AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Xasz]

4 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Wrathmongers I am iffy on. They feel like a gimmick more than anything. Paying 180 points for 1 extra attack for them to hang back and just be supports feels like a total waste, but in combat they aren’t exactly ultra Killy or anything and then it just ends up hurting you when your opponent swings back with more attacks. Their on death effect has potential to be decent but overall I’m not in love with Wrathmongers. 

The moment your opponent has somewhat reliable shooting, they are super bad and just die before the reach anything of value.

4 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Speaking of gotta have it - Khorgoraths are like sleeper OP. Baseline they’re just strong and they only get better with buffs and support. They’re incredible in Skulltake which I have some previous experience with, but even as they are they are just really tanky and put out decent work. I really like these guys. I feel like from now on I always need one with me. 

That's nothing new, they were considered one of our best units before 2.0 due to being just an insane pile of stats. This might have shifted a little due to +10p for Khorgoraths and -10 for Skullreapers.

4 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut kicks ass for a solo dude. Very tanky, and actually pretty Killy and his command ability is gold. Overall love this guy. 2nd favorite model in GW’s line and the stats to back it up and be a total badass. 

The Gorecleaver Juggerlord has been a staple for quite some time now. He's just ridiculous reliable and one of the few mortal characters that can actually kill stuff in combat.

Blood Warriors are just offensive Chaos Warriors. In either case, a unit of 5 is just for holding objectives.

On another note, please use ScrollBuilder. These azyr screenshots are just aneurysm inducing.

[Ravinsild]

5 hours ago, Xasz said:

The moment your opponent has somewhat reliable shooting, they are super bad and just die before the reach anything of value.

That's nothing new, they were considered one of our best units before 2.0 due to being just an insane pile of stats. This might have shifted a little due to +10p for Khorgoraths and -10 for Skullreapers.

The Gorecleaver Juggerlord has been a staple for quite some time now. He's just ridiculous reliable and one of the few mortal characters that can actually kill stuff in combat.

Blood Warriors are just offensive Chaos Warriors. In either case, a unit of 5 is just for holding objectives.

On another note, please use ScrollBuilder. These azyr screenshots are just aneurysm inducing.

My computer is down for the count atm and scroll builders copy/paste function doesn’t work on my iPhone reasons. Sorry.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Ravinsild

[TheOtherJosh]

11 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Skullreapers are amazing, especially against 1 wound models and with lots of support. They’re especially good in the Skulltake Battalion and still solid on their own, however they’re quite soft and really require buffs and protection. They need help otherwise they just wilt. 

Of the two configurations for Skullreapers, you’re running which one? And what is your reasoning for the choice?

Daemon Weapons seem to provide a needed Mortal Wounds addition... but the self incliccted wounds (and then potentially additional wounds on death?) If you’re using them with Daemon Weapons ... how are you interpreting the dying from self inflicted mortal wounds additional damage?

[Ravinsild]

4 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

Of the two configurations for Skullreapers, you’re running which one? And what is your reasoning for the choice?

Daemon Weapons seem to provide a needed Mortal Wounds addition... but the self incliccted wounds (and then potentially additional wounds on death?) If you’re using them with Daemon Weapons ... how are you interpreting the dying from self inflicted mortal wounds additional damage?

I’m using them with Daemon Weapons and then just buffing them. Lord on Juggernaut +1 to wound, Bloodstoker rerolling wound rolls of 1, +1 to hit from killing frenzy, +1 attack from Aspiring Deathbringer. After you mulch a few units you’re re-rolling all hits and then re-rolling all wounds. 

It basically takes care of itself, so it’s just a gamble I’m willing to take. Not to mention on wound rolls of 6 or more in the Skulltake their weapons do an additional damage. 

So hits of 6 do mortal wounds and wounds of 6 do additional damage and you’re rerolling all fails for everything and the pain train just keeps growing.

absolutely fully buffed Skullreapers are terrifying and basically can seemingly kill anything. It’s why I fell in love with the Skulltake Battalion. 

Edited July 28, 2018 by Ravinsild

[MOMUS]

I think daemon weapons are by far the superior choice. Not sure I've actually seen anyone run anything different.

[kenshin620]

Plus if you're not running Daemon Weapons, you clearly don't remember the Khorne mantra of not caring where the blood flows from! ?

[Bjornas]

Modelling question: Has anyone tried putting Bloodreaver heads (in particular the helmeted ones) on Blood Warrior bodies? It seems they have different necks, do you think it could work with some greenstuff? Scale-wise okay too? 

[TheOtherJosh]

1 hour ago, MOMUS said:

I think daemon weapons are by far the superior choice. Not sure I've actually seen anyone run anything different.

There is a player at the local store that is hesitant on the “wounds to yourself” issue ... so they run goreslick Blades.

And then there is the question of how “Murderous to the Last” works if they kill themselves with mortal wounds damage from Daemon Forged Weapons due to a failed wound roll.

“Murderous to the Last: [...] Roll a dice immediately after any model from this unit is slain in the combat phase. If the result is 4 or 5, the attacking unit suffers a mortal wound; if it is 6, the attacking unit suffers D3 mortal wounds instead.”

[Xasz]

2 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

There is a player at the local store that is hesitant on the “wounds to yourself” issue ... so they run goreslick Blades.

That's just bad army setup.

There are too many ways to manipulate wound rolls, alongside the always present need for mortal wounds in BoK to even remotely consider not taking daemon weapons.

[TheAdequateWargamer]

3 hours ago, Bjornas said:

Modelling question: Has anyone tried putting Bloodreaver heads (in particular the helmeted ones) on Blood Warrior bodies? It seems they have different necks, do you think it could work with some greenstuff? Scale-wise okay too? 

Bloodwarrior heads have a ball bit at the bottom, bloodreaver ones dont. You could use some greenstuff for the neck, but the BR heads are nowhere near as big as BW heads. So may find that they look abnormally small a BW torso.

[Mikeymajq]

" I don’t know. I keep using them but I keep wondering why. "

This. This is me every battle. Damn Blood warriors 

Also, I just built 5 wrathmongers and reading about the other dudes makes me feeling like I done goofed ?

 

 

 

[MOMUS]

6 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:

There is a player at the local store that is hesitant on the “wounds to yourself” issue ... so they run goreslick Blades.

And then there is the question of how “Murderous to the Last” works if they kill themselves with mortal wounds damage from Daemon Forged Weapons due to a failed wound roll.

“Murderous to the Last: [...] Roll a dice immediately after any model from this unit is slain in the combat phase. If the result is 4 or 5, the attacking unit suffers a mortal wound; if it is 6, the attacking unit suffers D3 mortal wounds instead.”

I play it as if I do a mortal wound to myself and that kills a skullreaper model the damage on a 4+ goes on the unit I was attacking (the enemy).

I think you're looking into too much.

[Praecautus]

It has to be daemon weapons for skull reapers, it's like comparing an AK47 with a rocket launcher that fires sharks!

[Scrags]

I can't  wrap my head around the whole skull reapers thing. I get that skull reapers with lots of buffs can do damage. I just feel like bloodletters do it better and with less support. 

Same with Khorgoraths, and chaos knights and even chosen

[Ravinsild]

3 hours ago, Scrags said:

I can't  wrap my head around the whole skull reapers thing. I get that skull reapers with lots of buffs can do damage. I just feel like bloodletters do it better and with less support. 

Same with Khorgoraths, and chaos knights and even chosen

Chaos Chosen are good? Bloodletters are hideous I will never use them. Khorgorath is quickly becoming a pet model.

Today I played Dispossesed and I tested out a list with Brass Stampede + Skulltake Battalion. 

My favorite part of the Skullreapers in this Battalion is that they kill stuff - SO HARD (5 of them killed 17 out of 20 Dwarves with crossbows) that they typically, in my experience, quickly gain double the kills of their model count. 

What this means is that with a few support buffs to “get started” they quickly become re-roll self sufficient anyway. However the Bloodstoker re-roll would rolls of 1’s, Killing Frenzy +1 to hit, Lord of Khorne of Juggernaut +1 to wound means hitting on 3’s 5 and 6 do mortal wounds wounding on 2’s 5’s and 6’s add 1 damage to their weapons they just steamroll anything and eventually just reroll all failed hits and wounds. 

The Khorogorath is incredibly Killy as well. He’s quickly becoming a pet model that I’m just really excited to have and bring with me all the time in any list. Even more than 1. I’m just over the moon with this guy. Buff him even a little and I imagine if I put work into him he would just rip and tear forever. I love his healing, he has shooting, 2 damage in melee, rend, 5 attacks base and other stuff just buffs it, can easily get +2/+2/-1/3 with just a blessing and command point. Like this guy is just *muah*

I like the Brass Stampede alpha strike all close together and just blasting mortal wounds and Mighty Skullcrushers for 140 points feel like a steal. 4’s to hit 3’s to wound base with -1 rend is pretty good, buffs only make them better, plus the mounts and for 5 wound models these guys quickly spit dice, and at least against Dwarves lasted forever. Feeling much more positive about these guys. Going near into my “must always bring” category.

so Battalions I know I enjoy a lot and get a lot out of: Skulltake, Brass Stampede and Gore Pilgrims. Still have at least 2 more to test and a couple double Battalion lists. 

Slaughter Priests were risk it for the biscuit today and mostly basically killed themselves but at least most of the time I got 1 killing frenzy off I guess....? Super unreliable outside of Gore Pilgrims. The +1 is super worth it, but again, super risky without it. So it’s a toss up... 

That covers my latest discoveries and tests. 

I love how Chaos Chosen look but I had heard they weren’t great - however if anyone has positive experiences I am super open to running them! Adore their models! 

No matter what I’m getting Chaos Knights as I’m in love with their models so I’m just really glad to hear they’re totally worth it  

 

Edited July 29, 2018 by Ravinsild

[Scrags]

20 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Chaos Chosen are good? Bloodletters are hideous I will never use them. Khorgorath is quickly becoming a pet model.

Today I played Dispossesed and I tested out a list with Brass Stampede + Skulltake Battalion. 

My favorite part of the Skullreapers in this Battalion is that they kill stuff - SO HARD (5 of them killed 17 out of 20 Dwarves with crossbows) that they typically, in my experience, quickly gain double the kills of their model count. 

What this means is that with a few support buffs to “get started” they quickly become re-roll self sufficient anyway. However the Bloodstoker re-roll would rolls of 1’s, Killing Frenzy +1 to hit, Lord of Khorne of Juggernaut +1 to wound means hitting on 3’s 5 and 6 do mortal wounds wounding on 2’s 5’s and 6’s add 1 damage to their weapons they just steamroll anything and eventually just reroll all failed hits and wounds. 

The Khorogorath is incredibly Killy as well. He’s quickly becoming a pet model that I’m just really excited to have and bring with me all the time in any list. Even more than 1. I’m just over the moon with this guy. Buff him even a little and I imagine if I put work into him he would just rip and tear forever. I love his healing, he has shooting, 2 damage in melee, rend, 5 attacks base and other stuff just buffs it, can easily get +2/+2/-1/3 with just a blessing and command point. Like this guy is just *muah*

I like the Brass Stampede alpha strike all close together and just blasting mortal wounds and Mighty Skullcrushers for 140 points feel like a steal. 4’s to hit 3’s to wound base with -1 rend is pretty good, buffs only make them better, plus the mounts and for 5 wound models these guys quickly spit dice, and at least against Dwarves lasted forever. Feeling much more positive about these guys. Going near into my “must always bring” category.

so Battalions I know I enjoy a lot and get a lot out of: Skulltake, Brass Stampede and Gore Pilgrims. Still have at least 2 more to test and a couple double Battalion lists. 

Slaughter Priests were risk it for the biscuit today and mostly basically killed themselves but at least most of the time I got 1 killing frenzy off I guess....? Super unreliable outside of Gore Pilgrims. The +1 is super worth it, but again, super risky without it. So it’s a toss up... 

That covers my latest discoveries and tests. 

I love how Chaos Chosen look but I had heard they weren’t great - however if anyone has positive experiences I am super open to running them! Adore their models! 

No matter what I’m getting Chaos Knights as I’m in love with their models so I’m just really glad to hear they’re totally worth it  

 

Yeah chaos knights are a little tricky, they're DEVESTATING on the charge and will kill pretty much whatever they do charge. Good support from them is Chaos lord on Demonic mount (+1 to hit command ability) Killing Frenzy prayer and chaos war shrine Khorne refill all failed hits prayer. Only downside to Chaos knights is they're super swingy in terms of you NEED the charge. After the charge, or if they get charged its pathetic. 

Khorgoraths are just the exciting part of Chaos knights (-1 rend 2 damage attacks) but all the time and don't need support to be 3+/3+. 

Chosen arent "good" exactly but for me they're just safer skull reapers. They can also do mortal wounds and don't hurt themselves. 

Skullreapers just confuse the hell out of me. They don't do consistent enough mortal wounds to be an "elite killer"/"tank buster" unit, and also aren't really kitted to fight hordes. I've run them several times now and they never seem to really earn their points in my games. Again, I get that with support they do damage but so many other options seem cheaper and more reliable. 

I just don't get what their role in the army is supposed to be. Seems like all our other units do their job better, cheaper or both. 

Im trying to learn how to use them and am willing to give them a shot because I know most people swear by them. I just don't see it myself. The sergeant seems to be the only model remotely with while. Maybe back when they were 140 points

[Galdenistal]

13 hours ago, Mikeymajq said:

" I don’t know. I keep using them but I keep wondering why. "

This. This is me every battle. Damn Blood warriors 

Also, I just built 5 wrathmongers and reading about the other dudes makes me feeling like I done goofed ?

 

 

 

No way, wrathmongers are great, if your opponent has a monster then you match ur guys up against it, otherwise position them correctly to buff one of ur other units.

[Xasz]

3 hours ago, Galdenistal said:

No way, wrathmongers are great, if your opponent has a monster then you match ur guys up against it, otherwise position them correctly to buff one of ur other units.

... and if he has subpar shooting.

They can be really good if you know what you are up against (local meta, team tournament, fixed setup game). In any other case, there are less constrained choices for roughly the same job.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Xasz

[MOMUS]

If my opponent has good shooting or other long range spells/threats etc I use my Wrathmongers as a fear factor/suidcide charge. Whip them and run as far forward (easy with the new command) put in terrain and its 15 wounds, Armour 4+.

Your enemy must deal with them (even one is worth its weight in gold) this means other units can get forward into better positions knowing the brunt of the shooting will be on the crazy dudes.

[TheOtherJosh]

18 hours ago, MOMUS said:

I play it as if I do a mortal wound to myself and that kills a skullreaper model the damage on a 4+ goes on the unit I was attacking (the enemy).

I think you're looking into too much.

Perhaps, but the wording is “the attacking unit suffers [...]” not “the enemy unit suffers” ...

In the case of Skullreapers, if they kill themselves in their combat phase (not the enemies combat phase), then they are “the attacking unit” ... whether that is intended or not.

[Ravinsild]

40 minutes ago, MOMUS said:

If my opponent has good shooting or other long range spells/threats etc I use my Wrathmongers as a fear factor/suidcide charge. Whip them and run as far forward (easy with the new command) put in terrain and its 15 wounds, Armour 4+.

Your enemy must deal with them (even one is worth its weight in gold) this means other units can get forward into better positions knowing the brunt of the shooting will be on the crazy dudes.

I’ll keep trying them out, and it may have been a bad game with them, but every time they fought it didn’t seem to do that impressive.

Although it was against boar riders who fight twice called Maniaks or something from Bonesplittas. It may have been a bad match up. 

Meanwhile Skullreapers just seem to scythe through things like wheat and collect all the skulls and are cheaper. Since it was my first game with Wrathmongers I was probably doing it wrong though. 

 

[TheAdequateWargamer]

6 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

I’ll keep trying them out, and it may have been a bad game with them, but every time they fought it didn’t seem to do that impressive.

Although it was against boar riders who fight twice called Maniaks or something from Bonesplittas. It may have been a bad match up. 

Meanwhile Skullreapers just seem to scythe through things like wheat and collect all the skulls and are cheaper. Since it was my first game with Wrathmongers I was probably doing it wrong though. 

 

Wrathmongers serve a completely different battlefield role.

They are a waste against basic infantry.

Very good deterent against big smashy characters (maw crusha, guo, nagash). Youre probably not goint to find another unit for 180 points that unbuffed can take one of those off in a turn.

[TheAdequateWargamer]

Also the demise of the murderhost may be greatly exaggerated.

If the internets are correct @Dan.Ford finished second at Bobo with it.

Skullmaster, bloodsecrator, skarr

3 x 30 bloodletters

5 x 5 fleshhounds

[mastercrafted]

As i begin dipping my toe into aos2, whats a good number of heroes to take at 1000 pts blades of khorne and which are must take? I think bloodsecrator is a must have, and i like the mighty lord of khornes command trait. Bloodstoker and slaughterpriest are also both useful, but i think 4 heroes might be too many at 1000 pts? 

[Agent of Chaos]

No you pretty much need all 4 heroes in 1000 points. Our units need the buffs they provide and they are essential for summoning. 

I'm really not a fan of the mighty lord. His command ability effects 3 other units but how many times in a 1000 point game would you have 3 units all looking to charge in the same turn?  Also you want him in combat but with only 5" move he doesn't get around. For a more offensive and mobile General look at a Lord of Khorne on Daemonic Mount (especially if you're running any knights), Lord on Juggernaut or Khorne Daemon Prince. 

Bloodsecrator is essential in most khorne armies and depending on how you play, a Bloodstoker is fairly essential as well. For the sake of one slaughterpriest I probably wouldn't bother. They are extremely useful however 4+ to bless/pray is dicey and outside of gorepilgrims or a second priest for law of averages he is a bit hit or miss in 1000 points. For the same points an Aspiring Deathbringer's ability is more reliable. Assign him to  a unit of Blood Warriors or Skull Reapers and watch him go.