What I miss and what has replaced it

[daedalus81]

There are still a lot of oldbloods refusing to give AoS a fair shake even with points, because they perceive some significant loss to the rules.  So, I figured I would ponder my own feelings (and yours) on the rules changes and make a diagram of the differences between the systems.

 

Fleeing from charges (like)

Reason: This gave me a feeling of being clever and drawing my opponent into a trap.  However, a good player would recognize it and act accordingly. 
Replaced by: Combat order selection.  This is probably my favorite part of AoS.  The order in which you choose your combats has massive consequences and putting the right assets in the right places can cause your opponent to  make the wrong choice.

Fleeing from combat (like)

Reason: It was great to break a unit and have it run away, but honestly it rarely happened to any unit over 10 models. 
Replaced by: Battleshock has taken its place, which is less engaging in that sense, but still offers some benefit for winning.

Stand and shoot (indifferent)  

Reason: I never used this much and it didn't do much, honestly.
Replaced by: Shooting into combat (though some units can stand and shoot).  Ranged units no longer shoot when charged and have much shorter ranges.  For this reason, I think, shooting into combat is not such a huge issue.

Ranks (indifferent)  

Reason: Ranks were a way to bolster a unit and create a solid anvil or killing machine.
Replaced by: Rank bonuses were not really replaced.  We have less tangible benefits with ranks now, but they still exist - mostly in the form of weapon ranges.  We do get bravery bonuses for every 10 models.

Magic (like)  

Reason: Magic was a fun phase, but was really random and could often bear no fruit.  Otherwise it was still very enjoyable (to me).  Many others thought it was exclusively overpowered.
Replaced by: Magic is finally "coming back" with the Sylvaneth book.  More spell options should help give us some real choices.

Monster viability (dislike)  

Reason: Monsters that were expensive rarely saw the table.  If it didn't have regen or ward it wouldn't get taken.  This changed a little with End Times and combined profiles, which I liked.
Replaced by: Fully combined monster/rider profiles.

Accurate artillery (dislike)  

Reason: This is closely tied to the item above.  Armies without lots of options (WoC) felt this sting more than others.  Cannons and the like were pretty rough on us.
Replace by: Weapons that all roll to hit.  This was a suggestion for change back in 8th and it seems to be a good one.  Artillery is still strong, but can also be dealt with by killing crew.

To hit and to wound tables (like/indifferent)  

Reason: It was fun to try and manipulate weapon skill to force opponents to hit on 5s or strength to wound on 6s.  Sometimes this was actually an annoyance when you didn't take enough units that could deal with something like a sphinx or a steam tank.
Replace by: Independent to hit and wound.  Stronger units and weapons can do more damage.  Units no longer have a standard toughness, but special rules really shine here - the prime example being the Bastiladon.  There are also no longer very skilled fighters capable of deflecting blows and I haven't seen strong special rules to represent that yet, but i'm not certain it's necessary either.

Redirection (like/indifferent)  

Reason: Speed bumps and chaff were an essential part of the game to keep your opponent off the front line longer.  This was not an issue for armies that could simply shoot or magic the chaff off the board.
Replace by: I don't think this has a direct replacement.  Small wedge units can be used to slow down other units combined with inspiring presence to keep them on the board.

 

That's all I can think of at the moment.  What do you miss and do you think it has a good replacement in AoS?

[polarbear]

The biggest thing I miss is neat, "finished" units. It might be more of a mental association than anything. I miss finishing a 20-man regiment base and having that unit done forever. In AoS, I can just as easily finish a 20-person regiment, but it just looks like a blob to me that doesn't have the same identity or finished feeling. Perhaps that's on me to find a way to make my units feel more finished.

Rules-wise, I'm all for simplification. I mostly played Warhammer in 6th and couldn't jump back in during later editions because there were just too many rules to learn. Unfortunately I do feel AoS is on a path to get bloated and there are more simplifications they could make, even in the base 4 pages. 

Far prefer movement and shooting in AoS. Never liked wheeling and block movement. 

I much prefer the hitting, wounding and damage system of AoS. However, I find the dice modification rules of "6 or more" and the like a bit screwy with my head.

[daedalus81]

Ah yes, wheeling.

I'm not certain if I miss that.  I certainly felt like it was an engaging rule given blocks of troops.  Was it a good rule?  I suppose it was considering the format of the game back then.  Do I miss it now?  Not so much.

[mmimzie]

What i liked died a few editions back v.v. I loved being able to break a unit on the charge and have my cavalry keep riding through them into the next unit. That really felt like a sweeping advance.  Flanking and rolling through the flank was a big deal and it felt like you were caught with your pants down if this happend. Dealing with the aftermath was also just so cool.  Big units slowing down to turn to meet on coming forces. 

I quit when hordes started i don't rememebr when this was. Then last year i came back to 40k and missed fantasy the whole time.

 

Now i'm loving AoS. What AoS is.... it have so much freedom for good tactics. The rules are similar but they are tactically deep as i remember fantasy being. In AoS you can manipulate the board to your advantage.  Your movements force your opponent into bad situations if you do it right. Also you can make big mistakes. You can mess up piling in and end up with 4 or 5 guys "stuck" unable to pile in further reducing your attacks. I can really imagine it too as everyone's pressed up so close they can't really move. 

You can make tactical mistakes that last turns to undo. The fact that you can retreat units at any time is great, and you can retreat while also keeping combat in your favor. If you just retreat right out of range, but the rest of the enemy unit is in combat; you can force your foe into some hard pile in moves. If you wait to long to retreat though this can feel terrible as it'll be a turn or two before you reap the reward. 

[amysrevenge]

Hobby-wise

I really liked making movement trays by hand (out of plastic sheets, tin sheets, and 1/8" square plastic rod), and I don't do that any more.  Nothing has particularly filled that gap, but the rest of my hobby has sort of spread out so it doesn't really feel like anything is missing.

I also liked making my own bases out of thick plastic card, but it is too hard to cut smooth circles and ovals.

Gameplay-wise

The only thing I really miss is the Dwarf runic item system.  I don't particularly miss magic items for other armies, but the Dwarf one, especially the one from the 6th ed. book, was really enjoyable for me.

[Bowlzee]

51 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

The only thing I really miss is the Dwarf runic item system.  I don't particularly miss magic items for other armies, but the Dwarf one, especially the one from the 6th ed. book, was really enjoyable for me.

I can see them bringing this back. It's ripe for AoS!

[TrexPushups]

I would add the battleshock resistance per  group of 10+ models under the replacement for ranks

it maps to the combat bonus ranks gave during combat resolution in a rough sort of way. 

[bottle]

The only thing I really miss from WHFB was using the Magic Cards. I wish they would make decks for AoS. Maybe one with your Spell Lore, Traits and Artefacts for each faction as it's released.

[pforson]

I play KoW to get the Rank and File fix and enjoy AoS as a nice alternative fantasy game.

As such, I really like that AoS is so different. After all, variety is the spice of life.

3 hours ago, polarbear said:

The biggest thing I miss is neat, "finished" units. It might be more of a mental association than anything. I miss finishing a 20-man regiment base and having that unit done forever. In AoS, I can just as easily finish a 20-person regiment, but it just looks like a blob to me that doesn't have the same identity or finished feeling.

Agree 100%

Nothing beats a nice finished ranked up unit.

[Akempist]

I miss the lore and fluff....and Total Warhammer isn't making it any better.

I picked up Godbeasts after a glowing Heelanhammer review and couldn't even make it though the description/map of Aqshy.  It just does nothing to inspire me... just raises questions.  Space lizards, chained fireballs/worlds, seas of acid?  Who lives here? Isn't that acid just gonna fall off the floating island of ....  whatever.   Blegh.  </endoldmanrant>  

Otherwise the game itself is superior in my opinion.  Don't honestly miss anything about gameplay.

[daedalus81]

3 hours ago, TrexPushups said:

I would add the battleshock resistance per  group of 10+ models under the replacement for ranks

it maps to the combat bonus ranks gave during combat resolution in a rough sort of way. 

That's a good point.  I'll add that to the list.
 

Quote

The only thing I really miss from WHFB was using the Magic Cards. I wish they would make decks for AoS. Maybe one with your Spell Lore, Traits and Artefacts for each faction as it's released.

It might be a while.  Roundtree doesn't appear to be a fan of the little add-ons right now.

[daedalus81]

2 hours ago, Akempist said:

I miss the lore and fluff....and Total Warhammer isn't making it any better.

I picked up Godbeasts after a glowing Heelanhammer review and couldn't even make it though the description/map of Aqshy.  It just does nothing to inspire me... just raises questions.  Space lizards, chained fireballs/worlds, seas of acid?  Who lives here? Isn't that acid just gonna fall off the floating island of ....  whatever.   Blegh.  </endoldmanrant> 

I'm hoping the campaign does more to fill in that hole for people that find that part missing.  I never really worried about the setting in 8th.  Did my chaos warriors look cool?  Check.  Did I understand enough to place them in the world and understand their influence? Check.

[Flogger]

I stopped playing fantasy in 2011-2012 somewhere. WFB had just gotten so boring, barely any movement in the game and you could usually tell who was going to win when deployment was done, unless someone got a ridiculous spell through and killed everything. 

I played 40k competitively for several years, until GW destroyed that as well. But since Age of Sigmar is fantasy but skirmish variant it seemed like the perfect choice. I play warmahordes competitively and AoS for funzies.

The thing I've missed the most and why I completely love this game? SQUIGS!  

[Nico]

Quote

What i liked died a few editions back v.v. I loved being able to break a unit on the charge and have my cavalry keep riding through them into the next unit. That really felt like a sweeping advance.  Flanking and rolling through the flank was a big deal and it felt like you were caught with your pants down if this happend. Dealing with the aftermath was also just so cool.  Big units slowing down to turn to meet on coming forces. 

This is now cavalry plus a double turn.

[Chris Tomlin]

13 hours ago, Akempist said:

I picked up Godbeasts after a glowing Heelanhammer review

Is there any other sort of "review" at the moment? Not specifically Heelanhammer.

It may just be that for me personally I am finding it very difficult to get into the fluff. I had been immersed in the lore of the Old World since 4th edition and from a young age. I guess starting over just feels like a lot of effort (lazy, poor excuse I agree!) and I can't say I've found myself at all drawn in with what's out there at the moment - the exception being Flesh Eater Courts, the concept of which I think is genuinely brilliant.

I kind of think I should've just sucked it up and jumped in at the beginning, keeping track as the new fluff is released. However, inclination aside, I simply do not have the £££ for such a venture as they have been coming out so thick and fast - though I do actually think this is a good thing as it does populate this new setting with plenty of much needed material. Its just not for me at present.

That said, I love Age of Sigmar. The game is the best Warhammer I've played by some way and rules aside, I'm fully behind the current aesthetic direction as well. No looking back.

[Gaz Taylor]

12 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

That said, I love Age of Sigmar. The game is the best Warhammer I've played by some way and rules aside, I'm fully behind the current aesthetic direction as well. No looking back.

THIS!!!

I enjoyed 8th edition and all previous editions of Fantasy but they have gone now and we have Age of Sigmar and I'm enjoying it. It's a fun game to play and looks good. 

[Leviathus]

The only thing I don't like is the new Seraphon fluff. It's just so bland; all they do is appear, fight and fly off when the work is done. They don't "live" imho. I did like the idea that the Slann travelled in "spaceships", but the fluff is kinda unclear how and where they live now (they're/live in constellations? How does that work). Hopefully GW will sort that out in the future . Overall, I'm pretty OK with the high fantasy setting. I can get past some of the weird landscapes and the new map from the Season of War actually looks like a real livable world. That gives me hope for the future.

Gameplay wise, I never played any edition of WHFB, as I found it too daunting to get into. AoS is just so easy to get into; it's a breath of fresh air.

[Lucio]

What I miss about 8th edition?

Nothing, never played as the barrier to entry was massive, even small games needed 60+ miniatures

 

[Dave Fraser]

What I miss about 8th

the aesthetic of multiple blocks of ranked up units.  Admittedly I don't miss this from the tournament scene, outside of skaven virtually nobody ran multiple blocks of troops anymore but the armies in my display cabinets still look cool.

 

What I love about AoS

The aesthetic of individual models on rounds.  Units aren't all that but the individual models look great.

The current attitude of players/armies - non engagement, avoidance, cornering it and playing for a 10-10 doesn't really happen at the moment.  Scenarios are probably a large part of this as even if you killed nothing people have to participate in the game or they lose. 

 

What I don't love

potential for huge mismatches in armies which lead to non-games.  Sideboard helps with this so hope people retain this under Gen Handbook.

[mmimzie]

26 minutes ago, Dave Fraser said:

What I miss about 8th

the aesthetic of multiple blocks of ranked up units.  Admittedly I don't miss this from the tournament scene, outside of skaven virtually nobody ran multiple blocks of troops anymore but the armies in my display cabinets still look cool.

 

What I love about AoS

The aesthetic of individual models on rounds.  Units aren't all that but the individual models look great.

The current attitude of players/armies - non engagement, avoidance, cornering it and playing for a 10-10 doesn't really happen at the moment.  Scenarios are probably a large part of this as even if you killed nothing people have to participate in the game or they lose. 

 

What I don't love

potential for huge mismatches in armies which lead to non-games.  Sideboard helps with this so hope people retain this under Gen Handbook.

Summoning is more or less a sideboard 

[Soulsmith]

As great as ranked units look, I don't miss them. They could be absolute anathema to my painting drive. I feel I can personalise each miniature more knowing they are in skirmish.

[RossMHoward]

22 hours ago, bottle said:

The only thing I really miss from WHFB was using the Magic Cards. I wish they would make decks for AoS. Maybe one with your Spell Lore, Traits and Artefacts for each faction as it's released.

Add it to your Mordheim game