AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Vasshpit]

With the current warscroll stats, brutes should be allowed to mix and max between all weapon options. 

Other armies have this. Look at SCE Evocators. 

Wouldn't make them op but could give them a slight buff.

[Shmaravoz]

Check out the new Battreport OBR vs IronJawz. Subscribe, hit like, leave a comment and most importantly enjoy! 

 

[TALegion]

48 minutes ago, Shmaravoz said:

Check out the new Battreport OBR vs IronJawz. Subscribe, hit like, leave a comment and most importantly enjoy! 

 

Awesome intro. God, I hate this matchup so much for IJ. I genuinely just don't know what we can do vs. Petrifex

[Shmaravoz]

4 minutes ago, TALegion said:

Awesome intro. God, I hate this matchup so much for IJ. I genuinely just don't know what we can do vs. Petrifex

Yeah its tough. IJ may not have enough power to chew though mortek guards, with their rerollable saves, 6+ FNP and 4+ from Harvester... Beastclaw raiders have a higher damage output potential and we want to see if they can finish the job. If u liked intro, make sure u check other batreps on our channel. Thanks for the feedback and make sure u subscribe if you've enjoy the content. Cheers

[Martijn de Bruin]

So how do you all feel about the rumoured/leaked changes to points for IJ?

Boys +10

Brutes -10

Megaboss -10

Shaman +10

A minor nerf, whilst the pts drop not being significant enough to make the megaboss and brutes interesting? 🤔

Edited July 4, 2020 by Martijn de Bruin

[Jackroks981]

8 minutes ago, Martijn de Bruin said:

So how do you all feel about the rumoured/leaked changes to points for IJ?

Boys +10

Brutes -10

Megaboss -10

Shaman +10

A minor nerf, whilst the pts drop not being significant enough to make the megaboss and brutes interesting? 🤔

First off I’d take these a pinch of salt. If these are the changes I’ll be pretty disappointed, doesn’t really change anything apart from the few lists with 4 million ardboys. Think the Maw-Krusha could drop a few points honestly when you compare it frostlords and the like, brutes could drop a little more just to make them more attractive. 

[broche]

It's quite a big change between Ardboys and brutes. 10 brutes now come 40 pts cheaper than 15 ardboys.  I would have like a small drop on Gordrak. I don't really understand the increase on weirnob.

[Tezia99]

Couple quick lists I came up with point adjustments in mind. Brute/ardfist list comes in at 2k on the nose. Ard/iron at 1990. The MB/shaman changes are a wash since one goes up and one down 10. 
 

ard/iron in a BW list could be good, 2 free MDs, 3 CP to start the game 4 on your turn(helps against lumineth double cp shenanigans) high body count for waaagh points if you need them +1s across the army 6++ on all versus just the shield guys in Ironjawz. 
 

I like the idea of brute/ard in choppaz list. Most games I’ve played as them the enemy territory is pretty large and most terrain gives me reroll charges. Brutes become a little more competitive now and who doesn’t love their models amirite?

I’ve got a list with 60 ardboyz too for the lulz but am interested in the double batallion stuff. Getting the explosions from brutes and also the regen from ardboyz gives more options. Ironsunz with the brutes charging in enemy phase to soften a charge and then force opponent to face 2 threats is an option as well. 
 
I haven’t played around with the Krusha lists yet and those are the ones I’m a little more worried about where the loss of some models will be more detrimental 

[Ganigumo]

13 hours ago, Martijn de Bruin said:

So how do you all feel about the rumoured/leaked changes to points for IJ?

Boys +10

Brutes -10

Megaboss -10

Shaman +10

A minor nerf, whilst the pts drop not being significant enough to make the megaboss and brutes interesting? 🤔

The wierdnob change makes 0 sense to me, which makes me very skeptical of the rumor overall.

I've shifted to bloodtoofs because of how crazy the magic phase power creep is getting, and running a footboss to hold the artefact for the free teleport instead of bringing a wierdnob.

Brutes are certainly more interesting with those changes though, i figured that a 20 point decrease on brutes would make them better than 'ardboyz in most cases, and a 10 point decrease wouldn't be enough. This feels like it lands somewhere in the middle, with brutes being more effecient in terms of wounds and damage but with ardboyz having more bravery and better charges.

[Bululu]

well the removal of ethereal mawcrushar is a big nerf indeed, but its something every army has to deal with. The problem i see with this is that it benefits even more to the new shooting meta making it even easier for them...

[Ganigumo]

5 hours ago, Bululu said:

well the removal of ethereal mawcrushar is a big nerf indeed, but its something every army has to deal with. The problem i see with this is that it benefits even more to the new shooting meta making it even easier for them...

I think Ironjawz aren't hit too hard by this as many builds have a slightly weaker variant. Ironsunz get an artifact to reduce rend by 1 and no clan, Big Waagh! and Choppas have access to a command trait for +1 save, which can be combined with another artifact (but we'll see what those look like)

[Bululu]

the ghb 2020 artifacts are plain useless, ironsunz is good but you lose the command trait of free mighty destroyers. And before, at least the tzeentch / seraphon user had to use basically a complete turn to destroy your ethereal mawcrusha, leaving the rest of the army breath to attack and catch up. Now they will kill the mawcrusha with just a unit or 2 of shooting, so they can take care also of your big goregrunta unit all on first turn, leaving you basically with nothing that can deal with a unit of pinks or whatever. Lets see how they deal with tzeentch and seraphon, but i dont think they will nerf them hard enough (seraphon will probably even go unchanged).

[Lanoss]

Points changes? Are they what was shown last week?

[Scurvydog]

Tried to make a Grunta Megabos, it is quite tough in the forge and it does not seem much overpowered will come out of it at least, which might be good as more people will probably allow it compared to being a cheese factory.

This guy clocks in it 28 DP/280 pts. That is the same as 2 megabosses on foot and moving close to MK cost territory for it's own good, a tag of 220 or 240 would probably be more in line in the real world, but what can you do.

His base output is slightly below a chaos lord on karkadrak by around 0,5 average damage, but lacks the healing and MW save that model got.

The mount is expensive but just would not look right without these stats, even though the puny hoof attacks cost 20 pts just to get to 4+/4+ instead og 5+/5+ which is silly, but it would look wrong without it...

[Backbreaker]

With this change, I'm thinking about "Da boss fist". A reduction of 50 points at minimum.

I wonder if I should forget about warchanter to keep a one drop army. One warchanter is almost a brute unit. And with the battalion buff, they are even more a threat.

[PlasticCraic]

14 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

Tried to make a Grunta Megabos, it is quite tough in the forge and it does not seem much overpowered will come out of it at least, which might be good as more people will probably allow it compared to being a cheese factory.

 

You can make some utterly bent stuff in there, it's just hard to make the thing we all wanted because the Ironjawz base profile is garbage.  They put him on a 5+ save so you have to spend a million points to get back to where you should have started.  

I don't think it'll be allowed at matched play events tbh, you can do some really crazy stuff.

[Scurvydog]

10 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

You can make some utterly bent stuff in there, it's just hard to make the thing we all wanted because the Ironjawz base profile is garbage.  They put him on a 5+ save so you have to spend a million points to get back to where you should have started.  

I don't think it'll be allowed at matched play events tbh, you can do some really crazy stuff.

Yea it wont be allowed in any serious play. The system is horrible in favor of very focused characters and mounts are very overpriced, not just in base cost, but because of the cost to upgrade the insanely poor profiles as well. A mount has 1 bite with d3 damage and 2 claw attacks with 5+/5+ base, it would be like 40 points to just turn that profile into a basic gore grunta 4 attacks 4+/4+ tusks and hooves which is ridiculous. On the other hand buffing 1 single weapon is far more efficient, like making an archer with 5 shots with 3+/2+/rend 2 and 5 damage. 

[PlasticCraic]

Yeah I think you've really tried to work in the spirit of how it's "meant" to work and make a unit that feels right, and you've done a good job of it.  Because you've approached it in that spirit, your opponents might even give you a break on the points cost - I'd be happy to let you use it in a friendly game at well below 280 points.  

It's pretty easy to break the whole thing if you min max though.  

It's still fun.  I guess it's back to the original days of "talk to your opponent" AOS if we want to use it, and just all be on the same page. 

Locally I think we might do a campaign where these Heroes are allowed, no holds barred, break it into a million tiny pieces.  I will double it up as a hobby project but again I think as long as you are all approaching it the same way, it can be fun and memorable.

 

[broche]

On 7/8/2020 at 3:32 AM, Bululu said:

the ghb 2020 artifacts are plain useless, ironsunz is good but you lose the command trait of free mighty destroyers.

Do you have the artifact list yet?

From what i understand, no more Etheral amulet. This will increase greatly the value of Ironclad and Ironsunz artefact (ironclad + daubing of mork is gonna become a nice set up) . 

Edit: After going thru the book, i've analysis the different option for Maw Krusha.

Without Etheral Amulet / Ignax Scale, it's hard to have a well defended Krusha like before. The best defensive set up would be Ironclad + Daubing of Mork, or Ironsunz (armor + -1 to hit in R1). Not too shaby but rend 2 is gonna be a problem for sure (Mortek Guard, Fyreslayer, Cities). That could tips the scale toward the uber offensive krusha (Live to fight / Destroyer / Metal rippa claw / Mean'un) or even Gordrak (already an offensive built with much better command ability)

Edited July 14, 2020 by broche

[Ganigumo]

FAQs are out.
Wierdnob shaman is now 120 (why?)
Foot Megaboss is now 140

'Ardboys are 100

Brutes are 130

 

Other than the shaman change this seems fine? It probably pushes brutes to be more efficient than 'Ardboys but 'Ardboys have more utility. I'll probably be dropping down to 10 'Ardboys from 15 and running a few more brutes in my list.

[Warmill]

Our gaming started filming some batreps and this weekend was my go on camera, brought my Ironjawz since I'd been playing mostly Big Waaagh! before lockdown and I really fancied getting back to my roots. Also brought Gordrakk just because I've never used him and it seemed appropriate to bring out the big toy for my first game since March. We've only just started so the overlays are a bit bare bones but we're focussing on commentators so the players can have a proper game. Watches and feedback is always appreciated, see how I fare against Ogor Mawtribes after not playing for 4 months 🤣

 

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Warmill

[Andrew G]

4 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

FAQs are out.
Wierdnob shaman is now 120 (why?)
Foot Megaboss is now 140

'Ardboys are 100

Brutes are 130

 

Other than the shaman change this seems fine? It probably pushes brutes to be more efficient than 'Ardboys but 'Ardboys have more utility. I'll probably be dropping down to 10 'Ardboys from 15 and running a few more brutes in my list.

Yea, agreed. The shaman change seems silly. The 'ardboyz and Brute change is much better for internal balance because of the trade-off you outlined (damage/tankiness efficiency vs.  +3 charge, more bodies per point for objective grabbing,screening, and Big Waaagh's CA).

As far as external balance... my list got hit fairly hard as I was running 'ardboy focused Big Waaagh!  Personally, I thought that type of list was going to sort itself out as it relied on foot heroes grouped up, and the new armies introduced in the last 6 months really easily punish that type of strategy.  Maybe the 10 point increase was a little bit of an overkill, as they only really got ridiculous in very specific Big Waagh/ardfist lists and even then it was RNG reliant. That coupled with the fact they lost some tankiness in Big Waaagh! not being able to stack the shield save with the DPR roll.

No more realm artifacts also is a fairly big hit, and I think it makes Ironsunz a completely no brainer choice if you're running a MK now. I would have liked to see him go down 20-40 points at least. Losing aetherquartz is also a fairly big deal, there's alternatives through both shaman's artifacts to generate CP and clans, but aetherquartz made it into 70% of my lists since it was introduced. 

[Ganigumo]

7 minutes ago, Andrew G said:

Yea, agreed. The shaman change seems silly. The 'ardboyz and Brute change is much better for internal balance because of the trade-off you outlined (damage/tankiness efficiency vs.  +3 charge, more bodies per point for objective grabbing,screening, and Big Waaagh's CA).

As far as external balance... my list got hit fairly hard as I was running 'ardboy focused Big Waaagh!  Personally, I thought that type of list was going to sort itself out as it relied on foot heroes grouped up, and the new armies introduced in the last 6 months really easily punish that type of strategy.  Maybe the 10 point increase was a little bit of an overkill, as they only really got ridiculous in very specific Big Waagh/ardfist lists and even then it was RNG reliant. That coupled with the fact they lost some tankiness in Big Waaagh! not being able to stack the shield save with the DPR roll.

No more realm artifacts also is a fairly big hit, and I think it makes Ironsunz a completely no brainer choice if you're running a MK now. I would have liked to see him go down 20-40 points at least. Losing aetherquartz is also a fairly big deal, there's alternatives through both shaman's artifacts to generate CP and clans, but aetherquartz made it into 70% of my lists since it was introduced. 

Clanless/Choppas is a decent option for Maw Krushas too. the +1 save Command trait is good, and could be combined with the Chamon artifact, the 6+ ward artifact or just something designed to be more offensive.

Loss of Aetherquartz is a hit though, and there aren't any great alternatives. allying in fungoids and wurrgoggs could work but that will cost us more points.

I suspect we'll see more Savage Orruk hordes in Big Waaagh! now, which means we may it move to being primarily bonesplitterz, with a maw krusha/gordrakk at the helm, but time will tell.

[5kaven5lave]

10 points on Ardboys seems fair but putting 10 points on the Weirdnob Shaman who will now just die turn 1 to Teclis / Kroak is bizarre. Looks like my Ardfist is going from 4x10 Boys to 3x10, a 5 and hopefully a cheeky Triumph. 

[Arkahn]

Until now I played 15 15 5 Ardboyz in a Ardfist, but  now I will try a Ironfist to keep mighty destroyer and make a tanky MK Ironclad + Chamon's artefact... 2+ ignoring -1.

30 savage orruks were too good in any big waaagh list and it continue. 

By habit, I add some Ardboyz into my Ironfist but finally I will give a go to 10 5 brutes instead of 15 5 Ardboyz, it cost 1 Waagh point T1 and the +3 to charge but 10 brutes 2" behind my savage orruks could be good, I guess