Warmill

You can't break coherency through any movement, every time you move a unit it has to end in coherency. Core rule 1.3.3.

Went to a team tourney on Sunday and managed to go 3-0 wiv da ladz! My list was a bit daft, I ran: Krusha w/ arcane tome, master of magic, bash em ladz Gordrakk Rogue idol 2 chanters 3x5 ardboyz Ironsunz clan Game 1 was against ymetrica lrl, with teclis, cathallar, 2x5 stoneguard, 1x10 stoneguard and 30 sentinels on the hold objectives for 2 turns battleplan. He took turn 1 and put 14 wounds into my krusha, I shuffled up and didn't charge. He won prio t2 and killed my krusha, in my t2 I MD-charged some ardboyz and gordrakk into his screen and tagged the sentinels, then hopped gordrakk over the screen to pile into teclis while the rogue idol charged 5 stoneguard. Gordrakk slapped teclis down to 2 wounds, the rogue idol killed 4 guard. I won prio t3, MD piled in the idol into range of the sentinels then killed teclis and a load of sentinels with gordy and the idol combined. We played out his t3 then called it. Game 2 was against a new player with sylvaneth, on tectonic interference, not much to say as he castled in one corner and didn't advance for 2 turns while I sat on the objectives. He won prio t3, Alarielle killed the krusha then gordrakk slapped alarielle in my t3 after a double pile in, we called it. Game 3 was against some crazy cabalists std list, I took t1, buffed gordrakk and the krusha and yolo charged with them and the idol, popped the waagh and wiped 5 chaos knights, 30 marauders and some iron golems and chaos warriors. After this the std list had no output, he won prio t2 but failed any charges or kills and after I went he was down to some warcry guys and I won prio t3 having lost a single warchanter. I definitely got lucky dodging some nasty thunder lizard lists, and my opponents weren't super experienced but since I was running such a daft list I'll take my wins where I can get them! The lrl list was the toughest, total eclipse really made me have to choose what to spend my cps on but I played my tightest game against a real tough list so was the high point of my day. Losing t3 prio would've made it a real uphill struggle but I think I had a good chance once I tied up the sentinels with the hero phase charge.

I agree with you, it's going to get ruled 100% one way or the other, no individual CA interpretation. If there was going to be a granular interpretation it would've been covered in the megaboss rule to start with.

You do understand that my hypothetical apple-giving situation is using literally the same rules as issuing and receiving CAs, right? I'm applying the megaboss rule in its entirety because there IS nothing in the rule about restrictions, just pick 3 units to receive it. You're reading it as "may pick 3 units to receive the command ability instead of 1 as long as all 3 units meet all the requirements at the same exact moment", and that's not what the rule says is it?

Should have been 'all the examples you list as absurd are perfectly valid' but I edited it halfway through. My point stands though, does my analogy help you understand why they're valid? As long as the hungry kid gets an apple the other 2 kids don't have to be hungry, according to the rules as written. Your take is that the rule was 'only' the hungry kid can get an apple, but that's not what the rules were.

Thing is, all the examples you list as absurd and are perfectly valid, rally specifically says 'the unit that receives the command must be more than 3" away from enemy units", which has a different meaning to "that unit", so no you couldn't triple issue it to a unit that was in combat. As long as 1 unit fulfils the requirement to issue the command, the other units can receive the command. You're confusing the requirements to issue a command with eligibility to receive a command, which is why it seems absurd to you. As an analogy, if i'm in a room full of kids and my boss says when a kid is hungry you can give out an apple, the kid that is hungry must receive an apple, if I only have one apple the answer is obvious. If a bigger boss says when you give out an apple you can give out 3 apples instead of one, do the other 2 kids have to be hungry? No, as long as the hungry kid gets an apple.

The reason this is coming up is because people on your side of the argument are reading that for a unit to receive a command ability it has to fall in to steps 1 and 2, I'm pointing out that only step 1 is required to issue a command ability. "You can issue this ability when a unit is attacked": that's it, fulfil that requirement and you can issue the command. The megaboss fits into the sequence here, at which point you can choose 3 units to receive it. Step 2 then comes in to effect, which is that the unit that was targeted must receive it. The rules don't say only that unit can receive it, or a unit must be attacked to receive it, just that the unit that IS targeted must receive it. That's the difference, and that's why triple spamming attack and defence is valid. "That unit must receive the command" does not exclude "other units may receive the command", the megaboss specifically allows other units to receive the command.

Step 3 is describing the effect you apply to the unit that has been issued the command ability, eg add +1 to save or +1 to hit at the point when you roll dice, not when the command is issued, as per the core rules.

You've missed a very important part of the command ability wording though. Step 1) you can issue this command ability when a unit is the target of an attack. Ok, unit A is the target, that means we can issue the command ability, which means we must pick a unit to do the issuing. I pick my maw krusha, whose rule specifically states when it's chosen to issue a command it can pick 3 friendly units to receive it instead of 1. Step 2) that unit must receive the command ability. Ok no problem, I pick that unit A as one target, and units b and c as the others. I've now fulfilled the second part of the command ability, which is that that unit must receive the command. Step 3) that unit adds +1 to save rolls until the end of the phase. Cool, 3 units now get to add +1 to their saves until the end of the phase, because the maw krusha issued the command to 3 units instead of 1. Is there any restrictive language in the megaboss ability as to what units can receive a command ability? No. Is there any restrictive language in the command abilities that a unit can only use AoD or AoA if it is the target of an attack or is attacking at that moment? No, that's why they say 'until the end of the phase'. The language is simple and the intent is obvious, just spam those command abilities until an faq says you specifically can't.

All out attack and all out defence both include the words "until the end of that phase", the rules already include an allowance that they may take effect outside of the immediate issuing of that command ability. This coupled with the fact the megaboss ability is very simple, "when you issue a command ability with this model you may pick 3 units to receive it instead of 1" with no restrictive language at all makes it pretty clear to me you can triple issue aoa and aod with the only restriction being that a unit must be attacked or attack to issue it, and that unit must be 1 of the 3 that receives it. I'll be so glad when it gets faq-ed, because this is one of those situations where a large part of the community seems to have decided a rule must be way more complicated than it is.

This is the correct answer. Benefit and receive have distinct definitions, they don't mean quite the same thing: receive means be given while benefit means to gain an advantage from; the advantage of the command ability is +1 attack. The real answer is that it's a typo like the wight king's CA, it should say use in hero phase last til next hero phase, or use in combat phase last til end of combat phase.

This is kind of my problem, I don't want ij to win by playing for battle tactics and scoring vps here and there with spare and beaten up units, I want them to win by destroying my opponent in combat by turn 2 😆

Glad to see it's not just me then, your matchup was very similar to mine with pretty much the same results. We just don't hit like we used to except in that one waaagh turn. Losing access to a metalrippa krusha for reliable output is just huge.

I've included the rest of the text here for completeness: So use in that case is just the wording of the command ability, because sbgl was written with one foot in aos 2.0 where all command abilities just say 'use', and aos 3.0 where issue and receive have distinct meanings. The effect on manny is that to 'use' the ability has the effect of both issuing and receiving on him in that first phase, receiving on other units in that phase (core rules faq again), but not receiving on himself or other units in future phases. In the case of our venga boy, the most concrete definition of what 'use' means is in rule 6.1: So using a command ability specifically requires a cp, an issuing unit and a receiving unit (both bolded). It's establishing that you can't separate the act of of using a command ability from needing an issuer and receiver. If the rule says venga boy can't use a command ability, I think it's fair to take from that that he can't be the issuer or the receiver; since both are required to complete the action of using a command ability, if he's used to fulfil one of the requirements he's being used to use a command ability. Ultimately it's a case of applying 3.0 rules to 2.0 language, and the 3.0 version would be 'this model cannot issue or receive a command ability', but we have to work with what we've got in the meantime and I think it's about as close to a logical interpretation based on the rules as written as you're going to get.

The way I would interpret it is that he can't issue or receive targeted command abities, but can still be affected by aura command abilities. This is based on the core rules faq, I've highlighted the relevant bit. Yeah it would be clearer if it said cannot issue or receive, but I think arguing receiving a CA doesn't count as using one would be a tough ask m'lud. I always run Lauka and a venga boy so it does pain me when I can't pop an all out defence to make them super tanky.

Just had 2 real feels-bad games against a stormcast list, both ganes were over turn 2. My list: 2 krushas, 1 general with amulet and impact hits CT, 1 with armour of gork and fast un. 2 chanters 2x5 brutes 1x15 ardboyz 1x3 gruntas Madcap shaman Ironsunz His list: Gardus steelsoul Lord relictor 6 longstrikes 4 fulminator dracoths (spears) 3x5 libs 2 chariots 1x3 aetherwings Battleplan was feral foray. Game 1 he made me go first, I MD the ardboyz and brutes then move everything up with the krushas positioned for a counter charge. He hero phase shoots the ardboyz and only does 5 damage, then shoots the AoG krusha, i roll 10 4+ saves, fail 8 then only roll 1 6++ to take 15 damage. Fulmis charge in and split attacks, I roll 7 4+ saves against the spears on the krusha and fail all of them 🙄 while 8 more ardboyz go down. At this point he wins prio turn 2 and we call it to rerack. Game 2 I test going ham with the krushas, general hits the fulmis while the AoG hits some aetherwings and libs. After both swing I've killed a total of 1 fulmi and 1 liberator, and take the last wound of the aetherwings that had survived 8 krusha shots and a 5mw stomp. His turn 1 he kills my general and beats the other krusha down to 9 wounds left while my krusha manages to do 3 wounds to a chariot. I win prio t2 and take it, charge in the ardboyz and 5 brutes. By the end of my turn 2 the other krusha is dead, 5 brutes failed to charge a chariot, the ardboyz did 3 damage to a fulmi and nothing to a unit of libs, while the 5 brutes did 3 damage to the same libs. We called it before he took his turn 2. Overall it felt terrible, he was rolling real hot on the armour saves and 5++ aura from gardus steel soul while I couldn't roll to save me life, but it really felt like a no win situation. 30" range on the longstrikes, a teleport, the speedy chariots and the fulmis meant I couldn't stay back and wait for him to unpack his castle, while all of his stuff was on a 3+ save and the 5++ aura stopped the few attacks that managed to get through. The krushas were absolutely terrible, losing the impact hits for the stomp is a major nerf however you cut it, especially now you can't do them in the hero phase or double stack it, and rend 1 just doesn't cut it against that kind of armour. I had hopes for the 15 ardboy rally blob but the amount of rend 2 damage 2 he had meant they were barely a speedbump. I enjoyed the first couple of games with the new book, but this just really knocked the shine off them.

It's just wishful thinking, piling in is very clearly defined within 12.2. 12.0 to 12.1.2 is defining the sequence within the fight phase that goes pile in > attack and it's not the fight phase so doesn't apply. Mighty destroyers only allowed a pile in in the 1.0 ironjawz book and grand allegiance destruction, there's plenty of precedent for it being pile in only.

I wrote the list when the book dropped before 3.0 because I love Lauka Vai and the venga boys, but it's turned out to actually be pretty good. Just cycle buffs, finest hours, mystic shields and all out defences to keep all the heroes on a 2+ save and run around living their best lives. Currently 5-1 with it, I lost in the final game of a local 1-dayer to a morathi bow snake list but heavily outscored them turns 1 and 2, if I'd played a bit better and had a bit more luck turn 3 I reckon I could've taken it but sadly the bow sneks took their toll and I had some bad whiffs at crucial moments.

Really good performance, I've only been running Avengorii (Lauka Bae for lyfe!) so not overly familiar with blood knights, but my instinct was they would struggle against big tough heavy hitters, so happy to be proven wrong!

I've always been a big fan of double krusha and krusha/gordrakk and to be honest I alway treated gordrakk as a little sub-game of how much can I level him up. I think ironsunz is probably the best clan for him so you can get him fighting as many turns as possible to really boost the axes. Gordrakk + shaman general with touched by the waagh could be a fun combo as well, so you can try and cast foot of gork without missing out on the waaagh turn if the shaman gets sniped early.

I had a lengthy discussion about this on the fb group and imo spamming all out attack and defence is perfectly valid. My boring technical reasoning is this: Green shows what the trigger requirements are to issue the AOD CA: use it when a unit is targeted. The purple is the second requirement: the unit that is targeted must receive the CA. The red is the benefit the unit gets. So a unit is targeted, that triggers being able to use the CA from the megaboss, requirement 1 met. You can issue it to 3 units, one of whom will be the unit that was targeted: that fulfills the second requirement, THAT unit receives the CA, so you're then free to use it on 2 other units while still meeting the requirement. The CA doesn't say that the unit must BE targeted to receive AOD, only that the unit that IS targeted must, which it does as one of 3 units. That's my rules lawyer argument, the real argument is of course it's intended for you to be able to spam CAs cos it's the battletome and it takes priority.

I realise he's at least 60 points overcosted but I'm really looking forward to running gordrakk in my lists, sucks he didn't get rend 2 axes but I think there's some worth to having a backup general for calling the waaagh in case your main krusha or other general gets sniped before the key turn. Pretty much makes amulet of destiny even more essential for your general now though. Losing metalrippa was a big blow as well but the extra fist damage at least makes up for it.

I think it's a real stretch to claim that getting 2 uses out of an ability in one phase is only benefitting from it once. Receive and benefit don't mean the same thing, if it said a unit may only receive the ability once per phase I'd say stack away, but it doesn't. Break it down: A) What is the benefit of the command ability? It gives you +1 attack. B) If you give a unit +2 attacks from 2 uses of the command ability, it's benefitting from it twice. C) A unit can only benefit from this ability once per phase. How do you allow A and B without breaking the rule in C? You can't, as the command may have been issued in 2 separate phases but you're still trying to benefit from it twice on the same unit in the same phase. Edit: the real answer is it's supposed to say either use in hero phase, last til next hero phase, or use in combat phase, last til end of that phase and it slipped through the proofreading net like the wighr king CA.

You could rally on both, but you only get the 4+ rally if it's the unit champion that issues it so a choice between rallying 2 on 6s or rallying 1 on 4+ 🤷‍♂️

What a pile in is very clearly defined, it's 12.2. I'll cross my fingers for 'and attack' to be added to mighty destroyers but right now we ain't fighting in the hero phase anymore.