AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[umpac]

8 hours ago, broche said:

I don't think you realize the output increase of +1 damage on single damage units (small clue: it's x2)

I'm pretty sure we will still have hand of gork. 

At the level of damge we are looking at, shooting magic and even summoning might become irrelevant:

For exemple, in a great waaagh 20 ardboys + warchanter buff will be dishing out 55 damage (r1). If you use the Waaagh!, it's 83. I'm not a khorne expert, but i don't think they come close to this amount from the some experience i've against them. The only unit that are in the same range of damage is 30 buffed fury, or Morsarr guard with +4 attack. 

3 x 20 arbdboys and 3 warchanter cost less than 1200 pts. It already give you 63 model and 140 wound on the board, and 800 more point to spend. Want shooting, take some arrowboys!

And assuming Gruntas keep a similar warscroll (lots of attack at 1 damage)  this will work on them as well. Brutes and Maw Krusha would actually be your worse target.

Ardboyz have 1" range, you are not getting 20 into combat, so they will be dishing out FAR less damage than buffed witch elves for instance. They also don't compete in the activation war, so all that damage is meaningless if you never get to attack. Slaanesh summoning will not become even remotely irrelevant when they summon all their keepers back thanks to all the DP from 2 wound boyz, who will proceed to murderfuck everything before they can strike back.

They have potential but I've yet to see anything that makes me think they're gonna be top tier.

[Requizen]

28 minutes ago, broche said:

At the level of damge we are looking at, shooting magic and even summoning might become irrelevant:

On the contrary, with enough shooting/magic/summoning, melee damage is irrelevant. 

-If the Warchanter gets shot/magicked off the board, no buffs.
-If the Boyz get thinned out by shooting/spells, or debuffed to hitting on 5+ or worse, doesn't matter that they're damage 2.
-If you kill 40 skellies and then they just get summoned back before you charge something else, that damage doesn't matter.
-If Stormcast force you to fight 3 Aetherwings before you reach the important units, damage doesn't matter.

Footslogging melee damage armies are among the least reliable things in the game, as there are multiple tools designed to prevent things like Ardboyz from reaching important targets, or sometimes even anything at all.

Not saying the army will be bad, it seems like a straight improvement and they're already playable, but top of T1 is a stretch. 

[broche]

We will see. I was winning a fair share of  game with 10 ardboys doing 14 damages. I can garantee you that with the same Ardboys doing 40 i'll win much much more.

With Brutes at 140 I really doubt Ardboys will get an increase (10 points top) but that's true is still speculation. But fact stay that +1 damage is one of the 2 biggest damage buff in the game (the other one being reroll to hit reroll to wound)

[Heaven_lord]

Hi,

I have the opportunity to buy a nice army of Iron Jaws.

I plan to play competitively un 2x1k pts format.

Do you think this army has a potential for my needs ?

1 Mawcrusha boss 

1 Boss on foot 

1 Shaman 

1 Fungaloid Shaman 

1 Warchanter 

1 Aleguzzler Gargant 

10 brutes 

6 Goregruntas 

10 Ardboyz  

1 Geminids Endless Spell

Thanks !

[Seihoff]

Warscrolls updated on the web boyz! We merged into Orruk Warclans category.

I want to know what is the best weapon loadout for MBMK and gruntas now we have bonus on charge with the hackas... and if Gordrakk is better than the MBMK.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Seihoff

[Arkahn]

We must know the bonesplitterz lore but the Wurrgog prophet seems mandatory with his new warscroll ! 

Brutes are... hmm... a bit confused... 

Gruntas seems really good now, a real impact on charge, especially with the gore-hacka (sadly mine has choppa 😕) 

Gordrakk or MBMK choice will depend of the cost... but Gordrakk is just a prime MBMK now, everything the same but better and can target all Destruction unit... 

[Lanoss]

Same. All my Gruntas have choppas.....

whats confusing about brutes? They’re more or less the same but now 140pts! with all the buffs they’re a real mince unit. IM excited to see if they have a horde bonus. I DO wish they had separated brutes and Gruntas into 2 scrolls each but oh well...

 

Wurgogg and Warchanters baby!

[Arkahn]

6 minutes ago, Lanoss said:

whats confusing about brutes? They’re more or less the same but now 140pts! with all the buffs they’re a real mince unit. IM excited to see if they have a horde bonus. 

MSU brutes before were so strong with boss claw now they are less impactful but we have better bonuses from Waaagh ! allegiance, so lets see... 

In comparaison, Ardboyz are tankier and just a bit less deadlier, with better mobility, lets see if their cost changed... 

[Lanoss]

Yes, msu brutes were the go - with multiple boss klaws- but it was clumsy

Now I see it as a unit of 5 has 12 3/3/-1/1 attacks AND 7 4/3/-1/2 attacks 

BEFORE buffs 

[Seihoff]

The thing I like the less is the "moral obligation" of having 2 shields for every 5 ardboyz. That's 1 banner, 1 musician, 2 shields and 1 "normal" (or leader unit) per 5. The unit is going to look WEIRD in caps.

 

I prefer much more to have choppas or a big choppa on my models, they should have included the rule without the need of putting shields on da boyz

[PlayerJ]

7 minutes ago, Seihoff said:

The thing I like the less is the "moral obligation" of having 2 shields for every 5 ardboyz. That's 1 banner, 1 musician, 2 shields and 1 "normal" (or leader unit) per 5. The unit is going to look WEIRD in caps.

 

I prefer much more to have choppas or a big choppa on my models, they should have included the rule without the need of putting shields on da boyz

time to paint and glue on some shields to my boys, since there is no negative 

[broche]

Ardboys and Gruntas are now fantastic, we need to wait for point update, but if they stay at 140 i don't think there's any reason to take brutes. Brutes were streamlined, to only get +1 to hit instead of reroll and all the buff are hit bonus now. 

But both Ardobys and Gruntas with Warchanter are gonna be very very scary. Weirnob is really meh now. No more bonus to cast and dispel. Hopefully he'll get a point discount or he won't see much play.

[novakai]

if I am reading the Maw Krusha Rules correctly, you gain a wounds and attack for every model you slain at the end of the Combat phase, does that mean if you wipe out like 20 something unit you gain 20 wounds and attack?

[ShaneHobbes]

Just now, novakai said:

if I am reading the Maw Krusha Rules correctly, you gain a wounds and attack for every model you slain at the end of the Combat phase, does that mean if you wipe out like 20 something unit you gain 20 wounds and attack?

I'm pretty sure it only happens once. So if you kill 20 models you still only get one wound and one attack

[Aelfric]

If all the Ardboy banners, drums and shields are for every 5, does this mean the unit will be pointed in 5s and not 10s?

[broche]

13 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

If all the Ardboy banners, drums and shields are for every 5, does this mean the unit will be pointed in 5s and not 10s?

hum it's a possibility. It would be cool as it would give us cheap screen. But by 5 they'll cost at least 80 pts

[Aelfric]

2 minutes ago, broche said:

hum it's a possibility. It would be cool as it would give us cheap screen. But by 5 they'll cost at least 80 pts

I wouldn't mind the extra cost for the flexibility.  The box comes with 15 Ardboys, which leans towards it as well.  Might make filling battalions easier too.

[broche]

On another note, i think i'm gonna go for Gorehacka and choppa on Maw-Krusha. the 2'' on 8 attack at 3+ 3+ rend 1/2 is really nice. I don't care too much for the bouncing mortal

[Vergozen]

2 hours ago, PlayerJ said:

time to paint and glue on some shields to my boys, since there is no negative 

You could always just mount the shields to the backs of the models. That way it doesnt matter what weapons they are currently built with.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Vergozen

[Gothmaug]

37 minutes ago, Vergozen said:

You could always just mount the shields to the backs of the models. That way it doesnt matter what weapons they are currently built with.

It’s like the old Black orks “armed to the teeth” all over again. 

 

Id like to see the math breakdown on the brutes vs Ardboys once the book comes out and the allegiance abilities are known. Brutes are thematically supposed to be the backbone of the ironjawz army, with the ardboys just fancy camp followers. I have a sneaking suspicion that ardboys just outclassed brutes in terms of mathematical advantage in the game

[Malakithe]

38 minutes ago, Vergozen said:

You could always just mount the shields to the backs of the models. That way it doesnt matter what weapons they are currently built with.

Yep just slap the shields on their backs since all the attack profiles are the same. Give them double weapons and a shield for looks. 

Brutes are...strange...their weapon profiles are all over the place.

Looks like Ardboy hordes will be a thing.

The MBMK weapon profiles are a strange change. Gore-hacka/Choppa has 2 more attacks, 2" range, and same profile as the other. Way better then bouncing MW back. Unless there is a build similar to the Fyreslayers MW bouncing droth build.

Gruntas look better overall.

Warchanter is auto-include. Probably 2 of them.

FootBoss looks fine. Nothing special. Still slow af.

Weirdnob looks like a lateral change. Took away the + to casting but at the same time he wont hurt himself, blow up heads, and gets a second cast of Green Puke if he is babysitting some Ardboys. 

[Gothmaug]

I was hoping the foot boss and the savage big boss got a -2 rend. Oh well. 

[Malakree]

So initial impressions.

Where's the rend?

Destructive bulk, duff up da big fings, icon of gork, riptooth fist and command abilities all got nerfed to hell.

3 warchanters? Is that enough or do you need more...can you fit more?

Weirdnob...uh pretty ****** now, not as ****** as he looks but still ******.

Hope you didn't want more rend cost there ain't none.

Strength from victory is INSANE, seriously go read that ****** and notice what's missing.

Godrakk is the man, the myth, the biggest an baddest boss der is.

Brutes are alright, Footboss somehow got worse.

0goregruntas are...actually not terrible.

Ardboys are nuts, seriously nuts.

BRAVERY...******...SIX...FUUUUUCK

Still no rend.

 

In conclusion.

Gordrakk, 3 warchanters and as many ardboys as you can fit.

Or buy free cities because a dude with a pointy sword somehow has more rend than a massive ****** off Orruk.

[broche]

48 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Gordrakk, 3 warchanters and as many ardboys as you can fit.

Yep, exactly my orignial tought, but i think you can add some gruntas  

and/or use some bonesplitters as fast mover/cheap chaff

48 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Strength from victory is INSANE, seriously go read that ****** and notice what's missing.

extra wound/attack per combat phase?  clearly lightyear better than before, i would more rate good than insane

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by broche

[Malakithe]

Yeah the lack of rend is puzzling. How is a giant man sized jagged axe only marginally more deadly then stone weapons?