what for, you ain't gonna use it on any official events" and that's true. But for friendly games it could be ok for our sake of mental health though.

[Zamik]

I'd really like if there were some allegiance ability that would let you either remove the Hero keyword from certain five-wound heroes or allow you to take 2-3 of them in one Hero slot. I think it would be a neat way to represent the highly competitive nature of leadership in Khorne armies--every single warrior wants to be a warlord, so why shouldn't Khorne as a faction be able to bend the normal Hero rules? You could call the ability "Gorechosen" and select 2-3 5-wound heroes to occupy one Leader slot.

[Charleston]

54 minutes ago, Zamik said:

I'd really like if there were some allegiance ability that would let you either remove the Hero keyword from certain five-wound heroes or allow you to take 2-3 of them in one Hero slot. I think it would be a neat way to represent the highly competitive nature of leadership in Khorne armies--every single warrior wants to be a warlord, so why shouldn't Khorne as a faction be able to bend the normal Hero rules? You could call the ability "Gorechosen" and select 2-3 5-wound heroes to occupy one Leader slot.

Somewhat like Lieutenants in 40k sharing a single Slot?

[Zamik]

I've never played 40k (just some Kill Team), so I didn't know that! But if there's a Warhammer precedent for Heroes sharing a slot, it sounds good to me!

 

[Agent of Chaos]

@Zamik I really like that idea. Makes it possible to have 8 heroes in a 2K list and you know Khorne loves that!

[Tiberius501]

So, I sold my huge Khorne collection a while back, due to losing every single game with them (like... 6 years of losses every week) and getting sick of painting red. But, against my better judgment, I’m considering starting up another small force of these duders.

How do the blood and skull loving bros do these days? Can you play them without taking 3x Bloodthirsters? Or is that a must? I like Mortal style armies with chaos.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Tiberius501

[Hannibal]

Well, these days you can simply run Archaon with some support and have a nice time.