Using a Balewind Vortex to move your unit up 3"

[WoollyMammoth]

Just want to see how the community feels about this.

[Bjarni St.]

Stupid rule. Can't fault players for playing according to the rules though, especially clear ones. 

[Killax]

4 hours ago, WoollyMammoth said:

Just want to see how the community feels about this.

I don't see it as: inappropriate rules exploit.

I do see it as: inaccurate rules design.

As above, you can't fault players making use of it. When designing Warscrolls and Datasheets sometimes GW seems to have thought it through very much and in other cases not at all. This is an example of the latter. 

[CyderPirate]

Falls into the category of 'Feels cheesy/cheaty, so I won't do it, but its legal so I won't protest if an opponent does it (except maybe winding them up a bit)'.  

[Arkiham]

no different to...

• having units only slightly within the area of an AOE effect granting the other 99% of the unit the bonus effect. 
•  summoning a unit partially within range and the rest outside of it
• shooting a dudes feather in his cap and mortally wounding him. 

[Kramer]

56 minutes ago, CyderPirate said:

Falls into the category of 'Feels cheesy/cheaty, so I won't do it, but its legal so I won't protest if an opponent does it (except maybe winding them up a bit)'.  

This exactly. I wouldn't do it, agree bad design, so i checked inappropriate rules exploit. But shameful is too strong a word. And if my opponent is happy doing it... sure. 

You may have biased the poll a bit with the phrasing @WoollyMammoth  

 

[chord]

This could have easily been resolved, just release a new warscroll and have the units get pushed in a random direction (die roll, etc).  It's a tornado essentially nothing says it has to be in one direction only.

[svnvaldez]

2 hours ago, Kramer said:

You may have biased the poll a bit with the phrasing @WoollyMammoth  

 

^

[Twitch of Izalith]

I feel a lot better if its used that way rather than to take a gaunt summoner or Kroak out of reach of all my combat units - which with some list is all my units!!

I don't think that the Balewind actually adds anything to the game - its very powerfull for a couple of characters and pointless for many others.

Maybe if they changed it so you could unbind it in any hero phase it would be more interesting but as it is I would rather it just didn't exist.

[svnvaldez]

The balewind is a silly piece of scenery that has be in matched play for far to long. 

[Richelieu]

The only thing I dislike about the vortex is that there is no way to destroy it.  I would be perfectly happy with it if melee units had an out of some sort against it.   I very much agree with Arkiham.  To me the movement trick is just about maximizing the tools for which you've paid points to include in your army.

[Aginor]

Pushing a few models a few inches forward is not really a big problem with it.

If I had to improve I'd start somewhere else. Models on top are melee immune and the Vortex cannot be dispelled once it is summoned. That's much more of a problem.

Also you spend 100 points for using it and there is a good chance that the summon fails. And those few inches are not what you usually get it for anyway. You want it for the spell range.

So I voted for the second option. Absolutely legit and OK to do that. Not gamebreaking or cheesy at all. There is MUCH worse stuff in AoS.

[bsharitt]

Well I'd like to vote in the poll, but the wording doesn't work for me. I'm in the camp that wouldn't stop and opponent from doing it, but probably wouldn't do it myself because it feels a little skeevy(heck I won't even run a balewind vortex, because I think the rules are bit cheesy).

[MOMUS]

I think vortex is hated by a fair portion of the community, it's rules are very un-warhammery

[someone2040]

IMO if you want to fix the Balewind, you need to make it attackable in some way for melee only armies.

Perhaps something along the lines of:

When summoned models are only pushed to make room for the Balewind (removal of the 3" rule).

While a model is on top of the balewind, the base of the Balewind counts as the models base.

The balewind provides cover to the model on top of the vortex.

Enemy units attacking the wizard on top in melee suffer a -1 to their to-hit rolls.

When the wizard who summoned the balewind vortex is slain, the Balewind Vortex is removed from the battlefield.

 

It really needs a change to the warscroll in some manner though. But my suspicion is GW seems super reluctant to change existing Warscrolls outside Battletome updates, so we're likely just going to see it priced out of the game.

[WoollyMammoth]

Thanks for the replies

I'm not trying to fix all the issues with the balewind, simply gauging opinion on this tactic. Its clearly using something not as intended for a benefit. If your opponent pulls off a first turn charge because he got a free 3" due to balewind, it really sucks. You can use it to push summoned/ambushing units from 9" to 6", breaking the foundation of the fact that if you ambush in this way, you are putting yourself at a big risk.

There was an article on the GW site mentioning this, which I think gave it validity.  To me it seems like rules lawyering to exploit the game which I think is no good, but its too legitimate at this point to fault your opponent for doing it.

The wording is just to say, you think its appropriate or inappropriate. I struggled with the wording to try to avoid bias.




 

[tokek]

On a rules stupidity scale of 1(a normal dude) to 10(Vanguard Wing) I'd say the Balewind and all its rules are about an 8.5

While even sillier things exist in the game I'm not going to worry about it, the rules are actually very clear and by now everyone should know what it is and what it does. Play on.

[MrCharisma]

I think “it’s an expensive benefit if that’s the only reason you’re taking it”